| Posted: Sat Jun 10th, 2006 04:13 AM |
|
1st Post |
monkeyman
HB Pro Staff
| Joined: | Tue Apr 18th, 2006 |
| Location: | West Central, Missouri USA |
| Posts: | 85 |
| Photo: | | | Are you a handloader?: | | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | | | My favorite chambering is:: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
I got the rest of my loading stuff yesterday including a basic chart of loading data so loaded up 200 rounds of .38 special last night. I loaded them all with 135 grain bullets (useing carbide dies so no lube) with Clays extra clean shotgun and pistol powder. The first 100 had about 3 grains (useing dipper so figure may be off by .1-.05 grains +/-) and fired 6 and found out they were real light, then about 3.2 grains in the second hundred. The load data said to start at 3 grains with a red line at 3.7 grains. I also was messing with the seating/crimping a bit as I went trying to get it just right. I was useing CCI small pistol primers. All my components (other than the brass) was new as of last week and has been in the house in a sealed ammo can with the seal unbroken on the powder untill the day before yesterday.
I went out to shoot some and try them out. From the first 100 I had loaded about 1/3 of all of them would pop and the bullet would not even make it all the way out the barrel and I would have to push it back out. I had carefuly checked each shell at least 3 times when loading to be sure there were no noticably light charges or double charges or anything (was my first batch by myself Im sure you all remember how paranoid you are at that stage lol). I started shakeing each shell to be sure the powder was there before putting it in the gun, checking the primers to be sure they were flush and so on. Some of the crimps were not quite right or else they didnt size quite right and were snug fits but nothing I found showed any rhyme or reason or pattern to match the ones that didnt fire properly. Out of the second 100 I only had a total of 5 that did the same thing. Of the ones that didnt make it out of the barrel some were only an inch or so into the 4 inch barrel others were half way along and some were sticking out the muzzel but didnt quite make it out.
So dose anyone know what may have caused this? I asked my dad and he figured it had to have been bad powder but wanted to ask you all to before I started getting upset at the shop where I bought the powder or the manufacturer, especialy since like I say it was new and sealed and stored in a sealed container in the house since it left the store.
Thanks for any thoughts.
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 10th, 2006 12:40 PM |
|
2nd Post |
saddlesore
HB certified Master Handloading and Ballistics advisor
| Joined: | Sun Feb 6th, 2005 |
| Location: | Colorado Springs, Colorado USA |
| Posts: | 637 |
| Photo: | | | Are you a handloader?: | | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | | | My favorite chambering is:: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
It can only be bad powder or bad primers. If the sizing die is the correct size, they will go bang even it you don't crimp them.
You are flirting with trouble if you are depending ona dipper for pistol powders in the 3 gr range..
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 10th, 2006 01:43 PM |
|
3rd Post |
Timberghozt
Board Founder
| Joined: | Fri Feb 11th, 2005 |
| Location: | Texas USA |
| Posts: | 6792 |
| Photo: | [Download] | | Are you a handloader?: | Yes | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | I load everything! | | My favorite chambering is:: | 300 Winchester Magnum ... |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
Powder...99.9 percent sure is the culprit.The primer is definately going off if it is pushing the bullet into the barrel.Take that crap back and tell em you want a pound of good powder..Or let me know the store name and they`ll wish they had..
____________________
"He who fights with monsters might take care, lest he thereby become a monster; For if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - F.Nietzche
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 10th, 2006 02:49 PM |
|
4th Post |
billt
Guest
| Joined: | |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | |
| Photo: | | | Are you a handloader?: | | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | | | My favorite chambering is:: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
That is certainly odd. I've shot over 50 pounds of Clays in trap loads over the years without a problem, and currently have ay least 32 pounds on hand. However, that being said I've never loaded anything but shotshells with it. For sure take it back. Clays has a good reputation. Moisture perhaps from incorrect storage? Bill T.
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 10th, 2006 03:17 PM |
|
5th Post |
Charley
Board Founder
| Joined: | Fri Sep 9th, 2005 |
| Location: | San Antonio, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 3776 |
| Photo: | | | Are you a handloader?: | Yes | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | I load everything! | | My favorite chambering is:: | all of them |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
Elevate the muzzle before shooting. It is possible, with your very light loads, that the powder is too far away from the primer for complete ignition. Try another powder with a higher loading density, or bump up your load.
____________________
TANSTAAFL
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 10th, 2006 03:27 PM |
|
6th Post |
Gunrunner
Super Moderator
| Joined: | Thu Feb 3rd, 2005 |
| Location: | Burkina Faso |
| Posts: | 1470 |
| Photo: | [Download] | | Are you a handloader?: | Yes | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | I shoot factory ammo | | My favorite chambering is:: | Whatever I'm shooting that day |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
Monkeyman, here's my thoughts:
When you're doing load development don't make 100 rounds of an unknown charge. Load up 6 to 10 rounds each of various powder charges. Once you find the best load then start cranking them out by the hundreds.
As Saddlesore said, using those dippers to measure such small charges can be hazardous to your health. The charge might look ok to your eyes, but looks can be deceiving.
If at all possible borrow a scale (one in grains) and load up a few rounds with exact powder charges...a few with 3.2gs, then 3.3, 3.4 and 3.5. Just 6 of each should be enough. If those all go pop like your first experience then I'd definitely say it's a bad can of powder.
____________________
"Get off your computer and go load some ammo"
Welcome to California. Press 2 for English.
|
| Posted: Sun Jun 11th, 2006 03:45 AM |
|
7th Post |
monkeyman
HB Pro Staff
| Joined: | Tue Apr 18th, 2006 |
| Location: | West Central, Missouri USA |
| Posts: | 85 |
| Photo: | | | Are you a handloader?: | | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | | | My favorite chambering is:: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
Yeah I know there is a bit of variance with the dippers but tossed about 50 or so charges on the scale and they were all real close (with in .1 grain or so). I just wanted to be sure before I went back to the store with it that it couldnt be something I had done.
|
| Posted: Wed Jun 14th, 2006 03:18 AM |
|
8th Post |
Poacher
Board Founder
| Joined: | Sun Aug 14th, 2005 |
| Location: | Kansas USA |
| Posts: | 945 |
| Photo: | | | Are you a handloader?: | Yes | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | I load everything! | | My favorite chambering is:: | everything. |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
Monkeyman
How did the rest of the loading go? Did you get another batch of powder? Keep us updated.
Take care Be safe Poacher.
____________________
I carry my gun because that's the safest place for it.
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 22nd, 2006 12:46 AM |
|
9th Post |
Black Elk
HB Pro Staff
| Joined: | Thu May 11th, 2006 |
| Location: | Oregon USA |
| Posts: | 30 |
| Photo: | | | Are you a handloader?: | | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | | | My favorite chambering is:: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
I've been waiting on the results of this one but I tend to agree with what
Charley wrote:
Elevate the muzzle before shooting. It is possible, with your very light loads, that the powder is too far away from the primer for complete ignition. Try another powder with a higher loading density, or bump up your load.
If your powder is at the bullet end of the case when you touch it off then the primer has to 'throw' it's energy out to the powder causing poor ignition - also if the gun were sealed better like a semi auto you could be in danger of an extream catistofic falure when the pressure continued to build.
if you want to load such light rounds then try that new cowboy stuff that looks like cheerios - I think is the Trail Boss stuff saddlesore mentioned in your other post, it is made for this reason ( to fill cases with light loadings ) so you don't have loose powder sloping around.
be very careful when using light loads - they can be more dangerous then overpowered ones.
oh also I'm sure he did not mean for you to leave the muzzle in the air when fireing. only tilt it up and then carefully bring it down to lineup ; no down hill stuff with these loads: they should be fine to shoot like this so you can have some fun and not have too pull them.
Last edited on Thu Jun 22nd, 2006 12:52 AM by Black Elk
____________________
http://www.rmef.org/sounds/bugle2.wma
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 22nd, 2006 08:22 PM |
|
10th Post |
Future US Soldier
HB Pro Staff
| Joined: | Thu Jun 8th, 2006 |
| Location: | Oregon USA |
| Posts: | 115 |
| Photo: | | | Are you a handloader?: | | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | | | My favorite chambering is:: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
good advice, thanks. Last edited on Thu Jun 22nd, 2006 08:22 PM by Future US Soldier
____________________
Howdy Partner!!!
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 23rd, 2006 12:07 AM |
|
11th Post |
monkeyman
HB Pro Staff
| Joined: | Tue Apr 18th, 2006 |
| Location: | West Central, Missouri USA |
| Posts: | 85 |
| Photo: | | | Are you a handloader?: | | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | | | My favorite chambering is:: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
Thanks guys, I have been haveing problems with my ISP and phone co. so havent been able to get online for almost 2 weeks. I am hopefuly going to go pick up some HP38 tomorrow and try it and keep this powder for when I get set up for loading shotgun shells since it is also rated for this but the HP 38 loads use about twice the amount of powder so figure this should work better.
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 23rd, 2006 04:19 AM |
|
12th Post |
Future US Soldier
HB Pro Staff
| Joined: | Thu Jun 8th, 2006 |
| Location: | Oregon USA |
| Posts: | 115 |
| Photo: | | | Are you a handloader?: | | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | | | My favorite chambering is:: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
well at least your back and running again right.
____________________
Howdy Partner!!!
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 23rd, 2006 04:22 AM |
|
13th Post |
monkeyman
HB Pro Staff
| Joined: | Tue Apr 18th, 2006 |
| Location: | West Central, Missouri USA |
| Posts: | 85 |
| Photo: | | | Are you a handloader?: | | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | | | My favorite chambering is:: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
Well, back at least. We're supposed to get a disc that goes with the new ISP to speed it up in the next week or so and can hopefuly get the bugs worked out so can be running instead of crawling. lol
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 23rd, 2006 04:24 AM |
|
14th Post |
Future US Soldier
HB Pro Staff
| Joined: | Thu Jun 8th, 2006 |
| Location: | Oregon USA |
| Posts: | 115 |
| Photo: | | | Are you a handloader?: | | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | | | My favorite chambering is:: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
Well yeah I know what you mean well I hope it all goes well for ya'll.
____________________
Howdy Partner!!!
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 29th, 2006 06:30 PM |
|
15th Post |
Gunrunner
Super Moderator
| Joined: | Thu Feb 3rd, 2005 |
| Location: | Burkina Faso |
| Posts: | 1470 |
| Photo: | [Download] | | Are you a handloader?: | Yes | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | I shoot factory ammo | | My favorite chambering is:: | Whatever I'm shooting that day |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
Monkeyman, I've used HP38 in my 44Spl loads and have had good results. Never tried it in the 38Spl but I figure it should work just fine. Let us know how you're loads turn out.
____________________
"Get off your computer and go load some ammo"
Welcome to California. Press 2 for English.
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 29th, 2006 08:07 PM |
|
16th Post |
saddlesore
HB certified Master Handloading and Ballistics advisor
| Joined: | Sun Feb 6th, 2005 |
| Location: | Colorado Springs, Colorado USA |
| Posts: | 637 |
| Photo: | | | Are you a handloader?: | | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | | | My favorite chambering is:: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
If there was poor/erratic ignition of powder from case up/case down, the bullets would still get out the barrel. You would incur erratic ignition, not " no ignition" which it seems he is getting. I load 4.4 gr of W231 in a.357 case. 158 gr RNFP lead bullet and have no problems. Very accurate load. To date I have shot in exces of 20K rounds of that load
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 30th, 2006 03:04 AM |
|
17th Post |
monkeyman
HB Pro Staff
| Joined: | Tue Apr 18th, 2006 |
| Location: | West Central, Missouri USA |
| Posts: | 85 |
| Photo: | | | Are you a handloader?: | | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | | | My favorite chambering is:: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
The local shop didnt have any HP38 so ended up getting a pound of Universal and loaded 3.7 grains behind the 148 wad cutters. So far I have shot 100 rounds of this load with no trouble at all and loaded up another 450 after shot those so will probably shoot another 100 or so this weekend but so far this load seems like a winner. Im not sure if the other powder was bad or if it was just to light of a load to fill enouph space especialy since it was with a smaller bullet that wasnt seated as deep so there was more space for it to roll around in. I kind of suspect it may have been the later since the first 100 I shot of those loads (with clays) were about 1/10 grain or so lighter and had about 6x the failures to ignight (34 or so) and the second 100 haveing 1/10 grain or so more powder (putting it at red line) only had 5 or 6 failures. I plan to get into shotgun loads when I can so may try it on some of them when I get to that but for now am likeing the Universal.
|
|
