| Posted: Fri Nov 17th, 2006 02:06 AM |
|
21st Post |
Riposte1
HB Pro Staff
| Joined: | Mon Jul 10th, 2006 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 50 |
| Photo: | | | Are you a handloader?: | | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | | | My favorite chambering is:: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
Charley;
IMR data on the site I checked gave 1110 fps with a Remington 158 LSWC (which probably has a good bit of bullet down in the case). That said, it certainly is much as you state, lots of pressure for what essentially is .38 ballistics in a .357 case. Other manuals who use pressure barrels get quite a bit more velocity for that amount of pressure.
Oddly enough, even though SR4756 is not a "fast" handgun powder, this load only gains about 50 fps in a 4" and no more in a 6"...it must be one of those "niche" loads.
For sure, there is no such thing as a free lunch, if you push a 158 this fast it will have pressure (I don't think 35,000 but it is sure to have more than SAAMI spec .38spl pressure). Interestingly enough the Speer #8 gave 3 levels of loads with each powder type. The snubby loads were the middle level, there is an even hotter .38 load in the manual. As I mentioned Speer has backed off on the specific load due to variances from lot to lot.
Buffalo Bore currently makes a 158 LSWCHP load specifically for J-frames that gets over 1000 fps and Cor-Bon used to make one but I dont think they want to load lead any more (I have a couple of boxes of this load, it give 1005 fps in a friends 642 - it kicks a bit in a LW gun). B.B. load is listed as +P (20,000 cup) Cor-bon were listed as +P+.
For sure, no one is going to get any flak from me for being conservative.
Good luck!
Riposte
PS: Buffalo Bore .357 loads are within the SAMMI spec for that round as there is no "+P" rating for the .357. Their 180gr Lead flat nose gets 1302 in a 3" revolver, 1375 in a 4" , 1398 (they did not clock a 6") and 1851 in an 18.5" rifle. If IMR is only getting 1100 with a 158 lead bullet for 35K something is probably different with their setup. Their 158 is a jacketed bullet and gets about 100fp more in each length except the carbine which gets 2150fps
Last edited on Fri Nov 17th, 2006 02:38 AM by Riposte1
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 12th, 2007 02:49 AM |
|
22nd Post |
billt
Guest
| Joined: | |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | |
| Photo: | | | Are you a handloader?: | | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | | | My favorite chambering is:: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
I've loaded thousands of rounds of .38 Special over the years. I have several thousand rounds in stock right now for both my S&W Model 14 full lug 6" and my Model 15 6". Most of my loads are with Unique and the Remington 125 Gr. Jacketed Hollow Point which I buy in bulk from Midway quite reasonably. I also shoot a lot of cast loads in .38 Special as well. The .38 Special is a nice target cartridge you can shoot all day without getting tired of it. Nice light recoil and not much muzzle blast at all. It still remains one of the best, and most often loaded cartridges. Bill T.
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 12th, 2007 12:57 PM |
|
23rd Post |
72coupe
HB certified Master Handloading and Ballistics advisor
| Joined: | Sun Jun 11th, 2006 |
| Location: | Iowa Park, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 2016 |
| Photo: | | | Are you a handloader?: | | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | | | My favorite chambering is:: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
I just loaded 75 rounds of 148 grain plated bullets with 4.5 grains of Red Dot and a Remington 6 1/2 small rifle primer. I didn't chronograph it but it gave considerable more recoil than I expected. Anyone know anything about a similar load?
____________________
Reloader since 1969.
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 12th, 2007 03:51 PM |
|
24th Post |
billt
Guest
| Joined: | |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | |
| Photo: | | | Are you a handloader?: | | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | | | My favorite chambering is:: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
I'm curious why you selected a small rifle primer? It might be hotter, causing more rapid ignition of the Red Dot, which is quite fast burning. 4.5 grains of it doesn't sound very hot but my Hornady manual lists 4.3 grains as maximum with a 140 grain bullet and a standard small pistol primer. I would drop a full grain, and switch to a standard small pistol primer. I think you'll see things settle down quite a bit. Bill T.
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 12th, 2007 04:28 PM |
|
25th Post |
72coupe
HB certified Master Handloading and Ballistics advisor
| Joined: | Sun Jun 11th, 2006 |
| Location: | Iowa Park, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 2016 |
| Photo: | | | Are you a handloader?: | | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | | | My favorite chambering is:: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
I was out of small pistol primers.
____________________
Reloader since 1969.
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 26th, 2007 01:31 PM |
|
26th Post |
Riposte1
HB Pro Staff
| Joined: | Mon Jul 10th, 2006 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 50 |
| Photo: | | | Are you a handloader?: | | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | | | My favorite chambering is:: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
72coupe wrote: I just loaded 75 rounds of 148 grain plated bullets with 4.5 grains of Red Dot and a Remington 6 1/2 small rifle primer. I didn't chronograph it but it gave considerable more recoil than I expected. Anyone know anything about a similar load?
The old Classice "hot" load was 5 grs of Red dot with a 158 SWC. I found that it never gave 1,000 fps in a 2" like the manuals claimed but it did give an honest 900.
Your 148 Wadcutter is probably a lot further down in the case and I can only guess but I bet it is just about as hot as 5 grs with a 158 SWC...air space is the big thing in revolver cases...seating the bullet 1/8" deaper can double the pressure!
Riposte
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 26th, 2007 11:36 PM |
|
27th Post |
72coupe
HB certified Master Handloading and Ballistics advisor
| Joined: | Sun Jun 11th, 2006 |
| Location: | Iowa Park, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 2016 |
| Photo: | | | Are you a handloader?: | | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | | | My favorite chambering is:: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
I think your analysis is spot on.
____________________
Reloader since 1969.
|
| Posted: Sat Jan 27th, 2007 02:15 AM |
|
28th Post |
armoredman
Master Ballistician and Handloader
| Joined: | Sat Apr 8th, 2006 |
| Location: | Arizona USA |
| Posts: | 539 |
| Photo: | [Download] | | Are you a handloader?: | Yes | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | rifle | | My favorite chambering is:: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
Just picked up a 10-5, 5" bbl, trigger is incredible. Ordered the 4 die Lee set, but have zero brass/bullets - new range said I could not scavenge, so I'll have to buy brass. At least I can use the same primers and powders I use for 9mm, until I get something specific to the 38 spl.
____________________
If total government control equals safety, why are prisons so dangerous?
|
| Posted: Sat Jan 27th, 2007 01:24 PM |
|
29th Post |
LAH
HB Life Member
| Joined: | Fri Feb 11th, 2005 |
| Location: | In The Hardwoods |
| Posts: | 179 |
| Photo: | | | Are you a handloader?: | Yes | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | I load everything! | | My favorite chambering is:: | 44 Magnum |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
The nice thing about shooting & load the 38 is plenty of brass out there. Last I sold was 25.00 per 1000. Bullets are the same way. I've shot plenty of this guys stuff over the last 5 years or so. buletdoc@usit.net
For brass maybe: http://www.brassmanbrass.com/
____________________
Dry Creek Bullet Works
Dry Creek Firewood
|
| Posted: Sat Jan 27th, 2007 09:47 PM |
|
30th Post |
Timberghozt
Board Founder
| Joined: | Fri Feb 11th, 2005 |
| Location: | Texas USA |
| Posts: | 6794 |
| Photo: | [Download] | | Are you a handloader?: | Yes | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | I load everything! | | My favorite chambering is:: | 300 Winchester Magnum ... |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
I don`t know why but I tried Unique in my Ruger BlackHawk shooting cast bullets.It went from a 2 and a 1/2 inch group at 25 yards..to all over the page..wtf???
I am tempted to throw it in the back of my powder cabinet and just continue shooting the Power Pistol,4.6 grain load of with 158 grain hard cast..
I figured Unigue would be a winner,instead its a dud in that pistol.
____________________
"He who fights with monsters might take care, lest he thereby become a monster; For if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - F.Nietzche
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 14th, 2007 12:32 AM |
|
31st Post |
jjb2
Handloading Master
| Joined: | Thu Jul 5th, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 770 |
| Photo: | | | Are you a handloader?: | Yes | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | pistol | | My favorite chambering is:: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
i STILL load .38 spls more than anything for my s&w model 27.. i like 3-3.2 grs of bullseye under a 150 gr homecast lead swc.. seems like .38 spl brass was easier to find when i was looking so i bought em a few thound of them.. the old smith likes that load too! the 3.2 gr load is such a pleasure to shoot and very accurate..
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 14th, 2007 05:02 AM |
|
32nd Post |
caz223
Handloading Master
| Joined: | Sun May 29th, 2005 |
| Location: | Michigan USA |
| Posts: | 448 |
| Photo: | | | Are you a handloader?: | Yes | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | pistol | | My favorite chambering is:: | .41 magnum |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
I do like power pistol in .38, for some reason.
I got about 1600 rounds in stock for it, and they're a joy to shoot.
It's 125 grain JHP star/zero bullets, 6.2-6.3 grains power pistol, and it shoots like a magnum round, but with less oomph. It's +p.
____________________
I'm not just a gun, I'm YOUR gun. (Hold me!)
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 14th, 2007 05:09 PM |
|
33rd Post |
armoredman
Master Ballistician and Handloader
| Joined: | Sat Apr 8th, 2006 |
| Location: | Arizona USA |
| Posts: | 539 |
| Photo: | [Download] | | Are you a handloader?: | Yes | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | rifle | | My favorite chambering is:: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
38spl rocks. Smith 10-8.
____________________
If total government control equals safety, why are prisons so dangerous?
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 14th, 2007 05:59 PM |
|
34th Post |
caz223
Handloading Master
| Joined: | Sun May 29th, 2005 |
| Location: | Michigan USA |
| Posts: | 448 |
| Photo: | | | Are you a handloader?: | Yes | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | pistol | | My favorite chambering is:: | .41 magnum |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
Awesome pics.
I used to shoot the M10 heavy barrel more, but I recently taught a 21 year old woman to shoot (My best friend's GF.) and I noticed that my .357 magnum rounds I brought along as well could easily be chambered and fired, and then I started shuddering, noticing how much they looked alike to someone just starting out.
So, I have several .357 magnum guns that now only eat .38 spl., and never shoot my .38 because I'm paranoid that a full powered .357 would get in there and give me or a friend an extra orifice....
I think I'm gonna put the .38 in the back of the safe, and only run wadcutters in it, that will solve my problems. Yeah, I'm OCD, but it keeps me alive. Kinda.
Last edited on Fri Sep 14th, 2007 06:00 PM by caz223
____________________
I'm not just a gun, I'm YOUR gun. (Hold me!)
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 14th, 2007 06:16 PM |
|
35th Post |
armoredman
Master Ballistician and Handloader
| Joined: | Sat Apr 8th, 2006 |
| Location: | Arizona USA |
| Posts: | 539 |
| Photo: | [Download] | | Are you a handloader?: | Yes | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | rifle | | My favorite chambering is:: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
If your 38 Spl is chambering .357 Mag ammo, you have BIG problem. there is no way the 357 case should fit in a 38Spl chamber, so if it is, you either have seriously short 357 brass, or a ridiculously overlong 38 cylinder/frame. Take that to a gunsmith an check it out. Yikes.
____________________
If total government control equals safety, why are prisons so dangerous?
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 14th, 2007 07:30 PM |
|
36th Post |
caz223
Handloading Master
| Joined: | Sun May 29th, 2005 |
| Location: | Michigan USA |
| Posts: | 448 |
| Photo: | | | Are you a handloader?: | Yes | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | pistol | | My favorite chambering is:: | .41 magnum |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
Nope, that's what I thought, until by random chance I TRIED to load it with .357 to see if it would fit. It did.
It's a model 10, .38 spl heavy barrel, just like your pics. I loaded it with standard length .357 mag brass and 125 grain bullets seated to the cannelure. They chambered fine and did not protrude from the chamber, much less interfere with the window. That's when I got nausea and put it in the back of my safe.
Incidentally, that's also when I stopped loading .357 mag ammo, I have a bag or 2 left for a rainy day, but it's plainly labeled, and I have a lot of .38 spl. laying around.
It makes me shudder to think that there were 3 bags of .38 spl ammo, and 2 bags of .357 magnum ammo in my can, and 3 .357 magnums and 1 .38 spl that could eat but not digest the hot stuff.....All in close proximity to a woman that had never handled a pistol before and wouldn't know the difference. I could have wrecked it all..........
The barrel is stamped 38 S.&W. SPECIAL CTG., there is no mistake. The ammo, IIRC included medium power 125 grain star JHP and full powered 140 grain WIN or REM JHP, both seated to the proper depth, not shorted at all. The 140s were full powered rounds that would have blown that gun to smithereens. I bet my buddy's HOT rounds made for his .357 blackhawk would fit in there too, but it wouldn't be pretty.
You got the same gun, right? Check it out for yourself. Inquiring minds want to know....
Last edited on Fri Sep 14th, 2007 08:18 PM by caz223
____________________
I'm not just a gun, I'm YOUR gun. (Hold me!)
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 14th, 2007 08:03 PM |
|
37th Post |
caz223
Handloading Master
| Joined: | Sun May 29th, 2005 |
| Location: | Michigan USA |
| Posts: | 448 |
| Photo: | | | Are you a handloader?: | Yes | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | pistol | | My favorite chambering is:: | .41 magnum |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
Mathmatically, it's not SUPPOSED to work like this.
I flipped open my Hornady #7, and got a COL of .357 magnum bullets, all jacketed .357 bullets have a COL of 1.590"
According to my dial calipers, my COL WAS 1.590, and it still is. Exactly.
According to the same dial calipers, my cylinder check out at 1.560" So it won't work, right?
WRONG. The rim faces to the cylinder, and mine is not recessed, making it look like the round is supposed to be in there. It looks at home in there.
The rim is .050" thick, meaning if the round was 1.610", it may still chamber, rotate, and fire.
There's that lump forming in my throat again.
Even the 180 grain silhouette bullets have a standard length of 1.590"
So, what do I do now?
Check your M10, will it chamber the rounds in your ammo bag?
Do you have a model 10 with a recessed cylinder? Does it make a difference? How deep is the original recess ? Will it chamber a .357 round 1.590" in length?
Last edited on Fri Sep 14th, 2007 08:16 PM by caz223
____________________
I'm not just a gun, I'm YOUR gun. (Hold me!)
|
| Posted: Sat Sep 15th, 2007 01:17 AM |
|
38th Post |
armoredman
Master Ballistician and Handloader
| Joined: | Sat Apr 8th, 2006 |
| Location: | Arizona USA |
| Posts: | 539 |
| Photo: | [Download] | | Are you a handloader?: | Yes | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | rifle | | My favorite chambering is:: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
I don't have a 357, or any ammo, sorry. My 10-8 is the only wheelgun I own. I do like it.
If I find a 357 case I'll load a lead bullet over no powder, and try it myself.
____________________
If total government control equals safety, why are prisons so dangerous?
|
| Posted: Sat Sep 15th, 2007 01:19 AM |
|
39th Post |
72coupe
HB certified Master Handloading and Ballistics advisor
| Joined: | Sun Jun 11th, 2006 |
| Location: | Iowa Park, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 2016 |
| Photo: | | | Are you a handloader?: | | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | | | My favorite chambering is:: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
I'll try to find a 357 cartridge to see if it will load into my old junky Taurus.
____________________
Reloader since 1969.
|
| Posted: Sat Sep 15th, 2007 07:43 AM |
|
40th Post |
caz223
Handloading Master
| Joined: | Sun May 29th, 2005 |
| Location: | Michigan USA |
| Posts: | 448 |
| Photo: | | | Are you a handloader?: | Yes | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | pistol | | My favorite chambering is:: | .41 magnum |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
Mine's a 10-6.
If you got a minute, no need the grab a .357 cartridge, just check the length of the cylinder, and if the chamber's recessed. If it's over 1.540" than yours willl chamber .357 too, providing it's not recessed.
Last edited on Sat Sep 15th, 2007 07:44 AM by caz223
____________________
I'm not just a gun, I'm YOUR gun. (Hold me!)
|
| Current time is 06:45 PM | Page:   1 2 3 4   |
|
