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jjb2
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Posted: 13 April 2008 07:05 PM |
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| had a chance to get a bolt rifle but i really wanted .223 caliber... the rifle was in .22-250 so i didn't want it so much.. i really wanted the .223 because i might able to find brass to reload more easily... what do guys all think?
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72coupe
Handloading Master
| Joined: | 11 June 2006 |
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Posted: 14 April 2008 02:10 AM |
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I love 22-250 but I have 3 rifles in 223. The 223 is slightly cheaper to reload but only because it uses less powder and you can pickup the brass for free at the range. With careful reloading Winchester 22-250 cases will last for years.
Another thing to consider is barrel life. A good 223 barrel will have and accurate life of just less than 10,000 rounds but a 22-250 barrel will probably be gone by 3,000 rounds.
One thing I don't like about 22-250 rifles is that most of them have a 1/14 twist rate to the rifling which prevents you from shooting anything heavier than 60 grain bullets.
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jjb2
addicted handloader
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Posted: 14 April 2008 02:39 AM |
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| hummmm... is it the velocity of the .22-250 that shortens barrel life? i think the barrel of the rifle i'm looking at is 1-16 twist but i'm not sure... this would be my first centerfire rifle so i'm new at this.... i know about centerfire handguns and reloading them but i think there might much for me to learn when reloading for a rifle....
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jjb2
addicted handloader
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Posted: 14 April 2008 02:45 AM |
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jjb2 wrote: hummmm... is it the velocity of the .22-250 that shortens barrel life? i think the barrel of the rifle i'm looking at is 1-16 twist but i'm not sure... this would be my first centerfire rifle so i'm new at this.... i know about centerfire handguns and reloading them but i think there might much for me to learn when reloading for a rifle....
just checked the specs and .22-250 is 1-14 twist and the .223 is 1-12..... like i said there is much for me to learn about rifles!
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72coupe
Handloading Master
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Posted: 14 April 2008 02:46 AM |
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Its the increase in pressure and the amount of flaming powder you are forcing down that little bitty hole that decreases barrel life.
Even though 243 and 308 are basically the same case, barrel life for the 243 is about half that of a 308 because of this phenomenon.
I have never heard of a 22-250 with a 16 twist. That would be really slow. If it had a 1:9 you could shoot bullets up to 75 grain.
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72coupe
Handloading Master
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Posted: 14 April 2008 02:49 AM |
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| The AR15s I have one is a 1:7.7 the other is a 1:7. My Model 70 Winchester has a 1:9. The ARs will shoot 80 grain bullets extremely well out to 600 yards. I haven't tried them at longer ranges than that. The Model 70 will also shoot the 75 grain Amax to 600 yards with amazing accuracy if I read the wind correctly.
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jjb2
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Posted: 14 April 2008 04:18 AM |
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| hhuuuummmm....... please explain to me all about bullet weight and rifling twist rates......
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72coupe
Handloading Master
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Posted: 14 April 2008 01:42 PM |
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Explain twist rate. Well, I give it a shot. The longer a bullet is the higher the twist rate has to be. It is not really the weight that determines the rate but the length.
As an example a rifle that shoots a round ball might have a twist of 1:66 or if it shoots slugs a 1:48 where a rifle that shoots a very long for caliber bullet like the 224 cal bullet of 90 grains. The 90 grain 224 bullet requires as a minimum 1:7 but ideally would use a 1:6.5.
The last 22-250 I had was a Sako with a 1:12. I tried some 70 grain Bergers in it and all 10 holes were oblong. The group was 10 inches at 100 yards. On the other hand my ARs with a 1:7 twist will shoot very long 80 grain bullets into 0.6 inches at 100 yards.
The formula for calculating the twist rate required for a particular bullet is the Greenwood formula. I would give it to but I don't have it. You can probably google it.
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saddlesore
addicted handloader
| Joined: | 6 February 2005 |
| Location: | Colorado Springs, Colorado USA |
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Posted: 14 April 2008 02:28 PM |
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Here is a good explanationon twist rates and how to determine what is right for your rifle. Not exact ,but good general beginning.
http://www.recguns.com/Sources/VIIIB6.html
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coyoteklr
HB Full Member
| Joined: | 13 March 2008 |
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Posted: 14 April 2008 10:17 PM |
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There are several factors in determining barrel life....ie metal composition, powder, charge, how the rifle is cleaned and taken care of ..... usually the throat goes first and alot of the times a smith can shorten the barrel a it and rechamber and your back in business. Most of the barrel problems that I have seen have been from not taking care of the gun.... the worn out barrel is alot of myth mixed in with half truths.... such as the 220 swift barrels only lasting 1000 rounds....I've had and have 6 swifts over the years and the only problem was with one and it had over 4000 rounds throat was erroded....have 2 22-250's with considerably over 3000 rounds and still shooting one ragged hole @ a 100 I have two ar platform 223' one I'd like to rap around a pole and the other is a RR that I wouldn't trade for anything..... The 250 and swift I shoot 55 grain 1:12..... won't do heavier with accruacy and the AR' I shoot a 75 grain 1:9.5
Last edited on 14 April 2008 10:23 PM by coyoteklr
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SavageMOA
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Posted: 15 April 2008 02:20 AM |
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| I LOVE my Savage 12FV in .223. The .223 is a really versitile round and like it was said before, it can save you loads in reloading and the barrel will last twice as long as a 22-250.
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boonyrat
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Posted: 15 April 2008 08:48 PM |
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| 223 brass is easier/cheaper but go with the 22-250. you can load it down to 223 velocity or mash the gas and be on the heels of the 220 swift. when i had my encore i had a 22-250 barrel/6x24 scope, it was death for anything that walked/flew in front of it!
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nksmfamjp
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Posted: 21 July 2008 03:06 AM |
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22-250 is a great round, but twist rates from the factory are always for 40 - 52 gr varmint bullets.
The 223 with a 1-9, 1-8 or 1-7 would be better at longer range because you can shoot heavier bullets.
A 22-250 in 1-9 twist, would be super!
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Oddbod
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| Joined: | 20 January 2008 |
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Posted: 22 July 2008 09:51 PM |
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I just noticed that Savage now list the rifling twist rate for their 22-250 chambered rifles as 1:12, rather than the previous 1:14, possibly due to the popularity of 55gr bullets.
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Dirtkicker
addicted handloader
| Joined: | 3 September 2007 |
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Posted: 22 July 2008 10:06 PM |
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| I live out where long range is the rule. I have six rifles in .223 and none in .22-250. It's a fine cartridge, but I just didn't want to get into another caliber. Once shots start to reach out beyond about 300 yards I can go to a .243 or the .257, or even the .308 or '06. I may someday weaken and tumble for a .22-250 but right now I'm very happy with the battery I have. My preferences suit me but might not fit somebody else.
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Timberghozt
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Posted: 23 July 2008 01:23 AM |
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I am by no means a master,some might say I am but it is I am simply a student of long range rifles and I like speed..I am a 220 Swift fanatic,yet have never owned a 22-250 nor will I..I have owned enough 223`s to make your mind wonder about my thought processes.,
My dislike of a 22-250 is it is above a 223,by any means...yet it is not a hyper wildcat,and with an astute handloader,it WILL NOT MATCH A 220 SWIFT IN PERFORMANCE...yet it will erode thoats,and that is a killer..
so will a 220 Swift,but that is why we have gunsmiths and barrel makers.,
nuff said
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72coupe
Handloading Master
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Posted: 23 July 2008 02:07 AM |
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I don't want to start an argument but I bought my first 22-250 when everyone thought the 220 Swift was dead. Winchester thought is was so dead that it brought out the 225 Winchester cartridge to take its place.
I like 22-250 because, if I have to, I can make cases from 308 and any of its family members. How many 6MM Lee Navy cases do you find lying around the range these days?
Timbergohst is correct that a 220 Swift is a little faster but I don't think it is a better cartridge. I have shot beside many swifts and I was always able to hit prarie dogs at the same ranges as the swifts. I have said that I love 22-250 many times on this forum and although I don't have one at this moment I wish I did. I have never lusted after the swift.
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Timberghozt
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Posted: 23 July 2008 03:08 PM |
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72coupe,I`ll agree with ya there..Brass is easier to get for the 22-250 but not really hard to get for the Swift..The Swift has developed a resurgence in popularity in the last few years,especially amongst yote hunters..She is the grandaddy of varmint cartridges,
On a side note,My father in law hunted for many years and I don`t know how many deer I have seen him take with a neck shot or heart shot from his 22-250..My oldest son uses it now after his granpa passed away in 07 from cancer..
not that I am advocating using a 22-250 for everyone on whitetails,but I used a 220 Swift for a long while when I was younger for deer and feral hogs..
though I am not a fan of the 22-250..its a wicked little round
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"He who fights with monsters might take care, lest he thereby become a monster; For if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - F.Nietzche
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72coupe
Handloading Master
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Posted: 23 July 2008 06:45 PM |
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I have to agree with you that the Swift is a much better cartridge today than it was 35 years ago.
The Swift hasn't changed but barrel materials and powders avialable to handloaders have. This makes the Swift what it is today.
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