| Posted: Tue May 2nd, 2006 04:02 PM |
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| Posted: Wed May 3rd, 2006 04:04 PM |
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armoredman
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Interesting, thank you.
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| Posted: Thu May 4th, 2006 01:24 AM |
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Timberghozt
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Good read bea..Great link.It is very interesting though theye don`t list the 165 grain CORBONS I keep loaded in my SIG229..
.40 Smith & Wesson Caliber:
One Shot Stopping Success: 71-96% (Actual)
Self Defense Rating: Best
Recommended Cartridges: Cor-Bon "Nosler" JHP 135 grains 96% Federal JHP 155 grains 94% Remington "Golden Saber" JHP 165 grains 94% Federal "Hydra-Shok" JHP 155 grains 93% Cor-Bon JHP 150 grains 92% Winchester "Silvertip" JHP 155 grains 91% Federal "Hydra-Shok" JHP 180 grains 89% Cor-Bon +P JHP 180 grains 86% This relatively new caliber is establishing an excellent record in real world shootings as a potent self defense round. Penetration can be expected to range from 10 to 12 inches. The lighter bullet choices in this caliber, manufactured by any of the top five producers, have the edge over the heavier 180 grain loads. Recoil of the 135 to 155 grain rounds is also less.
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| Posted: Thu May 4th, 2006 04:47 AM |
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bea175
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I like the Speer Gold Dot HP in the 9mm and 357 mag. I just loaded 500 rounds of 158 gr Speer GD , 16.6 gr Win 296 , CCI 550 , new Starline brass for my Ruger 6 inch GP100 357 Mag . This will be my hunting load in the 357 .
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22nd, 2006 01:35 AM |
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22nd, 2006 04:14 AM |
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Charley
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This site does it without all the cutsy pictures and twinkly crap. It's also in a readable font.
http://www.handloads.com/misc/stoppingpower.asp
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22nd, 2006 04:20 AM |
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Future US Soldier
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Yeah that is better thanks,
I'm gonna go check it out right know.
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| Posted: Fri Jun 23rd, 2006 10:23 PM |
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klallen
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OK guys, this darn topic got me again. It always happens when it pops up on these sites so I thought this time I'd throw a comment in.
When I read the title I thought we were discussing real power. I mean the big stuff ment for heavy muscle and bone of big game. Was all excited to read and talk about the cartridges developing energies in excess of 1000# using hard hitting, deep penetrating bullets ... .375 SuperMag, .44 RemMag, .45 WinMag, .454 Casull, .50 AE, .500 S&W Mag (personal fav's) and the like.
Then I saw we were talking about game of the two-legged persuasion and lost a little steam. Always smile when I hear the term "stopping power" with regards to human targets. I mean, I know it's the right use of the term, but honestly, I see "stopping power" and I associate it with big game power. Can't help it. Comparitively speaking, it don't take much at all to do the job on us humans. When the lil' 9mm can do the job effectively (when loaded properly and shot accurately), it should probably indicate the true lack of power that's really needed to incapacitate us. I do enjoy reading these comparison reports on the small stuff though. I don't really know what relavence they have but it's an interesting read, none the less. I read where one says my .357 Sig and it's 125 gr. bullet has a higher one-hit stopping percentage then does my 10mm Auto and it's 180 gr. bullet. Hmmmm. Something seems a little hay-whire with this. Am I supposed to conclude from these #'s that an accurately shot .357 Sig is more potent then a 10mm Auto shot with equalled accuracy? I don't. I can't. A 125 or a 180 square in the chest with a self-defense purpose bullet ... I know which one I'd prefer to be delivering as the defender. I think more then anything, this make more a comment towards the shooter of said cartridge then any real difference in killability of the cartridges. When ya think about it, you quickly realize how silly it is to try and label the .25-06 or .270 or .280 or .30-06 as a better deer catcher. They all do the job and do it well. The x factor is the shooter. That's how I feel with these one-shot stop percentages and trying to use them to label a handgun cartridge better then another. Isn't it just as silly? When they'll all do the job? The x factor was, is and will always be the shooter. Not the cartridge. 'Specially on a weak target such as humans. For you fellers that love discussing the prowess of the smaller rounds, don't take this as a cut or rip. It's not intended that way. It's just my take on a topic I, once again, got tricked into participating with ;o) . Take it easy. >> klallen
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| Posted: Fri Jun 23rd, 2006 11:22 PM |
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Future US Soldier
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Well I saw a live test taking place and a 9mm won't stop a drunk fat guy that's trying really hard to take you down but one shot from a 45 or higher will take him down like nothing to it it's just the fact's. Last edited on Fri Jun 23rd, 2006 11:23 PM by Future US Soldier
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| Posted: Sat Jun 24th, 2006 01:53 PM |
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klallen
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US Soldier wrote: Well I saw a live test taking place and a 9mm won't stop a drunk fat guy that's trying really hard to take you down but one shot from a 45 or higher will take him down like nothing to it it's just the fact's.
Morning US S >> So is this a commentary on the power of the .45 and the weakness of the 9, or is it simply perfect bullet placement with the .45 and poor placement with the 9? That's the point. With the x factor involved (the shooter) and the human error that goes along with that, I draw as much meaningful conclusion out of your statment above as I do those one-shot stop percentages. Take care. >> klallen
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| Posted: Sat Jun 24th, 2006 02:11 PM |
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Timberghozt
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I wouldn`t think so lowly of the 9mm in power.I personally know of a 1st Armored Division,M1 Abrams commander whose tank was hit and damaged to the extent they couldn`t move,his gunner and loader both wounded.He crawled out of his hatch with his M9 Beretta and shot 3 times killing three Iraqis with AKs that intended to finish off his crew.You`re talking men that are high on adrenaline and intent to kill,each one stopped with one round each of 9mm ball ammo..Not too bad when a 9mm is all ya have,is it?
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| Posted: Sun Jun 25th, 2006 05:21 PM |
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Future US Soldier
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I didn't say it was bad cause yeah klallen if you stop and try to shoot at his head then yes you can plow it up you can do that with an .22 but also Timberghozt I agree with you I do like the M9 Bertta is a good firearm and it can take down just as good as most any other things but I myself perfur the 45 just cause it's how I was raised I don't disagree I used to want a 9mm and I don't really know what changed my mind I might still buy one just for fun you know just to have it.
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| Posted: Sun Jun 25th, 2006 06:32 PM |
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Timberghozt
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I prefer a 45 acp over a 9mm myself also.I f I could find a real compact 9mm that fit me good and was easy to carry,I`d snatch it up though.I beleive the same as with an animal that bullet placement stops not necessarily how heavy the bullet or how much velocity... and the 9mm with a good solid hit can do it easily.
Bea175 and Charley swear by 9mm`s.Both those fellas are old enough to be my dad and know more about guns than I probably ever will.If its good enough for them to carry,I wouldn`t hesitate to stick one in my pants..
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"He who fights with monsters might take care, lest he thereby become a monster; For if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - F.Nietzche
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| Posted: Sun Jun 25th, 2006 08:27 PM |
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Charley
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Bea175 and Charley swear by 9mm`s.Both those fellas are old enough to be my dad and know more about guns than I probably ever will.If its good enough for them to carry,I wouldn`t hesitate to stick one in my pants..
Wait, wait, wait a minute! I never said I "swear" by a 9x19! My primary carry gun is a .45 ACP. I DO carry a small 9x19 at times, and I do not feel underarmed with it.
IMO, and my opinion only, I would rather carry a 9x19 loaded with a modern, high proformance JHP, than any .45 ACP with 230 grain ball.
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| Posted: Sun Jun 25th, 2006 08:30 PM |
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Timberghozt
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hahahaha..lol.Charley..You are now pegged for a 9mmm man.lolI agree though,rather have the .45 but a 9mm works alright too..
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"He who fights with monsters might take care, lest he thereby become a monster; For if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - F.Nietzche
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| Posted: Sun Jun 25th, 2006 09:27 PM |
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saddlesore
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Strange at how we are all good at surmising this and that, and reading tables and charts about stopping power, but the guys in the fore front who darn well know what it takes, are now wanting the US services to reissue the 45, as the 9's aren't doing the job. Maybe with the Gold dots, etc, but they sure don't cut it with ball ammo./
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| Posted: Sun Jun 25th, 2006 11:51 PM |
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Hammer
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What is ya'll's opinion of the controversy concerning Sanow & Marshall's data ?
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26th, 2006 06:42 AM |
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Future US Soldier
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Good I think they should give the US military back there 45's but yeah defenitlly put better rounds in them than balls.
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26th, 2006 12:38 PM |
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Charley
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Hammer wrote: What is ya'll's opinion of the controversy concerning Sanow & Marshall's data ?
Lot's of folks don't like them, and I've seen reports by some staisticians slamming their conclusions. I think they are reasonably accurate, more than most.
Strange at how we are all good at surmising this and that, and reading tables and charts about stopping power, but the guys in the fore front who darn well know what it takes, are now wanting the US services to reissue the 45, as the 9's aren't doing the job. Maybe with the Gold dots, etc, but they sure don't cut it with ball ammo./
I don't think anyone is arguing that 9x19 ball is a good stopper! Nothing new in this world, I've seen many reports ofUS troops (and others) being hit with 9x19 in Europe, usually from machine pistols. Many times they were able to kill the shooter.
When Hornady brought out their flatnose FMJ about twenty years ago, they tried to sell it to the public (and the DOD) as a way to increase the hsock and stopping power of the cartridge. All they did was copy the original bullet profile that the 9x19 had first been loaded with in 1908.
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26th, 2006 05:39 PM |
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Future US Soldier
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What is this "Sanow & Marshall's data" thing all about I would like to know.
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