| Posted: Thu Dec 18th, 2008 02:41 AM |
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Charley
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Sure is getting a lot of press, including the cover of the January American Rifleman. Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems to be a solution in search of a problem. Looking at the tables in the article, results with .45 Colt ammunition seem to range from poor to awful. Why would anyone want a handgun that groups as poorly as the average shown, 4 to 6 inches at 25 yards? Worst groups ran as large as 8 inches!.410 shotshells have always been considered pretty much unsuitable for defensive use in a long gun, now they are the hammer of Thor in a handgun?
I'll stick to my 1911s in .45 ACP, thank you. Even my BP loads in a replica 1875 Remington do much better than the results shown for the Taurus...that's with period sights, too!
Anyone actually own one and worked with it?
Last edited on Thu Dec 18th, 2008 02:41 AM by Charley
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| Posted: Fri Dec 19th, 2008 09:53 PM |
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SCSlim
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With regard to the topic, I think that most of them (judges, that is) are owned, bought and paid for - whether by individuals or political parties.
Oh, you meant a Taurus Judge ...
I read the article in Rifleman, and have seen it written up in other gun rags. It's an interesting piece - kind of the answer to a need that hasn't popped up yet.
However, keep the barrel at 4 or 5 inches, shorten the frame and cylinder so it will only accept .45 Colt, and they might be onto something. I'd actually buy one like that in stainless steel. Loaded with 300 grain Buffalo Bore bullets or the like, it would be a contender on my short list for what John Taffin calls a "Perfect Packin' Pistol".
Last edited on Fri Dec 19th, 2008 09:58 PM by SCSlim
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| Posted: Fri Dec 19th, 2008 11:42 PM |
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barebackpat
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I have a judge in the 3 inch barrel version. I bought mine for a couple of very specific purposes. I carry mine on my dirt bike most all spring and summer long. I load my own. brass shot shells full of number 4 buckshot and numbe 4 shot for a buffer. it produces a good tight pattern out to about 30 feet. Which is great for killing coyotes that have been trained by poor shots to stay out of rifle range and are call wise. I also use it on bulls that form an attitude and wont go where they are pointed. To accomplish this i use a remington number 6 shot 2 and a half inch game load. It works great for those purposes and also to dispatch rattle snakes when i dont have a shovel or other such measure handy. 
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| Posted: Sat Dec 20th, 2008 05:25 PM |
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miestro_jerry
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I think the Judge is a good idea. I am a farmer and known for carrying a 45 on hip while on the tractor or other machines. I find a 45 shot shell to be pretty worthless, so a small 410 would be handy. I have tried carrying a 410 Snake Charmer, it can be awkward to draw and fire while on the tractor, where the pistol would be much easier.
Home defense, 38 Special is all I need.
Just my thoughts on this pistol,
Jerry
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| Posted: Sun Dec 21st, 2008 02:50 AM |
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Charley
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Guess I'm prejudiced. My .45 ACP shotshell handloads kill small game fine at 10 yards, can't see a need for much beyond that. When I'm working on my place, I carry a shotload in the chamber, with my standard carry load in the mag. Cycles the action fine, and my bullets will group considerably tighter than the 6 inch average reported for the Judge.
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| Posted: Sun Dec 21st, 2008 08:42 AM |
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Timberghozt
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My boss owns one he keeps in his f-350..
He cant hit the broadside of a barn with it
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| Posted: Sun Dec 21st, 2008 02:15 PM |
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Dirtkicker
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I have to agree with Charley I guess. A five shot poor-performer that weighs the same as a nine-shot tack-driver? Doesn't make much sense to me. I think it's an advertising thing: it says "shotgun" and folks who don't know what a puny thing a .410 is (and can't hit a thing with a real handgun) think they get a free ride. If I need shot it's because I'm real close. A shot-round or two in my 1911 followed by the real thing is a much better deal IMO.
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| Posted: Sun Dec 21st, 2008 02:30 PM |
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barebackpat
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As a self defence gun it is definatley not my first choice. But has anyone ever tried to hit a running coyote while riding a motorcycle cross country with say a 22 or other pistol that fires one small projectile at a time? It is quite hard to do, especially in rough country. But the 410 judge is a great equalizer for this purpose. And it keeps the neighbors bulls in line when they take a motorrized vehicle. IT does have a very specific purpose for a few people. In my opinion. It works great for what i use it for.
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| Posted: Sun Dec 21st, 2008 03:36 PM |
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SCSlim
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Sounds like it fills the bill for you. I have to admit that I've cast more than one flirtatious glance at The Judge. Just yesterday, as a matter of fact, but the gunshop that owned it wanted $500 for it in blue. Given that there's still Christmas shopping to be done for the Mrs., that pricetag wasn't in line with the leftover budget. That, and if I were going to take the plunge, it would be for the stainless model.
I've killed rattlers with everything from .22 mag snakeshot to .380 FMJs and even a few big-bore .4x heavier hitters. They all succumbed. I don't take after coyotes on the lam, but I have anchored a few with rifle fire at a distance.
Taurus would have an instant sale here if they'd shorten the frame and cylinder down to .45 Colt length, offer barrels in 3-5 inches, and keep everything else the same. They could call it "The Prosecutor" to go along with their officer-of-the-court theme.
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| Posted: Sun Dec 21st, 2008 03:39 PM |
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miestro_jerry
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If you take the time to stop a tractor that you are working the fields with, your prey will be gone.
For me, maybe a shotened pump .410 would work best. Now it's finding one. If I could find those half loads 12 guage shells that may work in a minimal length 12 guage. I do have an old single shot one some where around.
Jerry
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| Posted: Sun Dec 21st, 2008 04:33 PM |
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barebackpat
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They are good little guns mine is the ultralight. And i have not see many in that style. But i sure love mine. I have anchored several moving dogs with a well placed rifle shot. But a rifle or long gun is really hard to carry on a motorcyle. That is why i carry my my judge and my 22 lon rifle taurus in a double shoulder rig. Combined with a couple of speed loaders for the 22 and a few shotgun shells in my pocet it works great for the long days out on the racnh riding the bike.
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| Posted: Sun Dec 21st, 2008 06:30 PM |
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SCSlim
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miestro_jerry wrote: If you take the time to stop a tractor that you are working the fields with, your prey will be gone.
Jerry, I have this picture in mind of you out on your tractor, rolling up on some critter and sending him to the promised land with shootin' iron in one hand and the wheel in the other. It's a cool picture! Kind of reminds me of Rooster Cogburn when he took on Ned Pepper and his gang across that big old meadow. Wish I could lay claim to that way of life but alas ... while I'm a country boy by upbringing, I'm stuck the suburbs at present and the hospital rooms in which I ply my trade are all walled in.
God bless every one of you that works the soil so the rest of us can eat, and the others of you that stand watch so we can eat in peace. Merry Christmas.
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| Posted: Sun Dec 21st, 2008 06:38 PM |
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miestro_jerry
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I have shoot my Marlin 1895 at a ground hog while driving my tractor. This also remind me of that scene in Rooster Cogburn. You have to see me when I pull ot my Sig 45 ACP and shoot two or three G'hogs while on the fly. That is the closest you will ever see to a drive by shooting in my area.
Merry Christmas
Jerry
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| Posted: Tue Jan 27th, 2009 08:33 PM |
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Razmiko
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I own a few guns but I bought the Taurus Judge with the 3" chamber that holds the 3" .410 shot shells. I have to tell you I love this gun. It is a joy to shoot the .45 LC. I load and reload my own ammo. Initially it was not going well doing so tho. I was using a powder that was too strong for the gun and it was giving me a hard kick on top of not hitting what I was aiming at but I eventually found the right load and I can now hit all in the bullseye circle at 15 yrds the spread is a little bigger at 25 yrds but I will hit what I aim at. I have several semi automatics but this was my first revolver and wow - nice. I keep it on my nightstand load with 3, 3" 00 buck (410) and 2, 250gr .45LC HP slugs. I have no doubt the buck shot will stop someone out to 10 - 15 yrds and then the 45 slugs will do the trick out to 25 yrds. I think the secret here is to load your own for it to be successful. I had to try a few loads to get to a one of my liking. When I go out to the range, I always take along the Judge and get in 50 - 100 rounds along with the other pistols and rifles I am primarily shooting. It is just that nice to shoot!
Any other love / hate stories?
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| Posted: Tue Jan 27th, 2009 09:10 PM |
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miestro_jerry
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I think I would find "deer slugs" in .410 and carry those in a judge if I lived in the city.
Jerry
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| Posted: Tue Jan 27th, 2009 10:07 PM |
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Razmiko
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Haven't tried slugs yet - hmmm, must put on the to do list!
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| Posted: Tue Jan 27th, 2009 10:36 PM |
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| Posted: Tue Jan 27th, 2009 11:17 PM |
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SCSlim
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Slugs in The Judge ... hmmm. A 1/4 oz. slug only weighs a bit more than 100 grains. Unless they're coming out at Mach 2 or so, I'd wonder about the advantange of a sub-.45 caliber slug at trans-sonic to barely supersonic velocity.
A good, stout .45 Colt load with a 200 grain hollow point bullet (something like the Barnes XPB) at around 1200 fps would seem a better choice than a 110 grain or so .41 caliber lead slug at 1100 fps (if you can do that well out of 3 - 4" barrel). Even a 250 grain hard cast flat nose at 900 - 1000 fps would seem a better choice.
That being said, I'm all about testing all manner of stuff and finding what works in my guns and suits my needs. Although I don't yet own a Judge, I'd be interested in seeing how it does with slugs. A chronograph would be a handy thing to have when testing them.
The worst that can happen is that you'll have fun shooting them!
Last edited on Tue Jan 27th, 2009 11:18 PM by SCSlim
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| Posted: Wed Jan 28th, 2009 02:14 AM |
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RobertMT
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Razmiko wrote: I. I keep it on my nightstand load with 3, 3" 00 buck (410) and 2, 250gr .45LC HP slugs.
I think you got 00 buck .358 confused with 000 buck .411. You can get 000 buck loads with three 000 buck in 2 1/2" or load your own 000 buck with four shot. They spread to under 4" in a 18" barrel at 10 yds, so should work quite nice in a 3" barrel at 7 yds or less.
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| Posted: Wed Jan 28th, 2009 02:35 AM |
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miestro_jerry
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I like the idea of the 000 buckshot in this pistol, if the cylinder is strong enough you could size some 454 Casulls brass in a set of 45 LC dies and load some pretty nasty bullets like the lyman 452651 325 gr CB, with a strong charge for the 45 LC, the load would probably light for a Casull round, but stiff for the 45 LC. Maybe a Hornady XTP 300 grain factory bullet. This opens up many possibilities, I think the test for doing this is not the pistol, but can you hand on to the gun for more than one shot.
Just a thought on a cold wintery night in BFE, they have closed down all of the schools for tomorrow and I have heard the plow go by many times already this evening.
Jerry
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