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The Handloaders Bench > Metallic cartridge reloading > Blackpowder Metallic cartridges and Cast bullets > cast Lee bullet reloading data


cast Lee bullet reloading data
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steel13
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 Posted: 16 June 2008 09:35 PM

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So I got a bunch of new Lee molds (8), but I am having difficulty locating loading data for them. I also just bought Lee's second addition reloading book figuring that that would list them all. Wrong.
So I guess my starting point is going to be the min. Lyman load and match up the weight and profile as closely as possible. I assume I should be fine with that thinking, but what about tumble lubes? Do I do the same, matching weight and profile and not worry about what kind of grease grooves it has?
I would assume that Mr. Lee would have covered this somewhere such as Lyman and RCBS have, but where, what book? :confused:



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Charley
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 Posted: 17 June 2008 03:23 AM

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No big deal, differences in cast are not nearly as dramatic as jacketed bullets, IME. Find data for a bullet weight that is close, preferably the same weight, or a bit heavier, and use the start data, and work up from there.

For instance, if you have one of the 150 grain .358 bullets, start with 158 grain data, and work from there.



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steel13
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 Posted: 18 June 2008 03:47 AM

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ok  next question, is galvanized tin ok to use for bullet casting?



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Charley
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 Posted: 18 June 2008 12:36 PM

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Galvanized metal (n or anything containing zinc) is a very bad thing to get into your alloy. Zinc increases the surface tension of your alloy, and your molds won't fill out.



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wheezengeezer
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 Posted: 18 June 2008 02:05 PM

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are you planning to melt your lead in a can?   get a lead pot for the stovetop at least.



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steel13
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 Posted: 18 June 2008 04:27 PM

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Wheez, I am using a cast Dutch  oven for my pot over a Turkey deep fryer burner.

I work in a steel mill (hence the name) and am very familiar with dealing with molten metal. We are a 100% scrap furnace, instead of iron ore. So I have access to a lot of scrap ,i.e tin.
The galvanized scrap is easily identifiable, but the none coated stuff looks like rusty steel, and hard to pick out.
I knew that Zinc was a no-no in your melt but did not realize galvanized tin was coated with it
I have about 200#'s of soft lead that I want to use.

So I wonder if I should just add WW to my stuff to make it harder or try to find lino type to add or both.
Or can I oven treat straight lead or water quench it to stiffen it up?

My Lymans Cast book says that straight lead should only be used for front loaders or shot gun pumpkin balls.



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wheezengeezer
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 Posted: 18 June 2008 07:23 PM

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bullets will only HT with arsenic present.a wheelweight based alloy will do it.the easiest way to turn your soft lead into a hard alloy is to sell it.soft lead goes for more than ww.just add 2 to 3% tin to ww and you have a good alloy for most smokeless hg and rifle loads.refer to the lyman hand book for many combos to achive the mix you desire.



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steel13
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 Posted: 18 June 2008 09:15 PM

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Ok, thanks Weeze. So whats a good source for the tin?



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wheezengeezer
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 Posted: 19 June 2008 12:55 AM

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The lyman 3rd ed cast bullet manual is an invaluable source of info. follow the advice given.  For a source of tin,you need to comparison shop.  .some casters use roll solder.  I never have  .purchasing bar solder may be the best.  Midway does sell tin. Lyman #2 states a tin content of 5%.  Tin does not add anything to the alloy but castability. 2 to 3 percent is adequate.    I use lino to add antimony. Lino and mono have antimony which should be saved for a hard bullet. For large dia. Bullets like the 44 mag ,straight ww will work well.



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Charley
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 Posted: 19 June 2008 03:26 AM

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If you can find it a plumber's scrap box, 95/5 solder adds tin and antimony. Expensive new, that's why I'm a scrounger.



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wheezengeezer
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 Posted: 19 June 2008 11:39 AM

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95/5 solder is lead free.a good source of tin.it has a bit of copper in it but it doesnt hurt.might get more for the buck than 60/40.if you have to buy a new product pure tin from midway or other sources will be more consistent and may be cheaper.i have scrounged tin for years.at one time i blended about 50 lb into 1 batch to make all my tin addition consistent.when i make a batch of alloy i do it in a 200 lb batch so i can have a long run of alloy that is the same.check this link...  http://www.theantimonyman.com/  for solder alloys check this...  http://www.sra-solder.com/lead_free_solder.htm  for babbit metals check this... http://www.alchemyextrusions.com/babbitt/default.asp?source=overture  good source of lube...http://www.lsstuff.com/lube/index.html

Last edited on 19 June 2008 11:45 AM by wheezengeezer



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wheezengeezer
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 Posted: 19 June 2008 04:14 PM

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http://www.minemill.com/WAX-STICK-JOHNSON-140-pr-1057.html  this is the best bullet lube that i have used in the 44mag at up to 1800 fps.i used it for several years with plain base bullets,pan lubing and not sizing.it is a semisolid high pressure lube.not as sticky as a 50/50 lube.i hope to try it in the ol 06 with a 210 gc lyman at 2300 fps.i have also applied it with my fingers and used it for a sizing lube when using my lyman 310 tools.sorry to get off topic but since i mentioned lube in a link given i thought i would mention my favorite.it is also cheaper than regular lubes.



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steel13
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 Posted: 22 June 2008 02:56 PM

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Seems that just about everyone (or at least the ones writing books) has a different opinion about what the proper alloy ratios are for Boolits. That is unless you want to pay top dollar for Lyman #2. I bought an 8# bar from a local foundry that was 33 bucks, just to get a starting point.
I read in the Lee second Ed. that I can cast the pure lead I have into low velocity target loads, and add WW for faster stuff.
So I guess I just have to dive into this head first and see what happens. What do I have to lose.:shootfoot:



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rusty shackleford
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 Posted: 23 June 2008 02:51 AM

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Steel13: Are you casting for handgun or rifle? Wheel weights are all you need for handgun stuff. I have loaded hollow point cast bullets 20:1 with gas checks on them and driven them to 1300 fps with very little leading. They are .357 mag. and .44 mag.  I tumble lube all mine even then HP bullets.
steel13
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 Posted: 23 June 2008 03:07 PM

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I am just casting for handguns and carbines in pistol calibers for now.

I dont think I'll be able to justify spending the extra money on alloys and gas checks to produce rifle bullets of any great quantity. I may perhaps  get a 150-165 gr. 30 cal mold for my 300 savage 99, and use up that bar of Lyman #2  I got.



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wheezengeezer
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 Posted: 23 June 2008 04:10 PM

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if you want to save the cash a plainbase bullet cast from straight ww and pan lubed with this stick wax is bout as cheap as you can shoot.in my 44 mags,i shoot a 250k in front of 24 gr H110 and a 200 gr rnfp in front of 7 gr ww231.leading is not an issue.i have shot hundreds without any buildup.i havent even heard of anyone else using this for lube.doesnt get any better than good and cheap!!http://www.minemill.com/WAX-STICK-JOHNSON-140-pr-1057.html for the cheapest source for tumble lube..http://www.lsstuff.com/lube/index.html

Last edited on 23 June 2008 04:11 PM by wheezengeezer



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steel13
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 Posted: 24 June 2008 03:10 PM

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This topic originally started off with me trying to find load data for the bullets I intend to cast. And I believe I was stating my displeasure that I couldn't find any Lee specific data. Well my apologies Mr. Lee, it was right there in your book all along, along with jacketed bullets. :nut: I guess working night shift has thrown me for a loop this week.
Now that I've had a chance to read most of it , I am really impressed with Lee's no biased reloading tables. He's not trying to get you to buy this powder or that bullet, which it kind of nice, just the raw data on whatever particular cartrige your loading for.
He's not even segregating his cast bullet designs from the others. He just lists the cartrige, the cast bullet weight, and the approprite charge of several diffrent powder options.
This might be my "go to" reloading manual.



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wheezengeezer
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 Posted: 24 June 2008 04:07 PM

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the more generic the data,the less specific.  the first bullet i cast was a lee mould,somewhere around 1979.it was a gc 240 gr swc.the crimp groove was far forward on the bullet.the next bullet i cast was a rcbs 240 gr gc.the crimp groove was much farther back and gave at least 1/8 in more space in the case.with a top load using the faster pistol/shotgun powders,a substitution using the lee bullet could get you into overpressure country.what i am gettin at is the bullet,even with the same weight can be the biggest variation.that type of data needs to be used with a bit more caution.therefore i prefer bullet specific data when avaliable.



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Charley
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 Posted: 25 June 2008 03:00 AM

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Of course, that is why every data source has starting loads...



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wheezengeezer
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 Posted: 25 June 2008 11:46 AM

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Charley wrote: Of course, that is why every data source has starting loads...
exactly,but how many start at the top?i know of some who do especially a straight wall handgun such as the 357 or 44 mag.my point was even if you work your way to the top,a change in bullet ,even the same weight can create an excessive jump in pressure.the 2 bullets mentioned may have very similar engraving pressure,and a top load with a slow powder may be close to the same,but if a top load with a faster powder,then switching bullets and decreasing powder space will most likely result in a sharp rise in pressures.



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