| Posted: Wed Dec 3rd, 2008 01:58 PM |
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TheTinMan
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Just starting out and trying to research everything before actually making cartridges. Got a set of Hornady Custom Grade Dies for .45 Auto. Reading book & die instructions, the seating die apparently has a "built-in" crimper which is optional. As I understand it, .45 Auto headspaces on the case mouth so crimping is not necessary (or even a good idea?).
Am I off base here?
My apologies if I don't have all of the reloading lingo right yet.
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| Posted: Wed Dec 3rd, 2008 02:06 PM |
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klallen
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yeah, you'll be crimping. ya bell just the beginning of the mouth of the case to accept the base of the bullet. otherwise you'll be ruining cases if you don't. Once the bullet is seated to the depth you desire, you'll back out the seating plug, and then you'll taper crimp the case mouth back to proper specs. nothing really aggressive. Just enough to be snug around the bullet to hold it in place and still properly serve headspacing needs. good luck.
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| Posted: Wed Dec 3rd, 2008 06:46 PM |
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saddlesore
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45 ACP takes a taper crimp, not a roll crimp.Yes you need to crimp it.
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| Posted: Wed Dec 3rd, 2008 07:02 PM |
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TheTinMan
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OK so I do need to crimp. The die instructions say that my seating die can also (taper?) crimp. Hornady die instructions
How do I know how much crimp is correct? The instructions include the statement "Once you've reached the desired crimp..." but do not explain what that crimp is.
Should I be aiming for a specific outside diameter for the case mouth? Matching that measurement for a factory round makes sense to me here but I've got a lot to learn. Eyeballing it to make sure that the "bell" from the expander die is gone seems obvious but I don't know how much farther to go beyond that.
Thanks for your help!
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| Posted: Wed Dec 3rd, 2008 07:43 PM |
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72coupe
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I don't shoot much 45, only about couple thousand rounds per year. But I just make sure the case mouth is snug up against the bullet.
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| Posted: Wed Dec 3rd, 2008 08:25 PM |
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DesertMarine
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I had the same problem when I started loading 45 ACP. I solved that by seating without a crimp and started using a taper crimp die and added another step to the process. Worked out good.
The instructions look like generic instructions and more towards a roll crimp used on rifle ammo.
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| Posted: Wed Dec 3rd, 2008 08:28 PM |
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Dragon88
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I put a very light crimp, basically the die just touches the mouth of the case and makes it tight against the bullet. It's almost too small to measure, but the noticeable crimp is about .01" on my reloads and on some factory ammo I have. After a few rounds you will get the feel of it.
As a tip, don't seat and crimp hollowpoints in one step. I have found that crimping will cause the seating stem to deform the hollowpoint. I seat all the bullets in one round then crimp as the last step.
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| Posted: Wed Dec 3rd, 2008 10:21 PM |
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springer1911
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I taper crimp my45ACP in a separate step also. I find that a crimp of .469 right at the casemouth works best for my guns.
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| Posted: Wed Dec 3rd, 2008 10:49 PM |
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barebackpat
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I just finished up loading about 1000 45 acp. These were my first for this caliber. But i just did a few at first and set the crimp slowly until they cycled good in my gun and called it good. I just have the one 45 sothat makes it easier for me.
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Bigdog57
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"As a tip, don't seat and crimp hollowpoints in one step. I have found that crimping will cause the seating stem to deform the hollowpoint. I seat all the bullets in one round then crimp as the last step."
Yep, I had this happen with some .357 Magnum JHPs. Have not had it happen with .45ACP. I crimp lightly, just enough to 'feel' smoother and not have a sharp edge to the case mouth. My .45ACPs function perfectly. I mostly use plated roundnose or flat points, with no cannelure.
The .357s work perfectly too - figured the crimp out early when I had a couple run forward in the case and jam my revolver. That was some years back though.
It doesn't take much to hold snugly. 
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TheTinMan
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DesertMarine wrote: I had the same problem when I started loading 45 ACP. I solved that by seating without a crimp and started using a taper crimp die and added another step to the process. Worked out good.
The instructions look like generic instructions and more towards a roll crimp used on rifle ammo.
Well, there's a lot to learn here. My Hornady seating die also can do an optional roll crimp, and the guy at Hornady told me not to use it for .45 Auto.
Looks like I need a separate crimping die. Hornady, Lee & Lyman all make dies for a taper crimp. Lee also makes a "factory crimp die". Which is better for .45?
Thanks to everyone for their help.
P.S. Hornady dies come with two seating stems, one for round nose bullets and the other for wad cutters. Yes it seems obvious, but there's no mention of the two alternatives in their instructions.
Last edited on Mon Dec 8th, 2008 02:19 PM by TheTinMan
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SCSlim
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TheTinMan wrote: Well, there's a lot to learn here. My Hornady seating die also can do an optional roll crimp, and the guy at Hornady told me not to use it for .45 Auto.
Looks like I need a separate crimping die. Hornady, Lee & Lyman all make dies for a taper crimp. Lee also makes a "factory crimp die". Which is better for .45?
A "factory crimp" die for the .45 ACP would be a taper crimp die made to apply the degree of taper crimp that is applied to factory loaded ammo during manufacturing. A regular taper crimp die will allow you to adjust the amount of crimp you want to apply. Either one will work. The .45 ACP is properly taper-crimped, as are most auto pistol rounds, to preserve the case mouth for head-spacing while affording a good purchase on the shank of the bullet.
Without taper crimping, some auto pistol bullets will get pushed back further into the cartridge case as they are fed up the feed ramp and into the chamber. This seems to happen a bit more often with blow-back actions than with locked-breech recoil-operated guns, probably because the recoil spring has to be stronger in a blow-back action than in a locked-breech set up, in order to retard opening of the action long enough to allow the bullet to exit the barrel and pressures to subside to a safer level. That means the bullet gets rammed into the ramp with more force. This can raise chamber pressures significantly, as well as create an accuracy-reducing "free bore" effect. As to how much crimp to apply, you should feel some slight resistance at the bottom of the seating/crimping stroke, just the barest hesitation. If the case buckles, back off a ways. It doesn't take a lot of crimp to hold auto pistol bullets in place, but it is a necessary step.
What the taper crimp does is press the case wall (near the mouth of the case) uniformly up agains the shank of the bullet for a snug fit. A roll crimp, on the other hand, rolls the case mouth into the bullet or its cannelure. This is a good crimp to apply to heavy loads or heavy bullets, such as a 300 grain cast lead bullet in the .45 Colt. Rimmed, straight-walled revolver cartridges headspace on the rim, so it doesn't matter that the case mouth has been rolled into the bullet. The roll crimp, properly applied, helps keep bullets from "jumping the crimp" when the gun recoils. Without it, it's possible for a bullet to jump forward (actually, the cylinder recoils away from the bullet, which wants to stay put due to inertia) far enough to extend beyond the cylinder face and tie up the action.
Hope this helps.
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miestro_jerry
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I use the taper crimp that came with my Dillon dies, but before then I used a Pacific or a CH or similar die. You have to judge home much you need to taper crimp by trying a load round in your chamber.
Jerry
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