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64Impala
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| Joined: | 11 January 2008 |
| Location: | Brooklyn, Wisconsin USA |
| Posts: | 37 |
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Posted: 18 February 2008 06:24 PM |
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Hi Guys -
As I mentioned in an earlier post, I think I've settled on the Lee 4 hole turret press to get me started with my reloading. I just haven't pulled the trigger yet in buying the equipment since I don't have enough brass saved up yet (only have about 600 empty brass .223/5.56) and Midaway has the kit on backorder anyways.
But in thinking about the reloading process, specifically related to the Lee turret or a progressive machine, it seems to me that the process assumes that you don’t have to trim the brass after resizing. With a turret or progressive, the process starts with putting a clean case in the machine, sizing/decapping, primer, powder, bullet/crimp.
Where in that process does case trimming come into play? Trimming happens after sizing, but it doesn’t make sense to have to run it through a sizing die twice (once to resize/ trim, then a second time to actually reload/prime)
Am I missing something? If can anyone with a lee turret comment on their procedure/steps for loading rifle brass?
Thanks Gents
____________________
From the movie "They Live"
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Charley
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| Joined: | 9 September 2005 |
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Posted: 18 February 2008 10:32 PM |
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Probably easiest to batch process thru sizing and trimming, THEN run everything thru progressively. In other words, size everythng first, then trim/debur as needed. Then you can prime, bell, charge, and seat bullets . If it makes you feel any better, you shouldn't need to trim every loading!
The Lee turret will load decent ammo, but do remember that aluminum presses do have a finite life span. I've got a Lee original turret that wore sloppy after about 25,000 rounds or so. If you plan on doing a lot of loading, I would suggest the Lee Classic turret press. It is cast iron, and should outlast most aluminum presses.
____________________
"You all can go to Hell, I'm going to Texas" David Crockett (and probably George Bush)
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64Impala
HB Full Member
| Joined: | 11 January 2008 |
| Location: | Brooklyn, Wisconsin USA |
| Posts: | 37 |
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Posted: 19 February 2008 03:48 AM |
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Hi Charley -
I guess that's where I'm getting hung up in the process (i'm probably making this more difficult in my head than it is). On the Lee Classic 4hole turret (with auto index), the sizing/decapping and consequent priming happens at the first station.
Now, if I were to size/trim cases in batches (assuming I needed to), once all that is done, I would put the readied case in the press, and it would go into the first station which would be the sizing/decapping die. Looking at how the lee safety prime system works, I think the case would have to be put into the sizing die fully in order to prime the case
So, working this out in my head, I guess my real question is..
Would there be an issue with putting the case back into the sizing die so it can be primed, even though its already been sized/trimmed?
Thanks for helping sort out my confusion. I think I may have mentioned this in an earlier post, but I'm a mechanical engineer and I tend to make this WAY more complicated than they need to be. Its a curse I have to live with 
Last edited on 19 February 2008 03:56 AM by 64Impala
____________________
From the movie "They Live"
"I have come here to chew bubble gum and kick ass, and I'm all outta bubble gum"
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wheezengeezer
addicted handloader
| Joined: | 16 July 2007 |
| Location: | Jeddediah Jones Swamp, Kansas USA |
| Posts: | 609 |
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Posted: 19 February 2008 11:47 AM |
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| i always try to trim newly aquired brass.not just to make it uniform but some brass has a fairly rough mouth and if it is not smoothed up neck splitting will happen in short order.initial case prep is an important step.
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I was raised in the 50's on gunpowder and jackrabbits.salt and pepper wooda made'em taste better
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Charley
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| Joined: | 9 September 2005 |
| Location: | San Antonio, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 2207 |
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Posted: 19 February 2008 12:37 PM |
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I think I may have mentioned this in an earlier post, but I'm a mechanical engineer and I tend to make this WAY more complicated than they need to be. Its a curse I have to live with
Well, just concentrate for now on reading the clock, and don't worry about designing and building it. That can come later...
You can run the case back into the die, or just back the die out or even remove it, and leave that station blank. I tend to remove the die, that way I don't need the extra steps of lubing and recleaning cases.
I know, somw will complain about setting and adjusting the sizing die again, but it's never been that much trouble to me.
____________________
"You all can go to Hell, I'm going to Texas" David Crockett (and probably George Bush)
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saddlesore
addicted handloader
| Joined: | 6 February 2005 |
| Location: | Colorado Springs, Colorado USA |
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Posted: 19 February 2008 03:23 PM |
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As Charley states. +1
Don't know if you also have a single stage press to go along with the progressive, but very three loadings or so I run my brass through one with universal decapping die to take out the prime. I then clean primer pockets, and check of trimming is required and do so. Most standard trimmers have spuds that must be used before brass is sized anyway. Although you can buy spuds that are undersized.
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wheezengeezer
addicted handloader
| Joined: | 16 July 2007 |
| Location: | Jeddediah Jones Swamp, Kansas USA |
| Posts: | 609 |
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Posted: 19 February 2008 04:06 PM |
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saddlesore wrote: As Charley states. +1
Don't know if you also have a single stage press to go along with the progressive, but very three loadings or so I run my brass through one with universal decapping die to take out the prime. I then clean primer pockets, and check of trimming is required and do so. Most standard trimmers have spuds that must be used before brass is sized anyway. Although you can buy spuds that are undersized.
and that is a very good reason to have more tha just a progressive press.a single stage is great for those stand aside jobs.
____________________
I was raised in the 50's on gunpowder and jackrabbits.salt and pepper wooda made'em taste better
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Charley
Administrator
| Joined: | 9 September 2005 |
| Location: | San Antonio, Texas USA |
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Posted: 20 February 2008 03:07 AM |
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| The nice thing about a turret press is you can use it as a single stage with the capabilty of setting up extra dies, or you can use it as a semi-progressive press. As a beginner, and not knowing just how bad the handloading bug is going to bite, I wouldn't spend additional money for a second press, just use the turret. You can always add or upgrade down the line.
____________________
"You all can go to Hell, I'm going to Texas" David Crockett (and probably George Bush)
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sako06
addicted handloader
| Joined: | 22 July 2007 |
| Location: | California USA |
| Posts: | 494 |
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Posted: 20 February 2008 03:38 AM |
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| I have a single stage RCBS press with a special die used for my belted 300win mag cases.My main reloading press is a Dillon RL550B which I use for rifle & pistol.
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VA Bigbore
HB Full Member
| Joined: | 23 December 2007 |
| Location: | Virginia USA |
| Posts: | 33 |
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Posted: 21 February 2008 01:05 AM |
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64Impala wrote: Hi Guys -
As I mentioned in an earlier post, I think I've settled on the Lee 4 hole turret press to get me started with my reloading.
But in thinking about the reloading process, specifically related to the Lee turret or a progressive machine, it seems to me that the process assumes that you don’t have to trim the brass after resizing. With a turret or progressive, the process starts with putting a clean case in the machine, sizing/decapping, primer, powder, bullet/crimp.
Where in that process does case trimming come into play? Trimming happens after sizing, but it doesn’t make sense to have to run it through a sizing die twice (once to resize/ trim, then a second time to actually reload/prime)
Am I missing something? If can anyone with a lee turret comment on their procedure/steps for loading rifle brass?
Thanks Gents
64Impala,
I have a 4-hole Lee Turret press and a single stage Lee "O" frame. I generally decap on my single stage, tumble clean, resize on the single stage, and prime with the Lee hand primer. Use the turret press in conjunction with the Lee auto powder feed and the Lee powder-thru small rifle die.
As mentioned, you can remove the auto-index pin and use the turret press as a single stage, which you will have to do with anything taller than .223 anyway because it won't index with longer cartridges. You need to lube the casings when resizing and does not work very well to load them directly anyway without cleaning it off. This holds true with any bottle-neck cases and Steel dies.
Loading is a process. You need to follow order or you will have issues. Even with new un-fired brass I always lube, size, chamfer, debur, tumble, and then trim. If you do this with all your new or once-fired brass you should be able to get several loadings out of it before you need to trim again, unless you are loading big boomers which will stretch the brass a lot more per firing.
I load everything from 9mm to 300 WinMag on my turret press. I do resize and deprime on my single-stage, (except for straight-walled pistol cartridges and carbide dies), but could just as eaily do it in my turret. I think you will find it a very easy to use press set up and totally acceptable for any loading you intend to do unleass you are planning on making wildcat cartridges where you need a strong press to form new cases. Lee has always been very helpful if I had any questions or needed any replacement parts.
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sako06
addicted handloader
| Joined: | 22 July 2007 |
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Posted: 21 February 2008 06:24 AM |
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| I use a Wilson Tool to trim my cases.
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fornra
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| Joined: | 27 February 2008 |
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Posted: 2 March 2008 04:00 PM |
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I use the Lee cutter and lock stud in a drill for most all my trimming, I also trim before camfering and deburing, otherwise would have to do it twice. I also use the Lee collet size die whenever possible so no lube is present at all.
I don't need to trim my 223 and 308 cases very often since I get the best accuracy at below maximum pressure.
Moderate pressure=less case stretching=less trimming=longer case life=longer barrel life and better accuracy in most cases.
There are some exceptions like shooting in those 1000yd matches where maintaining supersonic speed requires a careful choice of bullets launched at max velocity.
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Drygulch
HB Full Member
| Joined: | 10 April 2008 |
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Posted: 6 June 2008 02:52 AM |
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Zombie, The lee Classic four station is a steel cast press, and the ram is MUCH larger in diameter than the smaller press, which does wear out after around 20,000 rounds. I,m trying to get a lower base from Lee or maybe having the smaller press reamed out and install bushings.
Rod
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Drygulch
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Posted: 6 June 2008 03:23 AM |
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Bigbore, 64 Impala has it right, I have never had to trim straight wall pistol cases, now long tapered ones and bottlenecks are differant. Usually after four re-loads, I check them after sizing, then trim them if needed and put them in plastic baggies and mark them. Some cases have been re-loaded more than eight times. Trimmed cases do two things, insure a constant crimp and prevent the gun from blowing up. A stretched case may chamber, but if too long may not allow the bullet to be released creating excessive pressure. I use a cheap $20,00 digital from Harbor Freight and it works great. Also a dummy case set aside serves a good purpose.
PS: Had a 64 SS H/T in 69, best car I ever had! 250 hp, 327, rochester 4G carb and 2 spd powerglide. White interior w/metallic blue paint.
Rod
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Drygulch
HB Full Member
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Posted: 7 June 2008 01:01 AM |
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Checked with Lee today, a NEW BASE(aluminumn) for the lee turret(old style) is only$15.00, this way I won,t have any down-time, I could take the old base, ream and bushing it and keep it for a spare. I may buy the LPS primer kit complete with new ram etc, for 28.99 from Midway, PN 152501.
Rod
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Drygulch
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Posted: 13 June 2008 12:24 AM |
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Drygulch wrote: Checked with Lee today, a NEW BASE(aluminumn) for the lee turret(old style) is only$15.00, this way I won,t have any down-time, I could take the old base, ream and bushing it and keep it for a spare. I may buy the LPS primer kit complete with new ram etc, for 28.99 from Midway, PN 152501.
I Ordered the base, came in very quickly. all changed out in less than one hour. The base did not have the pin holes threaded, so I used the old pins and just ran them in with a 7/16 wrench cutting new threads.
Rod
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nksmfamjp
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| Joined: | 29 June 2008 |
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Posted: 20 July 2008 10:44 PM |
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Charley wrote: I think I may have mentioned this in an earlier post, but I'm a mechanical engineer and I tend to make this WAY more complicated than they need to be. Its a curse I have to live with
+1 there. It is a curse, but a good one, once you harness it's power!
Anyways, I load progressive. I trim fired brass in my Wilson case trimmer. As an engineer, you will love it because it HOLDS THE CASE RIGHT. I'm screaming because that is misunderstood by most case trimmer manufacturers. It is also pretty sweet that they got the case support and cutter angles right for easy hand trimming without chatter.
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Charley
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Posted: 20 July 2008 10:57 PM |
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nksmfamjp wrote: Charley wrote: I think I may have mentioned this in an earlier post, but I'm a mechanical engineer and I tend to make this WAY more complicated than they need to be. Its a curse I have to live with
+1 there. It is a curse, but a good one, once you harness it's power!
Anyways, I load progressive. I trim fired brass in my Wilson case trimmer. As an engineer, you will love it because it HOLDS THE CASE RIGHT. I'm screaming because that is misunderstood by most case trimmer manufacturers. It is also pretty sweet that they got the case support and cutter angles right for easy hand trimming without chatter.
I was quoteing 64Impala, for the record, I am NOT a mechanical engineer. I'm just a lowly little entomologist, I don'ts know nothin' about no machines...
____________________
"You all can go to Hell, I'm going to Texas" David Crockett (and probably George Bush)
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sako06
addicted handloader
| Joined: | 22 July 2007 |
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Posted: 21 July 2008 03:14 AM |
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| Nice write up I've tried to explain that to other reloaders.
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