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.243Win Vs .257 roberts.
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243 win or 257 bob?
   
   
   
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 Posted: Thu Feb 17th, 2011 11:43 AM
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Aussie Mick
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Ok well here we go,

I own a .222 rem for light varmint work, i own a 30-06 for the rest.

I am thinking of either buying or building a .257 bob.

I used to have a .243 but it wouldnt meet my accuracy expectations so i sold it, (the buyer is very happy with 1&3/4 inch groups).

So my dilemma is, do i persever with another .243 or try the "bob". 

Ammo availability is not an issue, i have dies for both.

I am thinking of 75gn - 90gn projectiles, so barrel twist rates would be apreciated too.

(accuracy permitting, I really would like Sub MOA) For use on all intermediate sized game, roughly equal to your Coyotes, Goats, and pigs, with kangaroo's (yum) and rabbits just for fun/fertiliser.

As always, thanks for your comments and thoughts in advance.

Mick



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 Posted: Thu Feb 17th, 2011 12:49 PM
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klallen
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morning, aussie mick.

truth be told, i think the determining factor between these two as a varminter is simply which caliber would you rather be shooting.

the .257 does kinda fill the gap between the .222 and .30-06 marginally better but don't know if that's really a factor in the decision making process.

i use nosler ballistic tips in my varminters and just doing a quick look at some of the numbers, performance wise, i don't know if there would be an on varmint performance advantage from one to the other. the .257's case is a little over 2 10th's longer but that really don't seem to equate much into a noticable increase in performance.  at least with printed nosler data.

the .243 can indeed be a scary accurate cartridge so i wouldn't count it out based solely on experience you had with one rifle. you'll find a heap load of guys on here shooting it with good results.  mine has shot 55 - 80 gr. ballistic tips with accuracy allowing varminting out to and exceeding 600 yds.  going to start work on a 90 gr. accubond load once we get the snow melting come spring time.

if i were getting a rifle put together, i'd probably opt for a 1:10 twist in either a .243 or .257 caliber custom barrel. would be fine for the midweight bullets you're talking about using now and still allow the use of the heavier stuff down the line if i ever wanted to shift things up.

so i guess my choice     ...     i love my ruger m77 mark II vt .243 and never owned a .257roberts     ...     so i guess by default, i'd stick with what i have.  lol.  i expect either would serve your needs, though.

have fun with the decision making process.

k



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 Posted: Thu Feb 17th, 2011 02:09 PM
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BEAR
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If all I was going to do was shoot small varmints, then the 243, if anything bigger than Pd or groundhogs, then the 257.

The 257 will do everything the 243win will do and a little more. the 257 will shoot a heavier bullet, which is a better deer cartridge.

The 257 Roberts got the feet kicked out of it by the Winchester media blitz in the late '50 early '60s. It was the gun mag writers child.

Having said all that, I have a 257 Roberts and a 243 Win. The 243 was one of my first guns, and I got a heavy barrel model (L579) as I knew it would become a varmint only rifle after a few years.

You can't lose with either.



 Posted: Thu Feb 17th, 2011 02:50 PM
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fryboy
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hmmmm... in factory form almost the same performance so it boils down to nit pickin' and personal preference , as stated a 257 can be used with a slightly larger bullet giving it a slight edge but that also suffers as here there are far far more 6 mm bullets available , and as klallen pointed out there isnt that much of a increase in performance using the varmit type lighter bullets and more powder , unlike many i will and do use the .243 for deer ( as always shot placement is everything as well as knowing what your bullet will do ) to be fair comparing the 243 and the 257 isnt fair ( honestly ) one should compare the 257 to the 6mm/244 rem but again there it's the same thing , the 25 bore shoots slightly heavier bullets and the 6 mm shoots lighter bullets faster , from the tables i have seen and thru reading cartridges of the world they say that 257 bob does benefit from being ackley improved which almost puts it in the 25-06 class ( close ) personally i'm really fond of my 243's and wouldnt trade them for any 25 caliber ( but dont offer 6.5's cuz then i'd have to think about it and it'd hurt me head )



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 Posted: Thu Feb 17th, 2011 03:58 PM
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BEAR
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win max bullet is usually the 100 gr...257 top bullet is the 120 grain.

got to disagree, that is a 25% increase in bullet weight...that is not a slight edge. Same as shooting a 150 out of the 270 vs the 180 oout of the '06. significant bullet weight increas. yep, there are some 105 grains 6mm and some 125 gr .257 but there is always a significant bullet weigh max between the two.

And the roberts +P loads are always faster than the 243 loads untill you get below 70 grains, and then the word insignificant does apply.

remember, I'm not bumming the 243, just stating the 243 will never be the big game cartridge that the 257 robert
is.

Please do not start the 270-06 poll. LOL
:lol:



 Posted: Thu Feb 17th, 2011 04:25 PM
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fryboy
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ummmm 20% .....but for varmit bullets ( which are lighter weight and the intended recipient ) that insignificant part does apply ,as would supply and availability of said bullets this is where the 6 mm excels IMHO ,in theory they state that barrel life is "x" pounds of powder , ie; if i'm burning more and getting close to the same results then the one using more powder would have a shorter barrel life , either barrel isnt hard to burn out - especially with top loads ( or +p ) and hard shooting in a varmit town ( shooting smart and cooling the barrel helps in this case for a good example compare the 220 swift to the 22-250 yes there's a faster velocity but at a price )while one hears a bit about the 6mm x.284 one doesnt hear much about the 6mm-06 ( for practical purposes almost the same except for length )
as for 270 vs. 30-06 ..neither give me a 6.5 anyday of the year instead !!

edit for add ... to be fair most common loads for the 243 either have 70-80-ish grain bullets or 100 , the 257 bob has 87 or 117 grainers custom bullets can be had for both , in 6mm up to and including 115 grainers and as light as 55 the 25's in up to about 156 grains down to about 75 grains , the heavier bullets of course could benefit from a custom twist , a look at the 6mmbr page doesnt show too many 25 calibers [shrugz]



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 Posted: Thu Feb 17th, 2011 09:48 PM
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williamwaco
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Six of one. Half dozen of the other.

You will use a little ( inconsequential ) bit less powder loading the .243.

There is absolutely NO DIFFERENCE in the accuracy potential of one over the other. Accurach depends FIRST on the shooter, Then on the rifle. ( Assuming carefully tuned loads.)

Either one is fully capable of 1/2" in a sporter weight rifle and less in a varmit weight rifle.

Buy the first one you find that you really like. You will not be disapointed with either.

That said - you really dont need either, you know?

If I were you, assuming you are not going after any thing as large as a small deer, I would get a 22-250.

Yes, I have owned and hunted varmits with all three.



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 Posted: Thu Feb 17th, 2011 11:21 PM
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RaySendero
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Mick,

Based on your criteria, I voted for the 257 Roberts!

But if I already had a 222 and an 06, I'd build a bolt action scoped rifle in a 25/06.

 



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 Posted: Fri Feb 18th, 2011 12:56 AM
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shortbolt
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Nothing wrong at all with a .243. Only lost 1 deer using one. And have killed several plus a couple turkeys at 290+yards.

I'm in the process of a .257 Roberts myself. Its just everything a .243 is and a bit more without recoil. Which is good (?) on bad shoulders.



 Posted: Fri Feb 18th, 2011 07:11 AM
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Aussie Mick
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Thanks for the input gentlemen, good to see some enthusiasm :)

The rifle (when i buy/build it) will be my everyday walk around gun, hence the 75gn - 90gn projectile, I will (could) potentially meet anything from Pig to Red Deer, maybe fallow if i end up going on a holiday to the right places.

As a varminter, well even my 30-06 has appreciable results on small furry animals. But, i like something different, so the bob may just get the nod at this stage.

I dont really like the 22-250 - not to take anything away from the accuracy of the cartridge, I just dont really like the "high pitched" crack.  :lol:

Mick

 

Edited for dyslexic fingers

Last edited on Fri Feb 18th, 2011 07:15 AM by Aussie Mick



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 Posted: Fri Feb 18th, 2011 12:17 PM
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Charley
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Never really could warm up to the .243. I've had at least three of them over the years, and always traded them away. I do like the .257 Roberts, though, and plan on always having at least one of them.



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 Posted: Fri Feb 18th, 2011 02:01 PM
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short bolt, if you have not yet committed $ to the 257, and you have a 243, then you might want to consider the 260 for your deer gun. I have the 243, 257, and the 260. My 260 weight 5#+ and it has almost the same recoil as the 243 (nothing really).

The 260 Rem is 6.5 and is based upon a necked up 243 case so it fits the short action perfectly; whereas the 257 really needs a longer action.

Just my thoughts. deer killed with all of these, but mostly anylonger with the 260.



 Posted: Fri Feb 18th, 2011 04:04 PM
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My vote is for the .257 bob. I couldn't really tell you why, except to say I just love that cartridge. I've owned two. One I sold, the other I will probably be buried with. I use 75, 100, and 120 grain bullets depending on what i'm after. The 75's really do pretty much anything smaller than a deer, but I like to practice shooting long range and I've found the 100's to be the best for that.

Seriously, though, nothing wrong with the .243, but if it were me it would be between .257 and 6mm remington.



 Posted: Sat Feb 19th, 2011 01:17 PM
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Well, there is a good argument for getting both to relieve the stress and anxiety of not owning the other. :wink:  I voted for the .243.

My actual decision if I didn't own either would depend on what I really wanted it for.  If it's a groundhog, coyote shooter most of the time, and an occassional deer or antelope, the .243 might be best.  If I wanted to shoot regularly at varmits to be ready for deer and antelope season, I would probably grab a .257.  If it was my only large centerfire rifle, GASP!!, the Roberts without a doubt.

 



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 Posted: Mon Feb 21st, 2011 06:40 PM
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I have two rifles in each of he rounds in question. The Winchester M70 in .243 is a tack driver with evertyhing I've run through it. The Ruger #1A is at best a 1.25" rifle and i haven't gotten to do any better with anything I've tried. :sad: 

On the other hand, the Ruger #1B .257 Robt. is a sub-MOA rifle with everything I've run through it. Both Rugers BTW have those contract Wilson barrels everybody says are so bad. The Winchester M70 Featherweight is at best a 1.25" rifle with the barnes TSX although 100 gr. Sierras hit closer to the one inch mark Forgt about 120 gr. bullets in that gun. It just will not shoot them into decent groups at all. My ex-son in law has that same rifle, the Featherweight in .257 Bob and his is sub-MOA with everything he runs through it. Just the luck of the draw I guess. I'll just have to tinker a bit more with mine.

Just some thoughts on that Winchester M70 .243. According to the serial number, it was made in late 1968 or early 1969. The gun is heavy. My wife likes to shoot that gun and considers it hers, more or less. But she feels it's way too heavy for her. I piccked up a Winchester Featherweight stock and put it on the .243. The rifle shoots like crap. :sad: My wife absolutely loves the weight now so what to do. I put it back in the original stock and it is again a tackdriver. She's not happy. She just might end up appropriating my .257 Bob. :sad: I figure if I can get it to shoot 1.5" or les in the Featherweight stock that it will work for deer and antelope.

While having rifles that are sub-MOA at the range is quite cool and great fo the ego, I have not seen any bench rests out in the field. :confused: maybe we should be spending more time shooting from hunting positions than worrying about bug holes on a piece of paper. :wink:

Paul B.



 Posted: Mon Feb 21st, 2011 09:15 PM
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DesertMarine
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Paul, try bedding the FW stock on the 243.  Might help.  All the shooting for bug holes and practice in the field is relevant.  The shooting for bug holes helps in practicing and refining shooting technics, it carries over to the field.    



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 Posted: Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 01:41 AM
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sergeant69
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dammitt, get a .308 and load 110gr HP in it and then you'll be proud to own a REAL gun. i never liked a .243 and never shot a 2 whatever roberts so why are you asking me?



 Posted: Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 07:39 AM
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Aussie Mick
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sergeant69
You didnt have to answer, you chose to. (ps I already own a .308 that shoots very small groups)
However thanks for your input.

Paul,

Whilst yes some do get too wrapped up in "group therapy" chasing those small bug holes, as no doubt you are aware, if your confident in your kit, and capable of the shot, you will always try and see what that rifle will really do.

The flow on from that is that is also increasing the likleyhood, of first round kills, at extended ranges on varmint sized game.

Agreed though, people do tend to neglect shooting practice, in hunting positions.

Mick

Edited for fingers that wont do as they are told.

Last edited on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 07:45 AM by Aussie Mick



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 Posted: Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 01:31 PM
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sergeant69
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aussie..i KNOW you didn't ask me. i was being a smart ass. i figure theres not enough of us left and i'd hate to let the breed die out.

Last edited on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 01:34 PM by sergeant69



 Posted: Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 01:44 PM
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Paul B wrote: I have two rifles in each of the rounds in question.
Paul B.


OK, you win :-)

The FW's can be tricky.  Most will respond to a "ramped approach".

How much tension is on the barrel at the forend?  Less is usually best, many need to be free floated.  If you remove a bit of pressure by placing a bit of card stock just in front of the recoil lug, sometimes it lets you know where to go.

I start by glassing the recoil lug area, and it that does the trick, I leave it alone.  If it still wants to walk around, pillar bedding the rear end can help.

If nothing helps, and it's a short action model, you sell it to TMan51 back east, and it becomes his problem ;-)



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