| Posted: Mon Dec 10th, 2007 12:34 AM |
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10-S-C-Vol
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Being fairly new to handloading, I have not ventured into the area of "compressed" loads but would like to know more about it to determine the possible benefits. I noticed that my reloading manual does list some Max loads with "c" for compressed. Okay, now I will sit back and listen (watch) the pros.
Gary
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10th, 2007 01:20 AM |
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TasunkaWitko
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welcome to the HB s-c!
i am by no means a pro, but my understanding from reading manuals (not from experience) is that compressed loads can be and often are safe under the right conditions with the right powders and should not be shied away from as long as the hand loader is aware of what he is doing. in some circumstances, compressed loads can actually have lower pressures than loads that do not fill the case.
that's about ALL i know on the subject, so i will also sit back also and learn a thing or two about it.
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10th, 2007 01:30 AM |
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wolfkill
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10-S-C-Vol wrote: I have not ventured into the area of "compressed"
Nor have I tried them.
I too will be interested in the benefits if any. I had a buddy that pushed all of his reloads to the max and I kept telling him. "Cripes if you wanted a magnum why didn't you buy one to begin with?"
His theory was when the bolt got hard to open he'd back her off and that was when he had reached max load.
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10th, 2007 01:41 AM |
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sdb777
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I have compressed a load or more. Understanding was that the ignition of the powder was better? Was it, I really don't know....but the extra powder being expelled from the muzzle gave an extreme muzzle flash! These were barrels that were in the 28-32" range, and the cartridges were all bigger then .30 caliber....projectiles were very large. Was trying to get the best performance for long range competitions.
The barrels proved to be best with moderately slow powder and didn't need to be compressed.
Biggest thing to remember is to not compress to the point that the nose of the projectile does not get abused(bent, crushed, or deformed)!
Scott (60.0grs is better then 85.0 and a 'crunch') B
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10th, 2007 01:53 AM |
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klallen
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i've had a couple rifles top out with a compressed load. if worked up to that point, load densities in excess of 100% can certainly be safe.
with regards to accuracy issues associated with a compressed load, there's a school of thought that believes that the compact powder column of a compressed load in the case forces a uniform, more consistent burn. and as we all know, consistency in all things is the best way to achieving accuracy.
if you think about a cartridge that is loaded to an 80% or 90% load density, there is an air pocket in the case at the shoulder area, between the powder and the base of the bullet. place this cartridge on its side, cycled into the chamber of a rifle, and you can see how, with the settling of the powder, the position of that air pocket will move. and if the cartridge were allowed to sit in that position long enough, it is certainly realistic that the air pocket could run from the base to shoulder of the case. of course, putting the gun to the shoulder in a sling, carrying it with muzzle to the ground and back into the truck setting on the back seat, at any given time that air pocket could be pretty much anywhere in the case and a consistent powder column is lost. that's what the accuracy guru's don't want.
I gotta admit i've been real pleased with the accuracy achieve with loads "not" considered compressed but certainly don't discredit the above notion if the ultimate in accuracy is your consideration. korey
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10th, 2007 02:34 AM |
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10-S-C-Vol
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One more thing -- how exactly does the compression occur? Is this when, the powder is so full that the projectile is packing the powder?
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10th, 2007 03:34 AM |
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klallen
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"how exactly does the compression occur? Is this when, the powder is so full that the projectile is packing the powder?"
bingo !!! 
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10th, 2007 03:50 AM |
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Timberghozt
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I have only in my experience with handloading used a compressed charge on one chambering.One being a 223 AI and Varget with a 75 grain AMAX if I recall.The accuracy did not impress me to achieve the velcocity I wanted for 600 meter shooting so I abandoned it after playing with the notion of keeping the load.
I am not saying that perhaps it can yield a more accurate load,just I haven`t seen it.I usually tend to stop when I see the groups I am after at velocities I will accept.If I don`t,I change powders.,,and try again..Ahh the joys of being a committed handloader. As with anything,err on the side of caution if you exceed a book max and are compressing charges.Know all the signs of pressure to be looking for.Its better to take a bit of charge off a load than to damage or lose your gun,your eyes or worse.
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10th, 2007 04:56 AM |
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proman1
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When working with compressed loads it is very important to follow the recipe in the manuals, "do not substitute" any of the components listed..... Even if it appears to be a "safe" load with lower pressures listed than uncompressed loads...
The published data has been worked up accordingly by experts in the labs @ the bullet manufacturers plant.. follow it wisely...
Some bullets are longer than others and have a longer bearing surface, the "ogive" can come into contact with the rifling and will spike pressures fasssst.......Especially with max loads...
Bullet design and composition of metals come into play... Noslers makes it clear in the 5th manual... "Due to internal construction differences, ALWAYS begin with starting loads when using Partition Gold or Failsafe products"
There has been reports of bullets being pushed out of the cases under heavily compressed loads, creating pressure problems simply by the OAL of the cartridge becoming too long and since most of us feed the rifle one cartridge at a time when shooting for accuracy at the range, we bypass the magazine which would of immediately told us somethings wrong....
I've had that happen to me years ago with a 300 Win Mag compressed load that I substituted with an X bullet......."Stupid, Stupid, Stupid"...... Case split and I could not open the bolt at the range... I stopped shooting those loads immediately..
At home I used a chunk of 2x4 to gradually beat the bolt open, I pulled the bullets on several of the cartridges and weighed the charges to see if I screwed up there, nope !! spot on, the powder charge was correct... I measured the OAL and "viola" there was the problem ... the bullets actually eased out of the case with the longer X bullets, ... Cycling a few of the rounds through the chamber revealed shiny spots on the bullets indicating contact with the rifling and they would not fit in the magazine of my Win 70...
It is imperative to keep a log book of all your reloads with the data recorded accurately, it will save you a lot of grief later on !!! Plus it may save you money by not replicating loads that were scrapped...(powder charge, bullets, primers = bad accuracy/velocity..etc.......)
"Stay on the safe side"
Proman1
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10th, 2007 05:38 AM |
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Eagleye
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Compressed loads are a way of life with some cases and slower powders. The 7x57 comes to mind. Most loads with 160 grain bullets are compressed, some even with the 140's & 150's are. Never got into any trouble as long as common sense prevailed. You need a Chronograph to determine what is going on. Some powders are less dense and take up more room in a case. This often leads to a compressed load situation. Some "Spherical" types of powders cannot be compressed any amount simply because of their density and lack of airspace between granules. I had a pet load with one of my 7mm STW's using the 160 grain bulllet and H5010 that was very heavily compressed. It was accurate, consistent in velocity and showed no pressure signs at all. Regards, Eagleye.
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10th, 2007 04:55 PM |
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wheezengeezer
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a compressed powder charge is no less forgiving than an uncompressed one.it is all the weight and type of powder.a case full of h870 in the 25/06,level to the top,120 gr bullet will be somewhere at 62 gr.it will be compressed about as much as you can and let the bullet stay put.it wont be a top velocity load simply because it is too slow of powder.h4831 on the other hand may top out in pressure before 100% load density is reached.all other things being equal the slower the powder, more is required to reach top velocity.eventually you will run out of case capacity to reach the desired velocity.a 257 whby will work with a slower powder than the 25/06 because of this.the only time that compression is in the extreme case that powder granules are crushed and therefore changing the surface area and burn rate.
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10th, 2007 09:12 PM |
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Force_Recon_Marine
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I have compressed a few different loads, but like the others say above, do NOT substitute. You need a slow powder for a c load. I was loading a .257 STW with 91 grains of Retumbo. It was full and well compressed when the bullet was seated. I had no signs of excessive pressure but Retumbo is very slow burning.
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11th, 2007 12:48 AM |
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wheezengeezer
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Force_Recon_Marine wrote: I have compressed a few different loads, but like the others say above, do NOT substitute. You need a slow powder for a c load. I was loading a .257 STW with 91 grains of Retumbo. It was full and well compressed when the bullet was seated. I had no signs of excessive pressure but Retumbo is very slow burning.
a faster powder than retumbo may give a higher velocity.only testing will tell.my idea of an ideal load is one that gives top velocity with a lightly compressed load,accuracy of course is important.there is no voodoo involved.a compressed charge is simply more weight in the same space.did you ever pull a bullet from a hornaday light magnum?they have a process that packs the powder in tight.
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11th, 2007 06:52 PM |
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Force_Recon_Marine
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Another user uses H1000 in his 257. I havent tried it but be said when he pushed it he was splitting necks with it. 
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11th, 2007 08:45 PM |
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wheezengeezer
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257 whby? h1000 is one of the best for that.with properly annealed necks i have blown primers before i split necks.too much powder is just that,too much.if he had a compressed load ,say 2 grains over max,then it was not the compressed that did it,it was the 2gr over that did.a compressed load of h1000 with a 87 gr bullet in the whby might get you up to speed.but i doubt you will get any pressure signs out of it.
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11th, 2007 09:07 PM |
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barebackpat
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I was using h1000 in my 257 stw, and i was getting too much pressure. I was not over maximum charge or compressing powder but it would blow primers and split necks. And with those velocities i was tryuing to attain 100 grain bullet to 4000fps my accuracy went bad and i was showing sever pressure signs so i backed off to where that particular gun shot good and called it a day. I have shot a 223 with varget, that was compressed loads with very good results and no signs of pressure. Just my two cents. Pat
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11th, 2007 09:27 PM |
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Paul Tummers
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I try to avoid compressed loads as much as I do try to avoid loads under 95%.
I had much help in avoiding compressed loads by using a drop-tube.
Perhaps it is just a wrong way of thinking, but I always have the feeling that compressing the powder cracks a part of the kernels which may change the burning characteristics in an unpredictable way.
Paul.
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11th, 2007 10:44 PM |
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wheezengeezer
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if it breaks the powder up in darn sure can change the characteristics. barebackpat,i had a situation a lot like yours.my 6.5/06 was showing pressure signs with barely more than a starting load.i didnt believe it untill i blew primers.the cups dissapeard and the anvils blew into the magazine well of my FN98.didnt even notice any gas blowing into my face.never got close to the max load,published in a hodgdon manual.first hint of extra care needed,no pressure data.that was before they went to a transducer in the lab to use on actual rifles.what that shows us is that a max load in one rifle may be way over in another.that is why we need to work up.
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11th, 2007 10:50 PM |
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barebackpat
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you hit the nail on the head there. A safe load in one rifle may not be safe in the next rifle. So you are right work up slow and use caution. Pat
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13th, 2007 12:15 AM |
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chuckscap
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Jack O'Connor's classsic 270 load of 60g of H831 behind a 130g spitzer is a compressed load. My rifle likes a little more H4831. It has always shot nickel sized 3 shot groups at 3110 fps with this compressed load. As always start lower and work your way up.
Chuck
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