Ironworker
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Hey Klallen I live in one of our countries worst states for Gun Laws. But we have the best weather. What's winter in your city like? Unless its private land I need to drive 3 hours to hunt. How far do you have to drive to shoot? My state sucks. But in my line of work its the best. What do you do? Where is the best weather in Montana ?
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sako06
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I have a tc encore 15" pistol barrel in454casull,I had bullberry make me a 20" encore 454casull rifle barrel but read he was making sw460mag barrels sent my rifle barrel back in to be rechambered to sw460mag now I can fire 45colt,454casull & 460mag ammo in the rifle,I like to reload 45colt brass using the rcbs beginning 454casull load data for much better performance w/o getting hammered.Magtech makes some rather interesting 454 casull 260 gr JFP with some unknown local powder from the plant in Brazil where magtech gets their ammo,it has more recoil than Win Partition Gold 454 casull ammo and more than Hornaday sw460mag ammo.Each time I've gone to the SHOT show in vegas I've asked magtech staff if they had any info on the powder used in their ammo they've always said no.It would be nice if they'd make up some reloading data for all of their new nonlead handgun bullets.I have several bags of nonlead bullets in 454,45acp & 38/357 just don't want to damage a handgun.I'll give the office a call and see what restrictions are if any on loading their bullets. Last edited on Mon Aug 3rd, 2009 04:24 AM by sako06
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| Posted: Fri Aug 14th, 2009 09:16 PM |
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23rd Post |
KB88
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[QUOTE=Klallen]now the bear's close quarters and charging hard? hmmmmmmm. different scenario then. i'd probably opt out of my scoped revolvers and if staying with handguns, maybe go with my automag v in .50ae. as heavy a bullet as our .44's going 100 fps faster with 7 plus one in the chamber. don't think i'd intentionally go for the heard. heard lots of bad things with that intention. i guess if it were "oh crap" time, the automag would be as good as i've got getting a lot of lead down the barrel as quickly and accurately as i could.
Just a question:
If energy is a measure of good penetration, assuming all guns are running hard cast bullets, why wouldn't you opt for a .50 AE over the .500 magnum - which has double or more the energy of the .50 AE- in the event of a charge? Will a .50 AE provide enough penetration for bear?
Last edited on Fri Aug 14th, 2009 09:18 PM by KB88
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| Posted: Fri Aug 14th, 2009 11:33 PM |
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24th Post |
miestro_jerry
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I have the Casull in a Contender Super 14 barrel. I shoot a 320 grain cast bullet at about 1,400 fps. This is loaded with 25.5 grains of IMR 4227. I can get about the same performace with a 44 Mag.
The orginal factory ammo was a bit of a strange thing, it had a triple layer charge of powder, best not to try to duplicate this load at home.
Jerry
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| Posted: Sat Aug 15th, 2009 03:12 AM |
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25th Post |
klallen
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KB88 wrote:
"If energy is a measure of good penetration, assuming all guns are running hard cast bullets, why would you opt for a .50 AE over the .500 magnum - which has double or more the energy of the .50 AE- in the event of a charge?"
very basic, kb88. i gotta consider how my handguns are set up. all my revolvers, including the .500, are scoped weapons. makes them ideal hunting tools. less then ideal close range defense tools. even taking away the scope, though. the .50ae is much more user friendly then the .500. follow-up shots would be faster and more precise. valued benefits in a situation like we're talking about.
"Will a .50 AE provide enough penetration for bear?"
if you're asking if i believe there's enough umph to a .50ae to kill a bear ... my answer is, without question, yes.
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| Posted: Sat Aug 15th, 2009 03:47 AM |
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26th Post |
KB88
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Thanks. I'm going to take your experienced advice and start out with something more manageable than a .500 and work my way up. No sense in doing something the wrong way and developing bad habits.
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| Posted: Sat Aug 15th, 2009 05:26 AM |
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miestro_jerry
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I have done wild pigs with a 44 Mag loaded to the gills. The power is there, At a hundred yards, I still have a 1,000 pounds of energy. As far as bears, I am told that local hunter tree them and then unload 5 or 6 rounds from a 30-30 into the bear. The 30-30 has about 700 pounds of energy at 100 yards.
Both I would use at much closer range, probably 20 yards or closer.
So if you take a 454 Casulls, you will have enough energy. I compare the 44 Mag and the 454 Casuls, both at close range, the 44 Mag has 1300 pounds of energy and 454 has 1390 pounds of energy.
I also calculated the 30-30, it comes it at 900 pounds of energy.
The energy is calculated at the muzzle.
I use Lyman #2 cast bullets, in all three weapons, I would do real world tests with Ranch Dog molds, as that they were designed with the same application in mind.
I highly recommend gas checks, Hornady or Gator checks for these CBs.
These are rough figures and it is late on a Friday night.
Just another Friday night in Somerton.
Jerry
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| Posted: Sat Aug 15th, 2009 02:01 PM |
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28th Post |
klallen
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KB88 wrote: Thanks. I'm going to take your experienced advice and start out with something more manageable than a .500 and work my way up. No sense in doing something the wrong way and developing bad habits.
sounds like a reasonable plan of attack.
mj, why's your casull so severly downloaded? the .44 and .454 really aren't comparable cartridges, max performance wise, anyway. you downloading for comfort reasons?
you're numbers got me digging into mine :
.44 / 320 @ 1332 / 1261# energy
.454 / 395 @ 1400 / 1720# energy
.500 / 500 @ 1450 / 2335# energy (still under development - may break 1500 fps)
incidently, kb88, with the .50ae getting a similarly weighted bullet moving about 100 fps faster then my .44remmag, it'd rank squarely between my .44 and .454, if energy levels are your measuring stick.
interesting side note (to me) ... i knew what peformance i was getting but never put them side by side to see the near identical performance i'm getting with my .375supermag (revolver) and .45winmag (semiauto) loads, getting a 250 gr. cast moving along at just over 1400 fps. these tend to be a bit more off the wall as cartridges go, that performance lever would sure be a nice one for a new handgunner to cut their teeth on. and still be a very effective load for hunting application.
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| Posted: Wed Aug 19th, 2009 08:26 PM |
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29th Post |
KB88
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How is John Ross able to get 3,500 ft. lbs. of energy from a .500 magnum without catastrophic failure?
http://www.john-ross.net/store.php
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| Posted: Thu Aug 20th, 2009 12:09 AM |
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30th Post |
klallen
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from a quick read, he's doing several things. first he's increasing powder capacity. in conjunction with using the full length of the cylinder to determine a col and open up space, he's also using custom, cast bullets with very large meplat's. some over 90% of diameter. this pushes bullet weight forward, shortening the shank of the bullet in the case, opening up even more powder capacity. then he's uping working pressures. if you look at load data for the .500, top end stuff is right around that 50K - 51K psi. he works with 60K psi. and he is of the thinking this is safe in the revolvers he's making. thought i read somewhere he uses stronger metal for his cylinders. again, i just skimmed so not sure on that one. he's also using a very tight cylinder gap in efforts to retain all of the working pressures that can be churned up by the things he's doing.
does this get to his 400 gr. bullet going 2K fps? and doing so safely? who knows. i would imagine he wouldn't write it unless he achieved it.
i do know with the .500, it's one of those cartridges that offers top end performance at a level much higher then most care to submit themselves to. by that i mean, a handloader will stop, for comfort sake, well before the cartridge or revolver has been tested.
so while i won't go as far as to say 3500+ # of energy is reasonable, i will say, if you do the things he's doing in efforts to maximize the cartridges performance ... the cartridge certainly has room to be pushed.
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| Posted: Thu Aug 20th, 2009 05:16 AM |
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31st Post |
KB88
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One thing's for sure - if he's only getting that number by putting the gun in a vice and pulling the trigger with fishing line, he's ripe for a major lawsuit. I can't imagine a person opening oneself up to such a liability, so there must be something to it. Either way, at that point one might as well buy a long gun.
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| Posted: Thu Aug 20th, 2009 05:49 AM |
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32nd Post |
woodsman777
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just curious ,what was your max load ? ,
I don't have it right in front of me ,
but if memory servse me 36 gr of h110/w296 was max for a 240 gr with a heavy jacket ?
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| Posted: Thu Aug 20th, 2009 01:29 PM |
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33rd Post |
klallen
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morning 777. i've never loaded anything that light in my casull. 300's are what i started with and as light as i've gone.
from the 2008 hodgdon guide though, 36 grs. is what they list as a starter load for a jacketed 240 bullet using h110 or 296. topping out at just over 38 grs. for a max load.
you going to do some work with that light a bullet?
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woodsman777
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K
I worked with the 240's for a while thinking about using it for elk and deer,
but the recoil snap was wicked,
the 300's had more push and less snap so it was better ,
(using 30.5 - 31.5 h110)
still have not got around to trying the 395's but I believe it will be a still smoother recoil
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woodsman777
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Found this article while surfing a few blogs.
Stuff like this makes me think the heavier the bullet the better
and as our 26th president is often quoted as saying
"USE ENOUGH GUN"
Man kills charging bear with .454 Casull
Greg Brush, an Alaskan fishing guide, was ambushed with no warning by a charging bear. All he had time to do was pull out his .454 Casull and fire as fast as possible, while falling backwards after tripping on a branch. The Anchorage Daily News reports:
He drew a Ruger .454 Casull revolver. There was no time to aim, barely time to squeeze the trigger. He’s not sure whether he got off two shots or three, but one proved fatal.
“Total luck shot,” he said.
“It doesn’t get any closer. He slid by me on his chin when I shot him,” Brush said. “I was backpedaling as fast as I could. I wasn’t even aiming. I tripped over my own feet as I pulled the trigger.”
He estimated that the animal weighed 900-plus pounds, and was 15 to 20 years old. It had grass packed in its molars and little fat on its bones.
“It was starving to death and saw an opportunity,” Brush said.
I sometimes get asked what should be carried in bear country. I always say the same thing: “I know nothing about bears but if I was in bear country I would want a .44 Magnum by my side”. I despair when people say they would rather carry their 9mm or .40 S&W Glock because they can get off more shots! This story perfectly illustrates that you may only get off one or two shots at a charging 900 pound beast! A 9mm round is not going to do much good.
Greg was most likely carrying a Ruger Super Redhawk. The Low-Glare Stainless model has a 7.5″ barrel is chambered in .454 Casull .
Big thank you to Don for emailing me the link.
UPDATE: Commenters point out that he was using the Super Redhawk Alaskan. This snub nosed .454 Casull has a 2.5″ barrel . Thanks guys for the correction.
Tom Gresham has an interview with Greg on his Gun Talk show
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klallen
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woodsman777 wrote: still have not got around to trying the 395's but I believe it will be a still smoother recoil
you are right. comparing a 300 at 1600+ fps and the 395's at 1400+ fps in a srh casull, the heavies are definitely more comfortable to shoot. and by a pretty good margin.
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woodsman777
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it does make me wonder after the 395's and 405's how heavy and with what kind of velocity can you go with the cylinder on a SRH ?
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klallen
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i think if you get 395's in the 1400 - 1450 fps range, you're rolling pretty darn good with the cartridge.
side note, was talking with a fella years back who has hunted the world with his .454 about bullets and he claimed the 370's at around 1500 were about as good as it gets for churning up energy in the cartridge on revolver platform.
i went with the 395's cause i wanted to try the heavyweights and that's the heaviest cast performance offered and when i did find that there were 405 out there, i'd already had the load i really liked developed and saw no real value in jumping bullet weight by a mere 10grs for experiment sake.
if i remember, crunching numbers back then, the 370's did have a higher energy level reached with the velocities they could be pushed. comparison with them and the 395's were something like 1850# and 1750# of energy, respectively. either way you choose, it's still one serious hunting tool, if that's what you choose to do with it.
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KB88
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Are there circumstances where a lower energy, but heavier bullet will penetrate better than a higher energy, lightweight bullet?
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miestro_jerry
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I remember the 454 Casull ammo that was out, maybe it still is, it was a 3 layer powder load and was very hot, but "did not blow up" the pistol.
I think I would use a 300 grain bullet with 27.5 grains of 296 powder this should be pushing 1,500 fps.
Jerry
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