Granpa
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I started a couple of weeks ago with a dillon 550b, and am learning just how much there is to learn even to just make practice ammo.
I have goen through one box of 1000 and started on another. The guys at the FOP range in B'ham are very helpful. Most of them have been reloading for years.
Thank you for the information shared here, it is very helpful.
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| Posted: Sun Mar 29th, 2009 05:31 AM |
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22nd Post |
HALF COCKED
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caz223 wrote: It's not really a magic number or time served, but a desire to get in there and fight.
It's why some people are pistoleros and others are riflemen.
It also depends on your shooting skill, attention to detail, IQ, and many other unquantifiable factors.
That's like asking how many bullets do you have to shoot to be a competant marksman.
Exactly how many cigarettes can you smoke before you die?
If you start reloading on a progressive, didn't know how to ask for help, or that you needed any, you can crank out an amazing number of crap rounds before you have any idea what you're doing....
And if you are new to shooting, and are barely keeping your shots on a paper plate at 21 feet, then you may never know your reloaded ammo is substandard until your shooting improves.
And if you stop learning stuff, it's a sure sign that a) you're not paying attention, b) you stopped reloading, or c) you shouldn't be reloading.
One very good sign is that you're HERE. A public forum, to learn from others, and share what you've learned. It really is an amazing resource, when I started reloading those resources were not yet available. I learned more the first year at TFL forums than all the years before. I pick up something from every forum I go to (Good or bad.) but it's info, and it helps you make decisions. Informed ones. I hope to be a reloading guru someday, until then I'm content to learn from others, and share what works for me.
My 1/5 peso.
I feel there is more wisdom in that than ANY of us knows!!! Amen, brother!!
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| Posted: Sun Mar 29th, 2009 07:45 PM |
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23rd Post |
fryboy
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i've always been told that experience is what u get when u got what u didnt want ....and that u get it few minutes after u needed it ....i hope no one gets that kind of experience here ! reloading is indeed a never ending learning thing ,perhaps i err on the side of safety but working up a new load for a new pipe it seems that i over analyze it six ways to sunday before i ever start with the powder,often the info is overwhelming and takes time to sort out ,i am a student of life and i am still living ,when i graduate it will be too late so i'm not in a hurry ,good habits are best instilled early for in my mind this isnt a game and the results could be disastrous,that isnt to say that reloading cant be fun or rewarding ( or else most of us would reload no more )i cant stress your own safety enough nor your life and limbs i also cant stress or responsibility enough either, there are very few folks i will shoot their reloads ...is it a matter of trust ? i'm sure for i only know my own practices ,the last time i shot another's reloads it didnt sound right nor feel right upon beating the bolt open the primer fell out -i advised him to shoot that load no more ( wish he'd of listened-he tried another box-of the same reload )blew the bolt the primer went thru the vent hole and thru his thumb to the bone the primer pocket was flush with it's bottom on the side it went thru the vent hole ( that vent hole is alot smaller than the primer too btw plus the brass from the case head -wow )..and to think it could of been me or worse someone else ..did he learn thru experience ? i can only hope so i sure did ! when loading if something doesnt feel right i stop and check everything out nor do i continue loading if interrupted i basiclly start over ( and yes i turn off my fone when loading ) and i will never consider myself a handloader master but a novice no matter how much experience i get ( btw on a guesstimate 35000+ rounds and still loading not counting shotgun shells)ya'll be safe some experience we never want to have
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| Posted: Mon Mar 30th, 2009 12:08 AM |
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24th Post |
Dirtkicker
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One of the things I like about reloading is that after almost 55 years of doing it, I've only scratched the surface of what there is to learn. An endless mystery! And every mile of the journey exciting and rewarding.
I don't think it has anything to do with how many rounds you've loaded, because you are always running into something new and challenging. A man loading ten rounds of half-minute match-grade .308 may learn lots more than a fellow loading 5000 rounds of .38 Special on his progressive.
I agree with what someone already very wisely said: Once you think you "know it all," you're riding for a fall.
If we could only introduce the antis to the infinite joys of handloading there would be an end to the gun grabs. (How's that for pie-in-the-sky?)
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| Posted: Mon Mar 30th, 2009 03:50 AM |
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25th Post |
brasspass
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I've kept a log and since 1987 I've loaded a bit over 20,000 rounds. I find that if I take a few years off and haven't reloaded, I have to re-learn some of the tricks and techniques I knew second nature when I was reloading regularly. I reload probably 15-20 different types of ammo and always learn something new it seems each time I sit at my bench. Just recently, I turned down some 38 special brass and used a combiniation of my .38 special and 9mm dies to load a box of 38 s&w's (AKA 38 colt)for an old Baby Russian Smith and Wesson pocket pistol (circa 1880's). And, I loaded those using a 9mm lead bullet and fff black powder. That's not something you load everyday. So, I'm always learning something new.
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| Posted: Mon Mar 30th, 2009 10:11 PM |
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26th Post |
azcruiser
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I did R&D for one of the reloading manufacture's and tested some machings have loaded way more than 100,000 rounds heck think i loaded 25.000 12ga when testing that machine. Think that after about 500 rds you should have it down pretty well as long as your not changeing calibers going from pistol to rifle to shotgun.You get a beet insert handle down-handle up push to prime-handle down insert another-handle downhandle up push prime check powder-handle down insert shell place bullet on case handle down handle up push to prime and repeat from the on.Could do 26 =12ga per minuteat trade shows
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Oldeyes
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Great question. I'm now north of 1000 rounds with most being 45acp and a few being 270 Win. The basics I got pretty quick but I still learn and my learning at least has moved from the pure technical to the process methodology of the task. When I got pistol basics figured out I moved to rifle which I have found to be a while new book. I'm a real rookie on rifle and have a long way to go.
I feel safer if I'm always questioning what I'm doing, not allowing myself to get too comfortable.
BTW I think I saw you had mentioned W231. Have you used a 45 acp powder thats cleaner thean the W231. I find it a really dirty powder.
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Dragon88
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W231 is acceptably clean for me, mostly because I was stuck using Bullseye for a while due to a quantity of 185gr bullets I had. Try Clays.
I've been reloading for a year now and I learn new things every week and every session at the range. It seems to be one of those skills which is easy to learn but that you could spend a lifetime trying to master.
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Don Fischer
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I nstarted loading in 1967. Nobody told me I had to could my MTY primer box's. Over 100k I'd bet.
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Busted
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"How many rounds does it take before you really know what you are doing?"
Depends a whole lot on how fast (or maybe slow?) we learn! After some 49 years, and quite a bit of ammo, I'm still learning. I hope.  Well, maybe not. But, I try!
Anyway, a lot of the answer depends on just what we load for, what we expect from our ammo and out willingness to experiment to learn new things.
I know several guys who have loaded tens of thousands of 9mm rounds and know no more now than they knew after a few hundred. All that "experience" was focused on doing the same thing time after time on a progressive pumping out the same pistol ammo in mass qualities. And that ignores the fellows who load for shotgun. All of them are REALLY experienced in volume but not much else! Not a slam, just a fact, they do know all they wish or need to know for their purposes.
On the other hand, I know a couple of young guys who have only loaded maybe 3-4 thousand rounds, all systematiclly for several different rifles for varmint-hunting-target and some magnum handgun stuff too. They have learned a LOT but only because they've had to to get where they want to go!
And my BR friends are constantly experimenting for better loads and more precise methods.
Soooo... your question is good but the answer is, "Who can say?"
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| Posted: Sat Oct 10th, 2009 12:09 AM |
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31st Post |
Rapier
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A jorney of 1,000 miles begins with but a single step.
My Jorney has been a long and fun trip. Been reloading for near 50 years. When I was shooting 3 gun, IPSC, Plates, Pins and few silhouettes while I was resting, I ordered componets in 15,000 round lots and re-ordered every 90 days. When you build a range in the back yard with rope pull plates plates, a pin table, plus IPSC targets then bust cap every day, it take a wee bit of ammo to feed the tiger. I have 6 shot bags full of spent primers that I use for sand bags. I reload everything from the 458 Lott to the 380 ACP. We also do 28ga and 410 shells. I have two slow progressive reloaders, a PW M-II and a Dillon 550 with the auto stuff on top. I also have a couple shell loaders and an old Rockchucker. And a partridge in a pear tree.
Best,
Ed
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| Posted: Sat Oct 10th, 2009 01:36 PM |
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32nd Post |
RaySendero
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Sorry but seems I lost count somewhere along the way!
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| Posted: Sat Oct 10th, 2009 05:24 PM |
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33rd Post |
Paul B
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RaySendero wrote: Sorry but seems I lost count somewhere along the way!
Yeah, me too. The truth of the matter is I didn't have enough fingers and toes to keep count. I started loading my own in 1954, .38 Spl. for the S&W 38/44 Oitdoorsman revolver I got for my birthday.
At a rough conservative estimate though, somewhere between 250 K and 500 K, mostly handgun rounds as practice ammo for a couple of rural law enforcment offices when I was loading on a commercial basis. usual orders were for 10K of either .38 Spl., .357 mag. or 9MM depending on who ordered what. I also did load work up for individual rifle loads on a strictly custom basis, I also loaded .45 ACP for myself.
I figure I'm still learning and probably never will know it all. Probably one of the greatest learning experience was when a neightbor came over to he house and asked me to figure out what to use in his 7.7 Hauck-Piasano, a wildcat based on the 7.7 Jap round. At least he got the dies with the rifle. Dang thing was really nothing more than a .308with a difficult to form case. Oh well it was his toy and the money was good. Why anyone would put that much money into a Jap rifle as way beyond me. Still is, but working up th loads for the gun was a great learning experience..
Paul B.
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| Posted: Sat Oct 17th, 2009 01:13 AM |
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34th Post |
SCSlim
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At well over 100,000 rounds (estimated - never counted every one of them), I figure the learning has just begun in ernest.
You could say that Tiger Woods has figured out how to play golf. Still, I'll bet he still keeps his eye on the ball all the way through his every swing. Complacency and gun powder can make things get real interesting in a real hurry.
Last edited on Sat Oct 17th, 2009 01:15 AM by SCSlim
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Onero ergo sum (I load, therefore I am).
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| Posted: Sat Oct 17th, 2009 02:13 AM |
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35th Post |
Timberghozt
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Rapier wrote: A jorney of 1,000 miles begins with but a single step.
My Jorney has been a long and fun trip. Been reloading for near 50 years. When I was shooting 3 gun, IPSC, Plates, Pins and few silhouettes while I was resting, I ordered componets in 15,000 round lots and re-ordered every 90 days. When you build a range in the back yard with rope pull plates plates, a pin table, plus IPSC targets then bust cap every day, it take a wee bit of ammo to feed the tiger. I have 6 shot bags full of spent primers that I use for sand bags. I reload everything from the 458 Lott to the 380 ACP. We also do 28ga and 410 shells. I have two slow progressive reloaders, a PW M-II and a Dillon 550 with the auto stuff on top. I also have a couple shell loaders and an old Rockchucker. And a partridge in a pear tree.
Best,
Ed
I certainly do agree with Ed.,I have loaded for many different chamberings and for wildcats but I still learn with every new chambering.Something that is..all are different and require a little bit of detail that is different to understand the case.Bottlenecks and straight walls all havethe same characteristics but each is a study of its own to ring accuracy out of it.I think that is what keeps me handloading.Its like a puzzle to solve and it has me hooked.I won`t shoot a factory round unless I have no other choice.Does that make me a master? No, I still learn every time I pull the trigger on a new load. But I have put many a handloaded round through my guns and still have my eyes and fingers...and some damned deadly long range loads,hunting loads and poodle shooter loads for my pistols.
TG
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TnTom
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If your asking how long does it take to learn to load round? Not very long. If you've loaded a bad round you'll probably no that pretty quick to. If your asking how long will it take to know everything about reloading probably about 3 life times.
I think it takes a lot longer to gain the confidence your probably looking for or asking about.
There's the question also about how much do you want to know? Reloading goes way beyond "reloading".
The money involved can really be excessive if you get heading down the wrong path in the learning curve.
I'd say that the end of the summer of the first year you have probably a good handle on the important basics needed to load a safe round. From then on out I think its mostly exploring the various combinations that can be utilized efficiently to gain accuracy and at the same time minimizing the cost (and cost is really something I have to keep an eye on).
Variation is the single most critical factor that leads to inaccuracy and again cost. Get rid of the variation in your loading variables (those functionally critical variables) and you will gain accuracy and reduce cost and will have mastered reloading.
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OldStuffer
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Force_Recon_Marine wrote: Just out of curiosity, How many rounds does it take before you really know what you are doing? I counted my empty primer boxes today and I am somewhere between 17 and 1800 rounds and I still learn something nearly everyday about reloading. Either from the HB or by my own mistakes. This site has been a great learning tool for me and I am sure for many others. So my question is this, How many does it take before you have it all mastered? Is there even a number out there that high?I know there are several guys on here in the tens of thousands. How many rounds have you loaded in your lifetime?
Oh lord, to try to put a number on them all.........
Trap shooting with dad in my teens, loading about 100 rounds a week we shot up between us, times 3 years or so. Then add in the tinkering I stated doing handloading his .308 and the weekly knockout shotgun shoots @ a local aircraft manufacturer employees R&R site for at least 2 years, then 3 years of loading and shooting large bore bullseye league and IDPA in the years surrounding the turn of the century,a dn now, I have loaded up 3K just in .45acp with my return to IDPA shooting since March.
I had to go, 10,000-50,000, I sincerely believe I fall in there someplace.
I also do not hardly "have it mastered".
I don't personally think there IS a "number" to put the "expert" label on a handloader, I think it covers such a vast range of possibilities that, it hinges more on those variables, with a "round count", than on a "round count" alone.
While I have loaded thousands, maybe 10,000 shotgun shells, in everything from a 1400fps 7/8 oz dove load to a buffered 2 3/4" "short magnum" holding 1 5/8oz of lead (and some buckshot loads recently), I have not yet loaded non-lead at all. It is a different animal, and I am studying it, as it is coming my way. I have not actually patterned a single shotgun shell (nor thrown any accross my chronograph (really don't want to spray it, makes me nervous to point a shotgun at it)).
While I have loaded .308 Winchester to most incarnations imaginable (including a recreation of Remington's "accelerator" saboted .223 round (a fair ammount of research and "sweating" went into that one before the trigger got pulled)), I have not "wildcatted" the round into anything else but .308 Win. I have about 800 rounds of .308 to my count, that is all, as I still have the last 2 flats out of a brick of WLR's that I bought, so far unused, arround 1982. And I have handloaded no other rifle rounds.
While I have loaded a fair ammount of .38 spl. and .357 Mag. back when I shot league with dad's Blackhawk, and in most possible variations (including a 1700fps 110gr JHP (Herco)), and a similar ammount of 9mm Luger, they pale before the thousands of rounds of .45acp that I have loaded, most for IDPA competition, some for personal defence. Lasercast actually used to make a 155 gr .452 LSWC, 6 went thru my 1911 for testing, digested them fine, I think I have a good bit of knowledge with .45acp, but, no other handgun rounds other than those above. No "wildcatting" here either, tinkering with .400 Cor-Bon, anything.
Also not a huge ammount of powders have I used. Most of my powder selections have been made by the loads I decided to use, not a lot of testing on my part to "locate the best in a specific load combination". The deer hunting ammo, the sabot round, and the .45 for cleanliness of burn/minimal residue, are exceptions.
For the folks who ask about loading data, I have to consult my manuals, I have nowhere near enough variety of experience to, off the top of my head, have any kind of "feel" for "how much of Powder X would make a fair load in calibre A with bullet B?"
Most of my manuals are now, at least 10 years old, some are 25, I am shopping updates currently. Fortunately, a ton of data in available on the internet, and in places like here, from others with experience.
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DesertMarine
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Started reloading in 1974 with a Lee hand loading tool that you had to pound the primer out for 357. I started really figuring out what I was doing after reading books and magazines dedicated to precision shooting. Still learning about reloading. The input from so many persons here adds a lot to the learning curve.
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TnTom
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i think the lee hand loader was the slickest invention ever came to the shooting industry.
I used one with my .220 Swift, and would throw it and my powder and dipper, primers, and bullets in my back pack and go to the desert and shoot Jacks outside of Tempe back in the '70's. Load right there in the field.
I actually had it out last night to use the depriming cup to get some .220 rocket cases ready. Hadn't had it out in years.
It was like reuniting with an old friend.
Last edited on Thu Nov 5th, 2009 04:39 AM by TnTom
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