| Posted: Wed Nov 11th, 2009 11:00 AM |
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flotsem
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I'm just starting out. And before I dive in on a full load. I want to down size the charge of some 8mm Mauser. My father has a Gew88 small ring, two lug and poor gas relief. It's been recommended that if I drop the charge down 25% that it will be safe to fire surplus ammo out of this rifle.
So to my question: Bullet Puller. Hammer style or Press type?
I've read that the hammer type is easier on the round (less damage). But putting a live round in a hammer device and striking it, seem to go against every safety issue that has kept me alive this long.
What you say?
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| Posted: Wed Nov 11th, 2009 11:09 AM |
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2nd Post |
Rockydog
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I agree. Using a press type puller is so much simpler. No spilled powder. Nothing to take apart after each bullet pulled etc. BTW When pulling surplus ammo it really helps to put it in a seating die and bump it a little farther in to "break the set" of the bullet. RD
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| Posted: Wed Nov 11th, 2009 11:23 AM |
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flotsem
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Thanks RD
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| Posted: Wed Nov 11th, 2009 11:26 AM |
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fryboy
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+ 1 on the breaking the bullet loose !!
i have both types...and fortunately i rarely have to use them mostly i grab the hammer type but if i had alot to do i'm sure i'd use the press mounted one
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| Posted: Wed Nov 11th, 2009 01:44 PM |
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Don Fischer
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I always use the hammer type. The press puller ruins the bullet's.
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| Posted: Wed Nov 11th, 2009 04:44 PM |
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Bigdog57
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Gewehr 88 Commission Rifles had the older .318 bore, versus the WWI and later .323 bore. You may want to rethink running the surplus ammo through the old warhorse...... 
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| Posted: Wed Nov 11th, 2009 05:02 PM |
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Ranch 13
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The hammer pullers work fine, there's no way anything will contact the primer unless somebody does something really stupid with it.......
Anyway I don't think pulling the bullets and cutting the powder charge inside those rounds is a very good idea, you could end up with a terrible mess and a blown reciever.
Best to stick with either ammo made for that rifle as is, or start from scratch using published tested data building new ammo for it.
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| Posted: Wed Nov 11th, 2009 05:15 PM |
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flotsem
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Big Dog 57
This is a Turkish model. It has a S stamp/conversion to .323. My local gunsmith slugged the barrel.
He has been shooting commercial ammo out of her, at $28 a box. That is why I wanted to make him up a few hundred round.
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| Posted: Wed Nov 11th, 2009 05:26 PM |
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Ranch 13
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Why not get some of the Turkish milsurp stuff and shoot it? There's usually plenty of that stuff relatively cheap at places like Cheaper Than Dirt , and Sportsmans Guide.
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| Posted: Wed Nov 11th, 2009 08:36 PM |
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StretchNM
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I use the hammer-type pullers, only because I don;t have a press mounted puller. In a pinch, I've used the press with pliars and a small towel to grip the bullet. It still mars the bullet to varying degree, however careful I've been.
There is no danger in using these. If you get one, you'll see that clearly. Make sure you put some foam or a foam earplug down in the bottom of the puller so as not to harm the bullet tip when it breaks free.
I have a short (24") chunk of 4x4 that I stand on-end on the shop floor. 3 or 4 good raps on the end will break the bullet free but, as stated before, you have to contend with the powder down in the bottom of the puller.
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| Posted: Wed Nov 11th, 2009 09:12 PM |
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OldStuffer
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I have both, for pulling rifle bullets, I'd put the collet puller in my press and make it easy, and I have never messed up a jacketeed bullet5 with the collet.
RCBS unit, collets are not included, buy puller,a dn whatever size collet needed, they aren't terribly expensive.
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| Posted: Wed Nov 11th, 2009 09:33 PM |
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miestro_jerry
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I have both, the press styled ones can be made to pull bullets without damage.
In the old Commission Mausers, I would reduce the load, but also start shooting cast bullets that would help also.
Jerry
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| Posted: Wed Nov 11th, 2009 11:47 PM |
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flotsem
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Ranch 13
I have a butt load of surplus. The reason I want to drop the charge is, the K98's have a port to devert the gas in the event of a split case. The GEW88 do not. I have shot many,many rounds of every different surplus 8mm I own and have yet had a case split. I know people that shoot surplus out of there 88's and have never had any problems. It's just that if I am giving the old man ammo to shoot the last thing I want to happen is a case split and him getting a face full of hot gas. And since he only shoots out to 50yrds with iron sights (old eyes). The light charge should not come into factor.
Thanks for the input gents. How its looking, get the press puller for pulling many loads and pick up the hammer puller if i need one or two yanked. Like I said I'm just getting into reloading and putting a live round in a hammer device had me
And yes cast bullets is also a great option.
Thanks once again
Last edited on Wed Nov 11th, 2009 11:56 PM by flotsem
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| Posted: Wed Nov 11th, 2009 11:53 PM |
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Ranch 13
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It depends on what powder they loaded that cartridge with. If it's loaded with a slow powder like 4064,4350,4831, instead of having a "split" case you could end up with a split reciever.
If you're going to reload those cartridges, best to use a known quantity of a known powder.
And using a cast bullet might be a better idea, than trying to reuse those fmj's.
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| Posted: Wed Nov 11th, 2009 11:56 PM |
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frankmako
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i got both, but i like the hammer model the best. it is faster.
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| Posted: Thu Nov 12th, 2009 12:00 AM |
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flotsem
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Ranch 13
If I'm getting it right. A lesser charge of the same powder (if its slow burning) will increase pressure?
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| Posted: Thu Nov 12th, 2009 12:08 AM |
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Ranch 13
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Yes, that's right.Now get yourself a good handloading manual and read it, before you get yourself or worse yet somebody else hurt.
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| Posted: Thu Nov 12th, 2009 12:14 AM |
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flotsem
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10-4 on that.
Like said i'm just getting started and still waiting on equipment and manual are in the order.
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| Posted: Thu Nov 12th, 2009 01:08 AM |
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OldStuffer
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flotsem wrote: Ranch 13
If I'm getting it right. A lesser charge of the same powder (if its slow burning) will increase pressure?
What often happens is if insuficient powder exists and is burning, pressure builds fairly normally, the bullet can start moving, lowering pressure. Gunpowder burning characteristics are VERY dependant on pressure on the burning propellant. It is possible with reduced loads of some powders, for the powder burn rate to drop, from the lowered pressure, which lowers pressure MORE, which allows the bullet to stop in the barrel, which lodges in the barrel (now an obstruction, not a projectile).
The blocked barrel now increases back-pressure, which increases burn rate of the powder, which can no longer be reduced by a bullet moving to expand the area. Very high pressure develops and something may blow.
It doesn't make sense, untill you realize exactly how it happens.
Most powders seem to be safe to reduce loads a good bit for testing and load development in your gun. SOME, are, even according to published data, NOT to be reduced by very much at all, or become unsafe, every bit as unsafe as an overcharge.
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| Posted: Thu Nov 12th, 2009 01:19 AM |
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fryboy
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cast bullets would sure be easier on the old rifles bore ! alot of surplus is berdan primed( a pita to deprime and berdan primers are almost as scarce as hen's teeth ) american loaded 8mm isnt quite loaded to european standards ( alot of foreign ammo that is made here is like that -in deference to old guns such as this and more )when u look down into a empty case if u see 1 hole in the middle that is boxer primed, ( and easy enough to deprime and reprime) if u see two ( or more ) lil holes offset from the center that is berdan primed,our american sizing dies wont deprime that in fact it's possible to break the decapping pin by trying ,i save berdan primed brass ...not to reload but to trade to the scrap yard for things like tin or lead ( eh or cash lolz)ranch is correct , some powder isnt safe at all to reduce ,if i was going to make pops some safe loads i'd have to have the dies to reseat the bullet anyways and instead of surplus rounds i'd check any empties u may have to see if they are reloadable,if loading light cast rounds quite often the brass last for quite a few firings ( sure beats the one pop surplus stuff)and even with jacketed bullets loaded sensibly it last for several rounds ( a worthwhile investment me thinks ! )
edit for add....
what ranch was referring to was the process of detonation IMO certain slow powders for the range they are in have been known to blow firearms apart by abnormal pressure spikes , they believe that it is caused in part by the erratic ignition of the less than full case space ,i've seen it happen ( but not to me ,quick way to ruin a day and a fine firearm ) i've even seen several other examples of it ,some powders such as ww 296 h110 and about anything slower than 4350 are cautioned about not to reduce very much at all , this is why we have recipes that have been repeatedly tested to be safe ( or else they wouldnt be published ) some powders work great with reduced capacity charges but there are warnings for those that arent safe to do so IMo they are put there for good reason sadly surplus powder is a unknown .....
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