| Posted: Fri Oct 9th, 2009 02:18 AM |
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Benc48
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To all members
Can I have the pros and cons on this round ?
A fellow I know wants to sell a 22 Hornet to me, Don't know what make of rifle it is , He works out of state so won't see him for a few weeks and no price has been talked about , So any input would help will help.
Thank you
Benc
P.S. The bore is .224 not .223.
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| Posted: Fri Oct 9th, 2009 02:07 PM |
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2nd Post |
sdb777
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I've got the caliber you mention in a few different firearms!
It isn't hard to find brass for the handloader, and you just need to be sure you don't get projectiles mixed with those .223"(accuracy issues will show up fast).
It really all depends on what you plan to do with it? I've zapped crows out to 125yds with great effect! But I'd consider something heavier for coyotes at that distance(in case of a bad hit) and beyond, but wouldn't hesitate at closer shots on 'em.
What kind of price are you looking at? Is it a rifle or T/C pistol? How many rounds down the tube(not that it matters, because I load rather warm loads and it hasn't effected accuracy at all)?
If the round doesn't offer enough horsepower, you could always get a 'smith to re-ream the chamber to the "K" or "Improved" Hornet. And then simply run those "Standard" Hornet cartridges through it to 're-size' the brass.
Scott (I'd get it, if the price was right) B
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| Posted: Mon Oct 12th, 2009 03:28 PM |
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Bigdog57
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I have the singleshot BRNO ZBK-110 rifle chambered in .22 Hornet, and have so far just used it at the range. Very accurate with the right load. Mine really likes the 45grain V-Max bullet, and I have done best thus far with Hodgdon's Lil Gun powder. H110 worked well too. It doesn't seem to like SP bullets though.
The very thin case does require care taken when loading so as not to crush it. Be vary critical when adjusting your dies!
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| Posted: Thu Oct 15th, 2009 08:25 PM |
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Rapier
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I have a #3 in 22H and a #1 in 218 Bee. The little Hornet is about like a 22 Mag in application. It is not a long distance round but is well known for accuracy and cheap shooting, way cheaper than the 22 Mag. Berger makes a 35gr bullet now that I do like in the Hornet and the Bee. I use the two rifles to shoot turtles on my ponds.
Best,
Ed
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| Posted: Tue Oct 20th, 2009 03:03 PM |
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BPCR Bill
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I have a Hornet in a #1 Ruger and love it. Like they guys said, it isn't a long range round (200 yards max)but it's a ton of fun. Zip for recoil and low on noise. One thing you should know. The cases are somewhat thin, so if you think you're going to hop up some loads, forget it. If you don't get stuck cases, chances are the accuracy will fall off. And you will have dramatically shortened case life. It won't blow up P-dogs like a 22-250, and if that's what you want a rifle to do, get one of those high velocity launchers. What the Hornet lacks in "dramatic" downrange performance, it makes up for in accuracy. If you hit it at a reasonable range, you'll kill it. I load mine with the 45 or 50 grain V-Max. The factory said mine is a 1-14" twist, but after checking a number of times I have a 1-13" twist in mine. I mounted a vintage Weaver 12X (El Paso made) target scope and it's a tack driver.
Regards,
Bill
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| Posted: Tue Oct 20th, 2009 03:32 PM |
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fryboy
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one thing to keep in mind is that a lot of older hornets were chambered for .223 diameter bullets as opposed to .224,
the hornet is a great lil round , the improved versions ...well are improved lolz they do make special bullets for it because of the lower velocities/range,lighter jackets etc
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| Posted: Tue Oct 20th, 2009 07:39 PM |
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Rapier
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True true, it was also a practice for many gunsmiths for many years to use RF barrels for the older Hornet and Bee custom rifles. I bought such a pieces and parts gun then put it together and finished it. It never seemed to care that it was a .223 bore with a 1-16 twist. But it did favor the 40gr RN Hornet bullets. The give away for these guns is the 1-16 twist barrels.
Best,
Ed
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| Posted: Tue Oct 20th, 2009 09:50 PM |
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Bigdog57
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What is nice about the Hornet is we can download them, with a 35 or 40 grain bullet, to do anything a .22LR or .22WMR can do, and it's reloadable. Nice backup for a dwindling supply of .22 rimfire. Makes it a nice 'squirrel getter'. 
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| Posted: Sat Oct 24th, 2009 10:19 PM |
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North61
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I love the Hornet. The only one I have left at present is in an M6 survival gun and I find that 55 grain bullets at 2100ft/sec makes a pretty good small game getter. I use to use a BRNO for gophers and Lil'Gun powder really made bullets zing. Didn't heat up like bigger centerfires.
Truthfully the performance of the 17HMR persuaded me to sell the Hornet for varmint use. I found handloading hundreds of varmint rounds not to my liking. The 17HMR is (or was) affordable and pretty darn good at downing 200+ gophers a day.
The Hornet is a pretty fine small game round though when using 50-55 grain cast bullets at 2000fps. It's a pretty great 200 yard varmint round with 35 grain Hornady's. Lots of splat.
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| Posted: Sat Oct 24th, 2009 11:03 PM |
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lynxpilot
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I just mashed out 200 rounds for a friend at work. I went right with the Lyman manual for them using 40 gr Sierra soft points. It said the accuracy charge was something like 14 gr of AA1680. I found I couldn't even fit that much in the casing. Ironically, after my friend took them home he comes up to me at work and says I owe him a barrel (he knew I was self-conscious about my handloads) because it split like a banana at the end. He really had me going for a while, although I'd find it hard to imagine a 22H splitting a barrel.
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| Posted: Sun Oct 25th, 2009 08:50 PM |
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Offfhand
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Benc48, you asked for the Hornet's pros and cons, and there are several of each. I have, and have had, several Hornets, such as Pre-64 M-70, Win M-43, Sako (the early model) Anschutz, M-22 Springfield done by Griffinn & Howe ruger #1 Ruger bolt and Brno, (from back when Brno made great rifles.) Each of these Hornets have tended to be a law unto itself, which is rather typical of Hornets, which is why there are so many differing opinions. In recent years the quality of factory ammo and reloading components have improved greatly. Hodgdon's Lil-Gun powder, for example, has produced remarkable improvement in accuracy and Winchester's 34 grain bullet in their Supreme loading has set a new benchmark for Hornet factor loads.
But even so some Hornet rifles can be a puzzle, especially Ruger's 77/22H, which has a well deserved reputation for really poor accuracy. So much so that something of a "cottage industry" has sprung up among gunsmiths who claim to improve it's accuracy. Some of these
"improvements" are somewhat pricey, making one wonder why a buyer would buy a new rifle then shell out more money to make it shoot respectably. So if the rifle you're considering is a Ruger 77/22 beware. Lots of these have been dumped by unsatisfed buyers. I do not know if it's true, but I've been told that buyers who complained to Ruger customer service about the 3"-and larger- groups they were getting were told that it "falls within" their accuracy standard, whatever that is. A good Hornet with good ammo,a good scope and a skilled shooter will deliver 1" 5-shot groups, or better, at 100 yards, so that's not an unreasonable expectation. And a Hornet is fun to shoot! Which is why they have remained popular after so many decades.
Shoot well, shoot safely, and shoot often...
Offfhand
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| Posted: Sun Oct 25th, 2009 11:27 PM |
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swampshooter
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My Ruger 77/22H. shoots fine, I've taken quite a few prairie rats with it. I just had 3" cut off the barrel to make it a handier truck gun. I had a large supply of ww factory ammo, which shot about 3/4", but it's about shot up. Will start loading for it shortly, I'll report results.
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| Posted: Mon Oct 26th, 2009 12:42 AM |
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North61
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My M6 Springfield by CZ will shoot into 2MOA even though it has a wobbly action. My BRNO would go into 1 MOA with the right loads. A friends Ruger was a very good looking and well machined 4MOA piece of crapola.
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msisut
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I have two martini cadet engraved actions that I have threaded 22 cal. barrels to fit these actions. I have been planning to chamber these in 22 hornet. The door is still open on my chambering plans so some input would be appreciated. Certainly any wild cats are welcome in my house. These actions can handle up to 219 zipper, but that is pushing it. I would prefer a smaller cartridge. I have made new ejectors so rebated brass is useable, but I think I would prefer to stay with flanged brass.
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Rapier
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Ah, Ha... A Ca-det lover.... Hello fellow cadet owner.
I have a couple Cadets myself. They are like potato chips, you build one and it is hard to stop. Lets see, I have a 225 Winchester, a 222R, a 218 Bee, a 357 Super Mag, nope scratch that, two 357 Supers and just sold another 218 Bee. That 225 Winchester is about the top of the diameter/pressure pile.
On the 22 side I do like the 222R I got several boxes of brass from a guy in Australia as it is an Australian cartridge designed just for the cadet. Easy to reload, you use 222 dies and a 38 splr shell holder then just run 222 loads. The 218 Bee is no slouch, it will get 3,200 fps with a 40gr bullet and H-4227. The 222R will run 3,450 with a 53 Sierra and shoots sub .5 inches, which of course is the 222 all over.
I thought I had entered the 225 data but it is not on this box. I had to make firing pin bushings for the 225 and the 357 SM (Max) as the pressures would blow the primers around the bigger BP firing pin holes.
If you have an extractor made up for rim-less, I would go with the 222. Oh, just in case you have not figured this out, scope bases 541 Remington, glass the handguard on the barrel, two screws, case escutions make a nice touch, a 1911 slide file works great for the barrel extractor cuts.
Best,
Ed
Attachment: 222R small.jpg (Downloaded 82 times) Last edited on Thu Nov 5th, 2009 08:27 PM by Rapier
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Rapier
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That was the 222R, this is one of the 357 SM guns. Attachment: Eds 357 Max.jpg (Downloaded 80 times) Last edited on Thu Nov 5th, 2009 08:31 PM by Rapier
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msisut
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Hi Ed,
That English walnut sure grabs my eye. The fiddle back maple is nice, but to me the walnut steals the show.
I have a 222 magnum in a Sako rifle. It does a nice job so maybe this chambered in the cadet would work nicely if I worked up loads carefully. Also the Remington jet shows some nice ballistics.
When Cape Outfitters went out of business they offered me their box of misc. parts and partial actions. Of course, I (being a junkie) snatched that up right away. With some machining and parts making, I ended up with 11 actions. I am an engraver so these actions are the perfect canvass. This is Disney world for this old man. I have many grand kids that like to shoot so I guess these toys will find homes. Prior to the departure of these toys of mine, I do want to do a little test firing of my own. There really are some interesting cartridges that can be adapted to this action.
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Offfhand
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This is an interesting thread. Several days ago, after posting a few comments about my experiences with the Hornet, I got to thinking about some the Hornets in my collection and how they have changed over the years. So I got out a couple that represent the biggest shift from the old to the new and snapped the attached picture. I got my first Hornet about a half century ago when I was a young teenager, a Model-43 Winchester. Don't remember what I paid for it, but probably less than $50. plus another $15. or so for the Weaver G-6 scope and paying a gunsmith to mount it. They didn't some drilled and ready for scope mounting back then. I thought it was a pretty cool varmint hunting rig and bagged dozens of groundhogs and crows with it. I guess it's something of a collector's item now as it represents the pretty wood and fine craftsmanship at Winchester in those days, even for cheaper rifles like the M-43. My newest Hornet is the 8-shot Taurus "Raging Hornet" revolver. As you see in the photo there's quite a contrast between the old and new, especailly the optics. The scope on the revolver is a Zeiss 4.5-14X rifle scope. The higher magnification scope aids precision aiming for testing factory ammo and reloads for accuracy, and is also convenient when shooting from a bench. There is almost no recoil with this heavy rig so the shorter eye relief is no problem. Hope you enjoy the pictures.
Shoot well, safely and often...
Offfhand
Attachment: Hornets.JPG (Downloaded 63 times)
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msisut
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Nice pics offfhand. It would be fun to compare velocities over a chronograph. I would think the old 43 would show up the new boy on the block.
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| Posted: Tue Nov 10th, 2009 04:52 PM |
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Offfhand
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Misisut, thank you for kind commet about my picture. I am certainly not a photographer. I have of course compared the velocites of different loads with rifle and revolver and, as you suggest, the differences are interesting. With the Hornady 35 grain bullet and Hodgdon's Lil'gun propellant, a load that averages 2987 fps from a 24" test barrel averages 2592fps in the revolver with 10" barrel. (Bearing mind of course that the length of rifle barrel includes chamber lengh whereas the revolver is barrel legth only.) As you may be aware, comparing rifle and revolver performances is somthing of an apples and oranges situation because of, to name just one factor, the differences in pressures with identical loads. Whereas I use a .22 Hornet test barrel for collecting pressure and velocity data I am not equipped to collect parallel revolver data for the Hornet. That would require a vented test barrel, with is a fairly expensive proposition, and the limited use and value of Hornet revolver load data would not in my view justify the expense. Perhaps such data is available elsewhere and if so I would appreciate the input. I can provide info and pics of my other Hornets (All rifles) if anyone is interested, but as stated above, my photography is rather poor.
Offfhand
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