| Posted: Wed May 11th, 2005 05:44 PM |
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TwoBeards
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When I purchased my contender it came with 2 barrels a 30-30 and a 44 mag. The previous owner told me that he never shot the 44 mag as he believes that it has been modified. He told me not to use it. This is my first contender so I dont know what the specs are supposed to be but what I have is the bore measures .486 Dia. and the throat is 3.225 deep. it is a 10 inch barrel so that only leaves a little less than 7 inches of rifiling. Is this normal for a contender? It still has the original 44 mag rifiling and choke. Does this sound modified? I can slip a 444 marlin round in it perfectly. Im no gun smith or builder (yet) but it seems if it was still chambered for a .44 mag then I wouldnt be able to put a 444 marlin in it as it would be to long. Any help in this would be greatfully appreciated. Jimmy
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| Posted: Thu May 12th, 2005 12:39 AM |
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Timberghozt
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Hey Two beards..If you can put a 444 Marlin cartridge in it,you do not have anywheres near a 44 mag.Dont fire it with a 44 mag or a 444 yet.I will look at the specs of the 444Marlin and see what I can find with the dimensions you have..It might take a little while, Earthlink is having its monthly period and keeps kicking me offline..
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| Posted: Thu May 12th, 2005 12:52 AM |
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TwoBeards
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Thanks Timberghozt I really do appreciate it. Dont worry about me firing it, Im gonna wait till I find out a little more about it. again thanks alot. Jimmy
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| Posted: Thu May 12th, 2005 02:17 AM |
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Timberghozt
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Hey Two beards.The dimensions are off for a 444.I`ll dig at it some more and see.Some of you big bore afficionados take a crack at this one.The cartridge length on the 444 is 2.225 but the diameter of the chamber is off quite a bit for the 444..
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| Posted: Thu May 12th, 2005 05:01 AM |
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drinks
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Twobeards;
The .44mag should be a bore of .422/ groove of .429, +- .002, the chamber should not be more than 1.7" long.
I have no idea what someone has done to your barrel, tomorrow I shall research the dimensions you have posted and give you my best guess .
Don
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| Posted: Thu May 12th, 2005 06:11 AM |
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TwoBeards
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I really appreciate all that you folks are doing, I really hope its not where I have to throw it away but better that than blowing myself up. If it still able to be converted to something else would be better than tossing it. I have a feeling its probably unsafe and worthless but I got to know before I toss it. Thanks again all I really do appreciate it. Jimmy
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| Posted: Thu May 12th, 2005 04:00 PM |
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bea175
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I could be wrong but it sounds like someone has bored the chamber to take the 410 shotgun shell. Your best bet is to take to a qualitified smith and get a chamber cast and see what you have.
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| Posted: Thu May 12th, 2005 04:02 PM |
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saddlesore
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44 mag SAMMI Chamber specs. 1.200 from breech face to end of chamber ( then there is a taper)(. Head dia is .519+/- .002, .060/.070 deep. Dia .200 in from breech face is .4598. Dia at end of 1.200 is .4582. Total length of chamber including taper at crimp is 1.374. Bore is .424, Groove is .431
444 marlin : 2.000 from breech face dia is .4564. .200 in from breech face is .4707. Total length from breech face to end of taper is 2.2508.
Head dia is .524 +/- .012, .063/.070 deep. Bore.424, Groove is .430.
3.225 is still long for a max bullet AOL of a.444 of 2.570
The chamber bore of a 45-70 is .5067, so that doesn't fit either, and total cartridge AOL is only 2.530.
The .45 colt chamber is .4862, but the 3.225 is way too long, but of course the bore would be too small in dia, if it is in fact still 44 mag specs.
Note NRA has Handloading , hardcover manul by William C. Davis that contains all SAMMI specs for cartridges and Chambers.
Last edited on Thu May 12th, 2005 04:04 PM by saddlesore
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| Posted: Thu May 12th, 2005 08:37 PM |
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saddlesore
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Another thought occurred to me today. Since the chamber looks like 45 colt diameter dimensions, perhaps they were trying to make a .410/45 barrel, A .410 shotgun shell fits a 45 colt chamber, only longer. I don't now about the 3" .410, but a 2 1/2" .410 would certainly fit it. What I don't know is the bore diameter. and how a .410 shot cup would pass though a .429 barrel, if in fact it is a .44 mag barrel .
My gut feeling tells me it would work, but my cautious side says maybe it has too much constriction. If a .410 shell fits it, instead of just throwing it away, my inclination would be to have it bored out smooth to a .410 barrel diamenter or ahve it bored out to 45 colt and leave the long chamber to fit a .410.. The extra long chamber on the 45 colt would affect accuracy somewhat, but it's anybody's guess as to how much.
The boring should be pretty cheap.
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| Posted: Thu May 12th, 2005 08:52 PM |
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drinks
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What I can't figure is the .486 bore, if this is the bore size, even .004 deep rifling would make it .492, with extra deep rifling, .007, it would be .500, the only thing in current production I know of that is .500 is the S&W .500, but it does not have a 3" +- case length.
Might need to start over with some new measurements, the only thing even close is the .475 Westley-Richards and it is undersize by .010 at .476 groove diameter.
Don
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| Posted: Thu May 12th, 2005 09:54 PM |
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saddlesore
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I took it that the chamber bore was .486, not the rifle bore. I don't know what is meant that it still has the 44 mag bore and CHOKE. ( the choke part of it.)
A 45 colt bore would be somewhere around .450
If it's bigger, I don't know what the heck it would be.
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| Posted: Thu May 12th, 2005 11:07 PM |
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TwoBeards
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saddlesore wrote: I took it that the chamber bore was .486, not the rifle bore. I don't know what is meant that it still has the 44 mag bore and CHOKE. ( the choke part of it.)
A 45 colt bore would be somewhere around .450
If it's bigger, I don't know what the heck it would be.
The contender 44 mag barrel I am told has a screw in choke which this does but when You look at it with a bore light the rifiling in the choke is straight and the rifling in the bore is twisted and they (the rifiling) dont even line up.. I think I will have it bored smooth and just shoot 410 shotgun out of it. The choke rifiling measures .442 in the grooves and .385 on the lands. If any one would be interested in looking at this barrel I will gladly pay shipping both ways on it. I will even pay to have it worked to fit something! Most of the contender barrels are running $150.00 and up so if this barrel can be reworked to fire something even shot gun for less than the cost of a new barrel Id be very willing to pay to have it done. I want to thank all of you for your fantastic work and help. If anyone is interested in looking at this barrel I sure would appreciate it. Thanks Jimmy jlaviary@celectcom.net
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| Posted: Thu May 12th, 2005 11:24 PM |
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TwoBeards
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I just got a call from the guy I got the contender from and he tells me he just found out that the guy he got it from bored the chamber so he could shoot .410 shotgun shells out of it. I would of thought that if your gonna take the time to rebore a chamber why not take a little more time and make it a smooth bore? So I still dont know if I can shoot a 45 long colt out of it if it still has the original 44 mag rifiling? The other question I have wouldnt that be illegal a 10 inch 410 shotgun hand gun? I dont know what to do now Thanks all for your wonderful help any suggestions as what to do now would be appreciated. Jimmy
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| Posted: Fri May 13th, 2005 12:16 AM |
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bea175
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Illegal only if he bored out all of the rifling , you can shoot the 44 SPL in it but don't know if it will be very accurate.
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| Posted: Fri May 13th, 2005 12:33 AM |
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TwoBeards
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Thanks so much everyone!!!! I really do appreciate all the help and advice and your knowlege is very much appreciated and your willingness to share it. I have found a home here and will be a regular as long as you can tolerate my occassional curosity and questions. You all are a super bunch and proud to be a part of it. Jimmy
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| Posted: Fri May 13th, 2005 01:00 AM |
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drinks
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TB;
About the only thing I could think of that might shoot would be .410 slugs.
If you make a smoothbore out of it, it would be illegal, a smoothbore modern arm has to have a 18" barrel and a butt stock.
The minimum shotgun that is legal is the snakecharmer mini .410, still has a 18" barrel
Don
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| Posted: Fri May 13th, 2005 02:11 AM |
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Timberghozt
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TwoBeards wrote: Thanks so much everyone!!!! I really do appreciate all the help and advice and your knowlege is very much appreciated and your willingness to share it. I have found a home here and will be a regular as long as you can tolerate my occassional curosity and questions. You all are a super bunch and proud to be a part of it. Jimmy Hey TwoBeards..Ask all the questions you want or if you are curious about something post it too.Thats what this site is for.I know if I only talked to myself about reloading,shooting and hunting it would get boring quick.Half the time I learn something new when somebody asks a question and I like to help anybody out that I can with a little knowledge...I`m sure all these fellas here are the same way..
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| Posted: Fri May 13th, 2005 04:04 AM |
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saddlesore
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I would have it bored with 45 colt rifling dimensions,even if the lands ends up some what shallow. Then it would be legal. Leaving it 44 mag rifling dimensions and someone accidently puts a 45 colt in it and you are going to have serious consequences.
I just reread all the post, and didn't see bea175's post about the .410 bore before I posted mine. Didn't mean to steal his thunder.
Some accurate measuremenst of .410 slugs and .410 shot cups will answer the question if it has too much constriction. I use to make some 45-70 shotshells using .410 shotcups and the shotcups were too small to fit snuggly into a 45-70 case. ( same bullet dia as a 45 colt). I was able to wrap a piece of 3x5 card stcok around the shotcup to make it fit perfectly, but a little lose..
.410 slugs are aout as useful as tits on a boar, and if the constrcition is too great, they would pose a greater risk than the shotshells.
BTW, I shot my 1st whitetail many many years ago with a 45 colt slug fired from a single shot .410 shotgun. This particular gun had at least 1/4" of steel around the breech. When your poor and have to make meat, you use what you have.
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| Posted: Fri May 13th, 2005 04:22 AM |
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| Posted: Fri May 13th, 2005 04:50 AM |
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drinks
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The .410 slug is actually .410 dia. it would be way undersize for the groove diameter of the choke, at .430 something.
This thing sounds like something that should make a poor trotline weight.
Don
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