| Posted: Tue Aug 7th, 2007 03:29 PM |
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1st Post |
billt
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Is it me or are gun prices increasing faster than the inflation rate? It sure seems that way. I'm planning to purchase 3 new semi auto rifles after the first of next year and it's really the first time I've sat down in a while with a calculator and figured out just how much this will cost, and I'm surprised! I'm looking into at least 2 new AR-15 type rifles, and possibly a Springfield M1-A as well. My reason is I'm afraid if this upcoming election doesn't go our way, another type of Assault Weapons Ban is sure to be in the cards. I hope I'm wrong, but the way things are going, these type of firearms are sure to be the first ones they will try and regulate in some way. So I am applying the, "get them while you can" philosophy. Besides, any excuse is a good one when it comes to buying guns. Scopes are another area that have come under heavy price increases. A Leupold Mark IV is well into 4 digits. I can remember it wasn't that long ago if you spent over $400.00 on a scope, that was considered to be a lot. Now it's barely run of the mill. I'm kind of frugal with my money, (I'm still driving 2 1991 Fords), but when it comes to guns I don't mind spending because it's one of the few hobbies that pretty much allow you to retrieve your investment if and when you sell. It looks like I'll have to part with a little more coin then I had planned to achieve my goal. I'm not upset over it, hell, it's like I told Melanie when we went to visit the new Bass Pro Shop that opened here a few months back. We cruised past a really nice Bass boat with a $45,000.00 price on it and I said to her, be glad I don't like to fish! Bill T.
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| Posted: Tue Aug 7th, 2007 03:45 PM |
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2nd Post |
armoredman
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There is one reason prices jumped - when the first news of the attemptto redo the AWB filtered out, with the Deomo majority in Congress, many people surmised the same, and began buying.
Some things are the same price - WASR10s still go for under $400.
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| Posted: Tue Aug 7th, 2007 04:16 PM |
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billt
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I think the Democrats are responsible for the sale of more new guns than anyone. If they really want gun control, stop talking about it, then buying won't be so "out of control"! Bill T.
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| Posted: Tue Aug 7th, 2007 04:44 PM |
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billt
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My local dealer that I do business with has the "Target Mini" for $810.00. Thats for the one with the conventional stock. The Laminated stock Target Model is even higher. Bill T.
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| Posted: Tue Aug 7th, 2007 04:47 PM |
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billt
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I was shocked to find in the new Ruger catalog that #1 Single Shots now have a MSRP of over $1,000.00. Bill T.
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| Posted: Wed Aug 8th, 2007 12:21 AM |
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Mortis
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Being I'm in the business of taking steel and making a mess of it....let me tell ya that the price has been going up ever so slightly.
NOW..........if you have been looking at them ugly shiney guns.... be advised that Stainless steel has taken a MAJOR jump in price. Last week I quoted some stainless steel to replace what we have on the shelf. My replacement cost on that steel bought 4 years ago has more then tripled.
So goes the price of raw material, goes the price of the finished product.
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| Posted: Wed Aug 8th, 2007 01:06 PM |
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BigBill
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I think buying modern rifles is over for me.(the high priced stuff) Even the used rifle prices have doubled lately too. I been wanting a 264win mag, a 270, a 284, a 280 and a 45/70 to add to my collection but the prices are killing me.
The prices on ammo is even worse too. I should of built a cement ammo dump years ago and filled it when i had the chance. Even the surplus ammo prices is very high now too on whats left. Its come full circle again the surplus ammo prices were high in the mid 70's to mid 80's too before the import flood of it hit here. I guess we were very lucky to live in that era because its long gone now.
I jumped off of the C&R surplus military ship to get some affordable handguns.(CZ's)
My next rifles will be surplus military built sporters. I have 3 already one in 8mm mauser (98K), 1 in 7,mm mauser('93 chilean) and one in 7,62x54r(mosin). I'm thinking of going with some modern calibers next.
As far as new rifles the Russian Izhmash Saiga's are looking better and better all the time lately. I like my 308 and 223 saiga's there still under $400 and shoot great.
I feel bad for the new shooters just starting out.
With news of a new AWB looming it promotes gun sales!!!!!!! With the last home invasion here it sent many new gun buyers to the stores too. One local gun shop said he can't keep a supply of shotguns in his store. Bad guys beware!!! I think the public is tired of this BS. Its not just the eldery too. I keep my 1911 with me all the time with 7 extra mags. My area is a good safe area but you never know. I'd let my two dogs have fun first with the bad guy(rottie/crazy lab).
With the last home invasion all they needed was to have a dog plus a handgun would of been nice too. Bite'm and shoot'em and bag them thats it for these scumbags it would save our justice system time and money.
Last edited on Wed Aug 8th, 2007 01:15 PM by BigBill
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| Posted: Wed Aug 8th, 2007 02:19 PM |
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armoredman
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Saigas may indeed be the way for this cheap poor state slave to finally get a new rifle.
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| Posted: Mon Aug 13th, 2007 03:41 AM |
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VarmintGuy
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Billt: I could not agree with you more! The prices of firearms is rising about 6 times the inflation rate!
I have bought so many new and collector Rifles in the last 40+ years that I think it is time for me to spend my "mad money" on something else!
And if it weren't bad enough that Rifles are "exploding" in price the scopes that I buy to put on them is keeping me in the poor house! There is simply not enough "metal" or "glass" in a scope to justify the outrageous jumps in prices they have taken in the last 5 years!
I plan on seeking out very good buys on Rifles in the used market! Dittoes with scopes!
Its a shame - this outrageous skyrocketing prices for scopes and Rifles!
AND I hear now that all reloading components are taking a jump here in September followed by another in January!
Maybe I should start playing the lottery???
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy
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| Posted: Mon Aug 13th, 2007 11:33 AM |
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Charley
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Guns are gettuing more expensive, but they are considerably better, in most respects to what was available thirty years ago. Today, if a rifle won't shoot minute of angle most will bitch about how inaccurate it is. Thirty years ago, not many production rifles would do that. Granted labor isn't as skilled in handwork as a generation ago, but tooling and machine work are worlds apart. Good steel has always been expensive.
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| Posted: Mon Aug 13th, 2007 01:48 PM |
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billt
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The cost of manufacturing many of these guns has put them out of production entirely. The Browning Auto V and the Colt Python come to mind. I wouldn't necessarly say that guns are "better" today. I have a total of 4 Remington 700's. With that said the last one I bought was in 1985, a heavy barreled Varmint in .22-250. I'm hearing a lot of complaints from guys about workmanship and accuracy of the newer ones. Anything today that is made of 100% steel is going to cost. Most all manufacturers have switched to Aluminum receivers and frames in many of their models to reduce manufacturing costs. The Browning "Gold" has replaced the Auto V and is the flagship of their auto shotgun line. It's receiver is all Aluminum vs. all steel for the Auto V, and it costs more than the A-5 did when it went out of production in the mid to late 90's. Aluminum cuts like butter, and the tool life is forever. It doesn't hold up as well as steel. Browning has also swapped out steel for Aluminum in the receivers of their lever actions and Long Track BAR's. The Safari model BAR is still offered with a all steel receiver, but I'm quite sure that won't last. One of the only models that hasn't changed, or been cheapened up thru the years is the Weatherby Mark V DeLuxe. It now has a MSRP starting around $1,700.00 in the lighter calibers, up to well over $2,000.00 for the .460. If you look at what banks are paying on passbook accounts and CD's, you're almost better off investing in the higher grade firearms. It seems today you have to hunt for a firearm that doesn't have plastic or Aluminum in it. I find that dissapointing. I'm looking to order a "Baby" Desert Eagle in .45 ACP. It has a fair price, and the best thing is it's constructed from 100% steel. Slide, frame, and magazine. Magnum Research isn't stingy with materials when they build weapons. I have 2 of their BFR Revolvers, and the workmanship is superb for the price. I have a feeling I won't be dissapointed by this one either. Bill T.
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| Posted: Tue Aug 14th, 2007 02:46 AM |
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12th Post |
BigBill
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I have heard rumors that the quality of the remington 700's has fallen off since '94. My last remington 700 is a '94 in 338win mag and benchrested using new winchester X ammo she will put two bullets thru the same hole if i do my part.
I have also heard about the new gun manufacturers saying that shooting 1 1/2 to 2" groups is the norm for a new rifle....I guess there saying thats good if it shoots that good. Shooting 1 1/2" to 2" groups for emptying my wallet isn't that great to me anyway. My last 700 back in '94 wasn't cheap either. Thats the last time i purchase a new rifle for that much $$$. I'm very lucky i got a good one too.
I have heard rumors about springfield armory too with there quality too. Some guys had to send there rifles back twice to be repaired because of bad accuracy. After reading that a lot of guys sent there rifles back sure pushed me more towards the saiga's..... I have one springer 1911a1 that jams and stove pipes on each mag full to this day. I traded in my two 1911a1 colts and my python because of quality problems too.
I have very bad luck with new stuff..........
Even the prices on the surplus military stuff is goiing sky high too its almost to the point its not worth doing anymore. Even the new russian izhmash saiga's are more affordable and there brand new.....
The ammo prices are a killer too most affordable ammo is up 50% and due to go even higher. I thought that $24 for 20 rds of 338win mag was too high and its like $40 + now? I'm glad i stocked up on that and purchased the dies too.
Ammo prices has been a roller coaster ride for the past 20 years. Even the surplus military ammo was very high priced in the late 70's to early 80's if you could find it. Then the market became flooded with it for the past 15 years or so, we had it really good till now. What was sold by the case is now sold by the 20rd box(surplus ammo).
I think the good old days are gone and never comming back. Its time to dust off the RCBS rockchucker........
I did notice a shortage of 30 cal bullets for reloading too. I went looking for FMJ 30 cal bullets(pulled military stuff) its all gone too nada.....I stocked up and wanted to get more but its gone already.....
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| Posted: Tue Aug 14th, 2007 02:58 AM |
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billt
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I just ordered the "Baby" Desert Eagle today with a couple of extra mags. It should come in tommorrow or the next day. I'll post a report on how good it runs. I'm hoping for a good one. If it's good enough for the Isreali Army, it should be good enough for me. We'll see. Bill T.
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| Posted: Wed Aug 15th, 2007 02:11 PM |
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BigBill
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I been trying to save for a bigger tractor but your killing me with these new purchases.......billt.....
I have so many projects going on right now with the new house in the country that was an estate sale and it needs work even though we cut 15 rack body truckloads of brush already there's more to go. Plus my restoring of old tractors is ongoing too. My new house in vt at my camp will be built in the spring too. All this is putting a hurtin on my mad money for guns/shooting stuff and the time to have fun with it too.
My sons are doing the work, i'm disabled and want to watch the corn grow and the deer eat it...but we have to clear the field first....
My last purchases were the CZ82's but i like the Fulton Armory M14 or the Polytech M14 reworked by fulton armory too. I need to start another savings account for this one it always gets side tracked. This one is going to be an expensive purchase.
Now i'm going gun browsing with my tractor money......
Last edited on Wed Aug 15th, 2007 02:22 PM by BigBill
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| Posted: Wed Aug 15th, 2007 05:27 PM |
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VarmintGuy
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Billt: I have been buying new Remington Rifles for 42 years now and hope to keep doing so for 10 or 20 more years (I am 60 now)!
I have owned well in excess of 200 Remington bolt action arms and currently own and shoot 36 bolt action Remington Rifles! Your posting regarding "hearing" that accuracy and workmanship of Remington Rifles is worthy only of complaint and derision is "inaccurate"! Or let me put it this way - your "hearings" are wrong - not only are they wrong they are unfounded, unwarranted and based on nothing more than mean spirited rumor mongering!
Let ME give you a few examples - and if you want I will give you QUITE A FEW MORE!
Recently I purchased Remington bolt action Rifle in caliber 204 Ruger - not only was this handsome and well balanced Rifle good to look at, the workmanship, fit and finish were just fine! Admittedly it had a couple of aluminum parts on it BUT it still looked great AND it shoots like a house on fire! I will quote from my shooting/loading log and relay to you the last 6 (six) groups this Rifle has shot - not the best 6 (six) groups the Rifle has made - THE LAST 6 (six) groups the Rifle has fired for me! Mind you these are 5 (five) shot groups at 100 yards! Slow fire and under good to excellent conditions! Here are the groups from this year old Remington bolt Rifle - .326", .439", .421", .374", .402" and .322"! This is an all stock factory Rifle and the only thing done to it was a trigger job and adding a Leupold variable scope to it!
Another example for you consideration: I recently (April 2,007) purchased a new Remington bolt action Rifle (Model 700 VSF) in the brand new 17 Remington Fireball cartridge. This Rifle again has one or two none steel parts but it looks great, handles great and I have as yet to find a flaw in the workmanship of THIS Rifle! Shoots wonderfully, as well. I only used Remington factory ammo the first few months of this Rifles life and the last 4 (four) groups I made with this Rifle using the factory ammunition produced these groups .533", .586", .579" and .541"! FACTORY AMMO there billt! Then just a couple weeks ago I started handloading for this Remington bolt action - and including ALL test loads tried for grouping (5 shots at 100 yards) this Rifle is averaging .466" for ALL handloaded groups to date! Again, all stock, all factory Remington Rifle!!!
Hmmmm.........!
One more for Remington's, "new times sake"!
In 2,006 I bought a Remington bolt action Rifle in caliber 223 Remington - of all things YEP in lowly 223 Remington - I already have seven guns in 223 Remington but I thought I would like to try this new format Rifle from Remington.
It took me just two range sessions to find an amazingly accurate load for this Remington Rifle! The first day consisted of 2 groups being made using VV 133 powder and Berger 52 gr bullets with LaPua brass and Federal Match primers. I mounted a Leupold 8.5x25 variable scope on this Rifle and again its all stock other than trigger adjusting by me! The Rifle shot well but did not really like the VV 133 powder grouping .486" and .613" (5 shots at 100 yards). MANY people with MANY Rifles would have been very happy with that performance! The NEXT day I tried good ole H 335 powder and the groups shrank considerably - the 3 (three) groups (5 shots at 100 yards) I made that day measured .326", .121" and .346"!!! All factory, all stock Remington!!! And again with this Remington Rifle I have as yet to find a flaw or non-functioning part in it!
By the way billt, that .121" group I made with that Remington Rifle IS the smallest group (5 shots at 100 yards) I have ever made with ANY all factory (non-Remington 40X) Rifle! The other "factory Rifles" I have shot over the decades include those made by Browning, Colt, Parker Hale, Winchester, Ruger, CZ, Anschutz, Savage, Sako, Mossberg, Cooper, Smith & Wesson, Kimber, Weatherby, Olympic Arms, Tradewinds, Mannlicher-Schoenauer, Harrington Richardson and probably several others that I can't recall at the moment!
Thats right this brand new Remington has outperformed them!
So, there are just three prime examples of how outrageously WRONG you and your blanket condemnation of Remington Rifles are! If you would like more DOCUMENTED examples pointing out your error simply ask and I will gladly provide them!
And don't get me wrong - every Remington Rifle is not perfect, I am sure! I have bought as many new Remington Rifles in the last 5,10 and 20 year time spans as anyone I know - yet I have NOT had occassion to seek out repair for one, nor have I had one that I did not consider to be accurate!
Aaahhh..... I can't resist - just one more example to pound home the outrageousness and error of your blanket condemnation of Remington Rifles - in early 2,005 I bought my first Remington Rifle in caliber 204 Ruger, it is the Model 700 VLS. The Rifle has no flaws or quality control issues (at least none that have surfaced so far!) and it is a handsome and well balanced and a good fitting Rifle! THE FIRST DAY at my range and with THE FIRST LOAD I tried this all factory stock Rifle made 2 (two) 5 shot groups at 100 yards measuring .398" and .480"! Thats an average of .439"! And for your further consideration there, billt, this Rifle holds its point of aim from Hunt to Hunt and from year to year! If you can find something to criticize about this Rifle I would like to "hear" just exactly what it is!
Again, billt, I have LOTS more examples of recently manufactured Remingtons and of my happiness with them - I would be HAPPY to enumerate them for you if you would like!.
Aaaahhh heck, billt - I am not going to wait for you to ask I am gonna add a couple more examples to this posting just for you consideration!
Remington 700 VSSF in caliber 220 Swift (which CAN be a "touchy" round to obtain accuracy with!) that I purchased in March of 2,006. I mounted a Nikon 6.5x20 scope on it, adjusted the trigger and went to the range for load testing! ALL the loads I tested in this high performance cartridge/Rifle gave me groups (5 shots at 100 yards) that AVERAGED .480"!!! Again billt this is an average of ALL the loads I have tested!!!
Accuracy IS NOT a problem with this new Remington Rifle in 220 Swift!
Had enough of the "wee ones" there billt? How about the Remington Model 700 VLS in 260 Remington that I recently bought. Again all factory, all functioning flawlessly this Rifle makes average groups at 100 yards for 5 shots measuring .497" - this with a Leupold 6.5x20 scope and HUNTING BULLETS (Nosler 100 gr. Ballistic Tips)!
Another "boomer" for your "illumination" billt! Remington Model 700 Sendero in caliber 270 Winchester. All stock, all flawless,is its trigger job done only modification and again with Big Game "friendly" bullets the last three years I have taken this Rifle to the range for pre-Big Game Hunting trips it has made groups (5 shots at 100 yards) measuring .729" (windy a bit that year!), .547" and .611" respectively each year!!! And I know from having paid attention to this type thing for more than 40 years now - this Rifle maintains exact point of impact from year to year to year! That is one of the attributes of an "excellent" Rifle billt!
I consider your blanket attempt at condemnation of Remington Rifles to be immature, mean spirited, unfounded and specious (without merit!)!
In fact - I think you owe Remington Rifles an apology! Not just based on my extensive first hand experiences but based on those I have seen "first hand" of my significant number of shooting and Hunting partners!
As so often is the case with mean spirited people I don't expect an apology any time soon!
There MUST be SOME reason Remington bolt action Rifles are the best selling factory Rifles in the world???
Maybe in your mind though, there isn't?
LONG live Remington Arms Corporation!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy
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| Posted: Wed Aug 15th, 2007 07:38 PM |
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16th Post |
billt
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Whoa, Easy!
I'm not "blanket condemning" anything. As I said I own 4 of them. That said there would have been a fifth. I've been thinking about a 7MM RUM for some time. I was in the Sportsmans Warehouse near me some time back and asked if they had a 700 BDL in 7 MM RUM. He had 2. The first one had a gap of close to 1/8" along one side of the forend, with the forend wood right up against the barrel steel on the other side. The second one had the checkering "smashed" in all along the bottom of the forend. Not something I want to have to deal with on a $700.00 rifle. That doesn't mean every rifle that leaves Illion is in that bad of shape. It does mean the 2 that I looked at should have never gotten out of the factory that way. When I asked the salesperson why they didn't send them back, he simply shrugged his shoulders and said, "someone will buy them". Sure enough, about 3 weeks later I stopped in again for some cleaning supplies and I inquired, and both were sold. Personally I can't see how anyone would be satisfied purchasing a new firearm with those type of defects. But someone is. As far as reports of inaccurate Remingtons on other forums, I've read plenty. But that in itself doesn't mean much. Down the road I might take a chance on another 700. If I want a 7MM RUM I'll have to seeing as no one else chambers that round in a factory rifle. If I do it's going to have to be better than the 2 I've looked at thus far. Bill T.
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| Posted: Wed Aug 15th, 2007 07:59 PM |
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17th Post |
billt
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Another factor to consider in this is the fact Remington Arms has been operating at a loss for several years, and in fact has been sold to Cerberus Capital Management, L.P. , the same outfit who bought Bushmaster Arms from Dick Dyke last year. When companies run in the red for extended periods of time, they tend not to produce the best product, or deliver the best service. The recent total chaos of the airline industry in this country is a good example. Management tends to have a high turnover, quality people tend to leave for fear of losing their jobs down the road, and the result is most always poorer quality product. When people are worried if they'll have jobs or not it's safe to say most don't have their mind on there work. Perhaps Remingtons new owners will sort thinks out. They certainly have the investment capital to do so. We can only hope they possess the talent. Remington is no different than any other company in the regard you always have to be advancing in ways to produce a better product in a more timely fashion. Winchester couldn't accomplish that, and we all saw what happened to them. I've always liked Remington firearms, and own several including, as I mentioned, 4 700's, 2 shotguns, and an XP-100. All of those firearms were the first ones I looked at, then purchased. Let's hope if I buy another the 3rd time is the charm. I will also add that I think Remington deserves credit for not jumping on the Aluminum bandwagon the way Browning, and many others have. They still produce the 870, 1100, 1187, as well as the SP-10 with all steel receivers. A much more robust material than Aluminum. Bill T.
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CB900F
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BillT;
If you want to both hedge the inflation market, and control your costs, do this: Buy about 6 stripped AR lowers now.
Doing this, you can build at the rate you can afford. If another AWB does get enacted, which I also think is a distinct possibility, your lowers will markedly increase in value. If you do some shopping, you should be able to find stripped factory new lowers for something around $100.00 each.
900F
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armoredman
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| Location: | Arizona USA |
| Posts: | 539 |
| Photo: | [Download] | | Are you a handloader?: | Yes | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | rifle | | My favorite chambering is:: | |
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State lied about my raise, no more buying, selling instead.
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If total government control equals safety, why are prisons so dangerous?
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