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miestro_jerry
HB Life Member
| Joined: | 28 June 2008 |
| Location: | Somerton (AKA BFE), Ohio USA |
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Posted: 13 July 2008 07:57 PM |
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I am a die hard 1911 fan, I owned many over the years, some I wish I still had, other were just O.K.
Last year I ran into a young Marine probably in his mid 20s at most, he had served two tours in Iraq. He was looking for a Sig P220, a very nice 45. He said that he didn't like the M9 and preferred the Sig in 45 ACP. He wanted DA for his pistol. He bought it and I asked if I paid for the range time, could I try it out. I ended up paying for range time, a couple boxes of ammo and lunch.
If it was the decades long love affair that I have with the 1911, would have gone for a Sig a a while ago when I knew the P210 was a service pistol in Europe. Well, I went out and bought a P220 in 45 ACP. I enjoy shooting it.
It is an excellent pistol that I would be proud to take into combat. But these days combat is with a g'hog or a coyote.
Anyone else have one of these?
Jerry
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ohiococonut
HB Pro Staff
| Joined: | 10 April 2007 |
| Location: | Central, Ohio USA |
| Posts: | 87 |
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Posted: 15 July 2008 12:57 AM |
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Jerry,
I bought a Sig220 about a month ago but haven't had the time to shoot it. What I got was the newer SAO model with the ambi-safety and beavertail, not the standard model with the double action and hammer release. If I'm going to carry, I prefer cocked and locked, which is why I chose this model.
If it's as accurate and reliable as my P226 & P229 I'll be more than happy. Now if it didn't have the rail mount on the bottom I'd be even happier. It's the closest thing Sig makes to a true 1911.
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miestro_jerry
HB Life Member
| Joined: | 28 June 2008 |
| Location: | Somerton (AKA BFE), Ohio USA |
| Posts: | 625 |
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Posted: 15 July 2008 02:02 AM |
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Ohiococonuts,
I like the Sigs. Even cocked and locked it is a very superior weapon. I was looking a DA pistol in 45 and talked to a lot of people, but the young Marine so the information that made me buy mine.
In the Army I carried the 1911a as it was, but also carried an issued S&W revolver in 38 Spl. The 1911 was a better pistol to carry into combat in my opinion. I had never done any tests to see how much stopping power the 45 ACP has, but it worked for me.
I was raised in the world where the two most dependable pistols were the Colt 1911 and the Browning Hi Power. People may disagreement with me for various reasons, but both pistols properly taken care of have never failed me. The problem has been the lack of a DA pistol in a quality pistol and I do recognize the need for DA. During one of my travels I was reading that Sigs were most used pistol by Police Departments in the industrialized world. The Swiss had used the P210 for many years with no complaints, before switching over to newer Sigs, the P220.
Unless there is something like Red Dawn or Jericho happens, it is highly doubtful that I will ever see combat again I am just getting too old, but I do carry a pistol or a rifle on my property for ground hogs and coyotes. In recent times, there have been a lot of trespassers in my area and without making any motions towards my pistol or rifle, no one has jumped my fence, once the word got out about the property owner's rights to protect their homes under the Castle Doctrine. Plus I have the offcial NRA Warning signs posted on my property
But back to the Sig, it hits the bullseye for me and I haven't figured out to make it better yet. I do own several Kimber and really like them for being 1911s.
Where in Central Ohio do you live, I used to live in Westerville.
Jerry
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Dirtkicker
addicted handloader
| Joined: | 3 September 2007 |
| Location: | High Plains |
| Posts: | 334 |
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Posted: 15 July 2008 03:05 AM |
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Well, whenever we start with "the best x, y, z" I figure "There ain't no such thing."
I wanna know who, what, where, why, and whichever.
Everything depends on situation, circumstance, and personal preference.
I swear by my Kimber CDP 4" but wouldn't even think of trying to tell anybody else it would be "the best" for them. Works for me; may not for you.
As a philosophical exercise, "What's the best?" can be a lot of fun, but in the Real World-- don't mean a thing!
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Charley
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| Joined: | 9 September 2005 |
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Posted: 15 July 2008 03:32 AM |
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| I'm still partial to my Para P12, carried cocked and locked. No super-duper extractor, no LDA bells and whistles, just a doublestack 1911. It goes bang every time.
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miestro_jerry
HB Life Member
| Joined: | 28 June 2008 |
| Location: | Somerton (AKA BFE), Ohio USA |
| Posts: | 625 |
| Photo: | [Download] | | Are you a handloader?: | Yes | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | I load everything! |
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Posted: 15 July 2008 03:32 AM |
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Kicker,
I realize that for the individual stating the best would be difficult, how about Army wide? Then for the silly forces people? Think in groups, also think about the ease of repair and rebuild, which the 1911 holds that ease hands down.
And I like my Kimber Ultra Carry II, but would it be the best pistol in an armed insurrection? How about for a police force. My oldest carries a Glock 17 on duty and a "Lady Smith" off duty. I really am not a fan of the Glocks, even though I own one. Plus at one time I carried a S&W Model 39, which I thought it was the best in it's class, but time has changed my mind on that pistol. It is still a good pistol, but it's time has passed.
Tomorrow while working out in my fields, I will be packing my Sig. I rotate thru my pistols when I am on my property, it keeps me up on which one does what.
If you were the platoon or company officer for a basic or light infantry unit, what would be your choice for a practical side arm?
Jerry
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miestro_jerry
HB Life Member
| Joined: | 28 June 2008 |
| Location: | Somerton (AKA BFE), Ohio USA |
| Posts: | 625 |
| Photo: | [Download] | | Are you a handloader?: | Yes | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | I load everything! |
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Posted: 15 July 2008 03:43 AM |
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Charley,
I like the Paras, weren't they the first double stacked 1911? My problem has always been weight. A heavy pistol in a tactical holster is not a problem, but as a kidney cover or under my arm, it won't work. As that I have not been in todays U.S. combat uniforms with vests and and all the assorted things that soldiers carry these day, I think a chest holster would not work either.
Plus I do like to carry all of the ammo I can.
Jerry
Last edited on 15 July 2008 04:07 AM by miestro_jerry
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miestro_jerry
HB Life Member
| Joined: | 28 June 2008 |
| Location: | Somerton (AKA BFE), Ohio USA |
| Posts: | 625 |
| Photo: | [Download] | | Are you a handloader?: | Yes | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | I load everything! |
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Posted: 15 July 2008 04:32 AM |
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I remember what the Sûreté's Anti Hijacking aquad carried back in the 70s. It was a Korth 357 Magnum revolver. They carried KTW bullets in them. The idea was to be able to shoot through the skin of an airplane and kill the hijacker. The problem with this concept was what if the hijacker was holding a grenade with the pin pulled?
These pistols were very expensive and the Sûreté personnel were very good with them. Would I want the police to carry such fire power, probably not, would I want the Officer and NCOs of an Infantry Platoon to carry these, maybe, but most likely not. Besides capacity, the 357 Mag has some over pentration issues.
The problem with the revolvers were the 6 shoots they are limitd to, where as the 1911s introduced magazines to the military pistols for all the officers. I have handled the M1917 pistol outside of the military settings. It is a nice basic revolver, but you need to carry half moon clips, so reloading can be a slow situation in a combat setting.
If we wanted more kaboom with the 45, there is always the 45 Win Mag. That is a lot of Kaboom, but these days, there is a 45 ACP +P ammo on the market.
So for a service pistol, what makes the most sense for the members of the U.S. armed forces? Not long ago, the military was re-examining the M9 service pistol for replacement. The 1911 spent many decades in service and the M9 has only been in service from the 1980s forward. The Spec Ops people carry what every they want apparently, but I hear they like the 45 ACP.
As that Colt is busy making M4s, what would be the best next combat 45?
Jerry
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Dirtkicker
addicted handloader
| Joined: | 3 September 2007 |
| Location: | High Plains |
| Posts: | 334 |
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Posted: 15 July 2008 05:37 AM |
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miestro_jerry wrote:
Kicker,
I realize that for the individual stating the best would be difficult, how about Army wide? Then for the silly forces people? Think in groups, also think about the ease of repair and rebuild, which the 1911 holds that ease hands down.
And I like my Kimber Ultra Carry II, but would it be the best pistol in an armed insurrection? How about for a police force. My oldest carries a Glock 17 on duty and a "Lady Smith" off duty. I really am not a fan of the Glocks, even though I own one. Plus at one time I carried a S&W Model 39, which I thought it was the best in it's class, but time has changed my mind on that pistol. It is still a good pistol, but it's time has passed.
Tomorrow while working out in my fields, I will be packing my Sig. I rotate thru my pistols when I am on my property, it keeps me up on which one does what.
If you were the platoon or company officer for a basic or light infantry unit, what would be your choice for a practical side arm?
Jerry
You make my point for me. Thanks!
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The_Mountaineer
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Posted: 15 July 2008 01:37 PM |
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All good points fellas, don't think I can add much other than to say if given the choice I'd take a 3-star rated 45 ACP over a 4-star rated 9mm. Even so, I don't believe I'll ever give up my Beretta 92 FS. I really need to get a 1911 to keep it company though 
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Charley
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| Joined: | 9 September 2005 |
| Location: | San Antonio, Texas USA |
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Posted: 16 July 2008 03:19 AM |
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miestro_jerry wrote: Charley,
I like the Paras, weren't they the first double stacked 1911? My problem has always been weight. A heavy pistol in a tactical holster is not a problem, but as a kidney cover or under my arm, it won't work. As that I have not been in todays U.S. combat uniforms with vests and and all the assorted things that soldiers carry these day, I think a chest holster would not work either.
Plus I do like to carry all of the ammo I can.
Jerry
My P-12 is aluminum framed, weight isn't bad. A good, stiff gunbelt hellps. The P12 is Commander sized as well, slide is a bit lighter than full size.
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DesertMarine
HB Full Member
| Joined: | 12 November 2008 |
| Location: | New Mexico USA |
| Posts: | 20 |
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Posted: 19 November 2008 06:22 PM |
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Saw this forum today, joined HB this month. Thought I'd put my two cents in. I was a federal officer for 6 years and we used S&W 19s. After I left they went to Sig 220 in 45ACP. Most guys prefered it over the 19. As far as I know the agency is still using the Sig. That is about twenty years.
A nephew joined a police force and he had a choice and he chose the Sig 220. I shot it a bit and it was ok (I like 1911s). The main thing I did not like was that when he put in the holster, the slide would come back. He was using a new duty holster, don't remember whose, maybe Bianchi. Maybe after the holster broke in, no problem.
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Bigdog57
HB Full Member
| Joined: | 30 October 2008 |
| Location: | Tallahassee, Florida USA |
| Posts: | 27 |
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Posted: 19 November 2008 09:19 PM |
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My shooting buddy here at work has a SIG 220, bought a couple years back used - an ex-German police pistol IIRC. It's a very nice pistol indeed. A bit 'blocky' feeling to my hand, but I am an old ex-GI M1911A1 owner too. I love my GI .45, but the SIG shoots so much better! I can shoot easily half or less the size group my Colt will shoot.
I am not looking for another .45 pistol, but if I do, the SIG 220 will top the list! 
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Trigger_Puller
HB Full Member
| Joined: | 4 September 2008 |
| Location: | Florida USA |
| Posts: | 22 |
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Posted: 20 November 2008 01:49 PM |
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One of the first hand guns that I ever purchased was a Colt 1911 Series 80 which I immediately had the basics mods done to it (adjustable trigger, polish the ramp, enlarge ejection port, bevel mag well, changed the spring, and added Millet sights). I carried it for many years and probably averaged about 100 rounds a week through in practice. As a matter of fact, the Colt 1911 is the original reason I got into hand loading.
All was well until the U.S. military changed over to the Beretta 92. The grip was too large for my hands and I knew that the 9mm was not an effective combat round, which was later proven to me in real world experiences.
Fortunately, the unit that I was in sometimes had the option of carrying either the HK USP or the Sig P220. Although the HK is a fine weapon, I found that the trigger pull took some getting used to (way too long for my taste) so 9 times out of 10 I would choose the P220 as my side arm of choice for combat missions.
To this day, I still carry a Sig P220 when appropriate even though I also still have a 1911 available.
The only down side to the P220 initially is getting used to the transfer from double action on the first round to single action on the remaining shots. However, with practice it is easy enough to get used to.
Bottom line is, almost 100 years later the 45 ACP is still the most effective military handgun round available, in my humble opinion, and should be reintroduced as the standard U.S. miltary sidearm.Last edited on 20 November 2008 01:50 PM by Trigger_Puller
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Bigdog57
HB Full Member
| Joined: | 30 October 2008 |
| Location: | Tallahassee, Florida USA |
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Posted: 20 November 2008 03:05 PM |
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Recently, the skinny on the Net was that the US military was supposed to be letting a contract for a new D/A pistol in .45ACP. It would NOT be a 1911 clone - but a fully modern pistol. I would expect it to be either made by HK or SIG. Preferably actually manufactured here.
Anybody know if the contract actually materialised, or disappeared? I carried the M1911A1 in the Navy, and separated just before the change to the Beretta 9mm.
I'd like the US to go back to the .45ACP again too. .45 hardball makes as big a hole as an expanded 9mm!
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Trigger_Puller
HB Full Member
| Joined: | 4 September 2008 |
| Location: | Florida USA |
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Posted: 20 November 2008 06:59 PM |
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The Sig P220 Combat was designed to meet the specifications required by SOCOM and they (Sig) were ready to enter it for consideration just prior to the program be cancelled.
Some of the difference between the civilian version of the P220 and the P220 Combat include threaded barrel, higher sights to accommidate the diameter of the suppressor, and a duo-tone finish of matte black and OD green.
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Bigdog57
HB Full Member
| Joined: | 30 October 2008 |
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Posted: 20 November 2008 07:55 PM |
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| TP, thanks for the info!
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