| Posted: Sat Mar 5th, 2005 02:54 PM |
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Timberghozt
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Is there a common amount of poundage torque setting when installing a barrel on a Rem700?or on a Mauser 98 action.?
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| Posted: Sat Mar 5th, 2005 04:34 PM |
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longhunter
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Timber, its not so much torque as it is thread crush, which is typically .002", or two thousandths of an inch. This is figured in when you determine the headspace for your particular rifle and barrel. An example for a mauser action follows: using a depth mic, you determine that the distance from the receiver ring to the bolt face is .740. The threaded shank of your barrel is .632 from the breech to the shoulder of the barrel. Subtract .632 from .740 which leaves .108. Subtract your thread crush of .002, leaving .106. This is the distance that your "Go" headspace gage will stick out of the chamber when you are finished reaming it. Apply a good anti seize lube to the barrel threads, and carefully screw the barrel into the action. Back off the action wrench and barrel vise a couple times to help seat the barrel fully. Insert the stripped bolt and make sure that it closes without hitting the barrel extension. Insert a Go gage into the chamber and attempt to close the bolt. It should close fully with no pressure. Next put your go gage in the chamber and try to close the bolt. It should stop no more than 1/2 inch from its final locked position. do not force the bolt as this will ruin the chamber and you will have to start all over again. I got this info from The Gun Digest book of Riflesmithing, which I bought 9 years ago when I rebarreled a couple mausers with pre threaded short chambered barrels. Been a great source of info and its relatively inexpensive. Hope this helped.
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| Posted: Sun Mar 6th, 2005 02:26 PM |
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Timberghozt
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Thanks a bunch longhunter.That clarifies a few things.I`ve been reading Kuhnhausens Mauser 98 book but I haven`t dwelved deep into his rebarrelimg pages yet.
Fifty,any tips regarding the 700`s and rebarreling for extreme accuracy?
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"He who fights with monsters might take care, lest he thereby become a monster; For if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - F.Nietzche
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| Posted: Sun Mar 6th, 2005 08:19 PM |
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HondoJohn6508
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Next put your go gauge in the chamber and try to close the bolt. It should stop no more than 1/2 inch from its final locked position...... longhunter, I think you meant to say " NO GO GAUGE" rather than go gauge. longhunter wrote: Timber, its not so much torque as it is thread crush, which is typically .002", or two thousandths of an inch. This is figured in when you determine the headspace for your particular rifle and barrel. An example for a mauser action follows: using a depth mic, you determine that the distance from the receiver ring to the bolt face is .740. The threaded shank of your barrel is .632 from the breech to the shoulder of the barrel. Subtract .632 from .740 which leaves .108. Subtract your thread crush of .002, leaving .106. This is the distance that your "Go" headspace gage will stick out of the chamber when you are finished reaming it. Apply a good anti seize lube to the barrel threads, and carefully screw the barrel into the action. Back off the action wrench and barrel vise a couple times to help seat the barrel fully. Insert the stripped bolt and make sure that it closes without hitting the barrel extension. Insert a Go gage into the chamber and attempt to close the bolt. It should close fully with no pressure. Next put your go gage in the chamber and try to close the bolt. It should stop no more than 1/2 inch from its final locked position. do not force the bolt as this will ruin the chamber and you will have to start all over again. I got this info from The Gun Digest book of Riflesmithing, which I bought 9 years ago when I rebarreled a couple mausers with pre threaded short chambered barrels. Been a great source of info and its relatively inexpensive. Hope this helped.
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| Posted: Mon Mar 7th, 2005 12:01 AM |
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Fiftydriver
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Timberghozt,
For extreme accuracy, there is as much work needed to me performed on the receiver as there is the actual barrel.
For extreme accuracy, that being playing with the 1/4 moa range with a sporter rifle, you will need to do the following proceedures:
-Recut the receiver threads until they are totally trued to teh same axial alignment as the receivers bolt way. This will require dialing in the receiver using a multi-point dialing in process to remove any conial effect in the receiver. Dialing in on one point will not do this.
-Recut the bolt lug locking recesses in the receiver while the receiver is still dialed in for truing the threads.
-Square the receiver face.
-True the baring surface, leading surface, bolt nose diameter, bolt nose leading surface and botl face again using a multi point dialing in system on the bolt.
-Lap the freshly cut bolt lugs in to 100% contact to at least a 600 grit finish, I generally go to an 800 grit polish.
Now for the barrel:
-Dial in the barrel so the muzzle and breech are both running true on axis.
-Cut the barrel shank true to the axis of the bore, not to the outside diameter of the barrel.
-Thread the barrel to a class three thread fit with the freshly cut receiver threads. As stated before, ALWAYS use anti-seize compound on the threads. This is critical with a stainless barrel but very important wity any barrel.
It is important to note that only a lathe that is properly set up with perfectly aligned tailstock, horizontally and vertically will allow a true class three thread fit to be cut. If the set up is not perfect, even the smallest amount of taper will result in a lower quality thread fit. This is critical to consistant extreme accuracy from one rifle to another.
-You must use chambering reamers that have interchangable live pilots so that you can fit these pilot bushing perfectly to the bore size insuring a chamber that is true to the axis of the bore.
-Also, the muzzle must be cut with these same live piloted cutters to insure a perfectly concentric muzzle.
You must also use a recoil lug that is proven to be uniform in thickness. If not, all teh precision machining you have just performed will be for not because when you torque the barrel down on the uneven lug, the axial alignment of the barrel and receiver will be off, basically offereing you no better axial alignment then most factory rifles.
Spend the $30 to get a custom aftermarket lug that is surface ground and uniform in thickness to less then 0.0002". I use Hollands. The thickness really does not matter. There are lugs from factory thickness up to .5" thick. The really thick lugs are not needed and require alot of milling on the stock to fit.
I use Hollands because they are extreme quality, they have tapered sides for easy removal from bedding and they are not overly thick at .250" requiring only minimal opening of the stock to work well. Very cheap investment for extreme accuracy.
On the barrel bolt nose recess, make sure you have 0.005" clearance for the bolt nose inside the recess as well as 0.005" clearance between the barrel shank and the leading surface of the bolt locking lugs. The bolt nose diameter should be 0.005" smaller in diameter then the diameter of the recess in the barrel allowing 0.0025" clearance all around the bolt.
This is about as tight as you want to get and still not have problems with debris getting in this area causing accuracy problems. This is dramatically tighter then a factory recess. This tight bolt nose recess will keep the bolt in axial alignment with the bore if you do not wish to sleeve the bolt body.
Finally for assembling the rifle, use plenty of anti-seize compound. I use Brownells barrel assembly paste, it works very well, I also send a jar home with customers to use on their highly polished, lapped bolt lug surfaces after every cleaning.
Run the receiver up tight to the barrel a couple times to work in the threads and compound and then tighten to around 80 ft/lbs of torque. This is not a hard rule to follow. I have used as little as 50 ft lbs and as much as 140 ft lbs and in a properly fitted receiver and barrel, they both work fine. I generally hit 80 ft lbs but you will hear 100 ft lbs also stated often. Whatever youlike.
It is very important to not use barrel torquing to adjust headspace measurements. This is a common practice and just shows the poor quality of work by the machinest. If the headspace is a little to long, pull the barrel and set it up in the lathe and face off a bit of the barrel shoulder, barrel shank length and also do not for get to adjust the bolt nose recess depth if needed.
If you are a couple thou short in headspace, I have found taking a very light pass on the bolt locking lugs, generally 0.001" less then you need for correct HS will be about right after you lap the lugs in again.
Take the time needed to get a perfect product and you will never be unhappy with the results even if you need to spend a couple more hours of machining to get it.
Good Shooting!!
Kirby Allen(50)
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| Posted: Mon Mar 7th, 2005 12:35 AM |
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bea175
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My son is in the Gunsmith School in Lakewood Colorado and will be finished in Sept. I am paying his way so my gunsmith work will be free . The Colorado School of Gunsmithing is one of the better schools. He just built a 264 Win Mag on the LH Montana Action and barrel . ( Kind of off thread subject ) , but it is thread crush and inch pounds when screwing the barrel on , but there is much more to building accurate rifles than just screwing the barrel on . The barrel must be straight with the action and not screwed on crooked. I believe the reason a lot of factory rifles are not accurate and never will be is because the barrel is chambered from the wrong end and the bullet should be going in the same direction the barrel was rifled . Precision fit is the key to building a accurate rifle.
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| Posted: Mon Mar 7th, 2005 12:43 AM |
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longhunter
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My bad Hondo, ya caught me slipping!!
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| Posted: Mon Mar 7th, 2005 02:16 AM |
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HondoJohn6508
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longhunter,
Simply a case of fingers slow - brain fast!!! So please watch my posts for the same predicament that occasionally afflicts this ol' feller! I need all the help I can get, neighbor!
Ol' John....
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Mark Twain said it right - "There is no such thing as too much good whiskey."
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