| Posted: Wed Dec 17th, 2008 05:40 AM |
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1st Post |
Bluedot
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Gas prices have gone down cause the price of crude has gone down. But !!!!! Bullet prices are still going up!!!!!!!!! And the price of Copper and Lead had hit almost rock bottom!!!!!!!
Who is sticking it to us? Is it the Manufacturers,? is it the Middlemen? or is it the Retailers?
Those of you who are able go to the Shot Show next month, please ask each Bullet manufaturer this question. Hornady, Sierra, Speer, Nosler, Barnes and others! Don't leave any of them out!
And come back and tell us on this forum what the excuses are!
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| Posted: Wed Dec 17th, 2008 01:27 PM |
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2nd Post |
sdb777
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I can only speak of the retail level. The store I work is still only marking up the prices at 31% margin....same mark-up from three years ago. The cost has gone up before the product gets to us....
I'm sure the are a huge number of reasons, but gas has only gone down because it was over-inflated by the market guys on Wall St. in the first place. It was something that happened due to the excess monies in the market, and as everyone knows(or doesn't know) you get whatever the market will allow.
Gas/oil prices do not determine the total of cost of everything, it just plays a big part of it.
Scott (I made money when it was up) B
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| Posted: Thu Dec 18th, 2008 03:13 AM |
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3rd Post |
swampshooter
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Most manufacturers have probably bought lead and copper last summer when prices were still inflated. It might take some time to work through that inventory. Steel prices haven't came down yet either.
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| Posted: Sat Feb 6th, 2010 02:00 PM |
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4th Post |
panman
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I believe that WE are sticken it to ourselfs!!.We keep bying at inflatin prices and they will keep sellin.A larger profit margin always works for any bisnes.If we buy just enough to keep goin and cut down on shootin some... pan.
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| Posted: Sat Feb 6th, 2010 03:24 PM |
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5th Post |
wsmreloader
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AS a retail store owner, I can tell you that without a doubt, retail margins overall has NOT gone up, but instead have gone DOWN. Lots of factors here, but stiffer competition from internet sales from "companies" operating out of basements with no overhead , paying no insurance, no phone bills and usually no taxes, with no storefront expenses to compete with. The higher cost of goods < any goods, including bullets> are NOT ending up in the retailer bank accounts. IF a retailer is able to keep the same margin as he did five years ago, and keep his volume the same level, he is one of the lucky ones.
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| Posted: Sat Feb 6th, 2010 04:08 PM |
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6th Post |
Don Fischer
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WSM,
I buy all my supplies I can from a retailer. Problem is that there are a lot of things I use the retailers here don't carry. 16ga wads, forget it. Same for any bullet casting tools and cas checks. Those things I get from Midway. Add in shipping and the Midway costs and retailers are competative, Midway a bit higher on things retailers have.
Oh btw, the closest retailer is 35mi from me, the closest decent one is 70mi.
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| Posted: Sat Feb 6th, 2010 04:42 PM |
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7th Post |
TnTom
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I'd love a 31% profit margin,
Powder is another one. Up about $4.00/lb. since last year. I piggy back my order with 2 other local dealers to afford hazmat. There are 3 of us who share the hazmat cost for both powder and primers. $24.00/container and powder and primers will not ship in the same container. Its goin up again soon.
I think bullet mfg's, are making a lot of money with the gov't right now, just guessing. The mfg'ing cost for some bullets is going to be less, high volume military rounds and the less shot civilian bullets and components costs are going to make up the difference. We pick that cost. I think mfg'ing is dedicating a large percentage of equipment (presses) to the govt. The short run stuff like our needs will be second in line. I think that may be driving the cost up for us.
I also think the govt is seeing that it becomes more and more difficult/afordable for the private sector to shoot, one way or another. I have never seen this type of squeeze turn around.
I ask my wholesalers whats going on and they can't/won't give a straight answer.
Last edited on Sat Feb 6th, 2010 04:59 PM by TnTom
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| Posted: Sat Feb 6th, 2010 06:19 PM |
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8th Post |
Paul B
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"I also think the govt is seeing that it becomes more and more difficult/afordable for the private sector to shoot, one way or another. I have never seen this type of squeeze turn around."
There is an old saying that goes something like this. "Those that do not lern from history are doomed to repeat it." 
I'm sure that the fist question that pops into your mind is, "What in the hell does this have to do with the topic at hand?" Plenty, I'm thinking. I'm willing to bet that most of you here are too young to remember WW-2 and probably were not even born yet. Well, I was just a little kid back then myself but I listened and learned from an old guy who was a shooter and reloader when it really was not all that fashionable.
A little background. During WW-2, factory ammo was literally and figuratively totally unavailable as were new guns. Everything went to the war effort. Gasoline, meat and other products were severely rationed. Ammo? Forget about it. Very little sporting ammo to be found except .22 Long Rifle and 30-30. To qualify to get that, you have to be a farmer for the .22's and a rancher or sheep herder to get the 30-30's. The .22's were used to kill rabbits and other varmints eating valuable for the war effort vegtables and the 30-30's to keep predators from killing off stock, which brings us back to that old guy I mentioned.
His name was Louie and don't ask me has last name because as a kid I could not even pronounce it. He was know as"The Dutchman" but I think he was really German but kept it quiet. He used to shoot those old Schuetzen matches which used cast bullets only and no gas check. With ammo almost impossible to get, Louie made up large batches of cast bullets in various sizes and people who wanted to hunt would come to him for ammo. Thanks to the BATFE, Louie today would be a felon.   You could bring in your empty brass or he would "rent" you some of his, usually 5 rounds already loaded. He charged $5.00 a round if you used his brass and $1.00 a round if yours. Big money in the 1940's. On the "rented" brass, when you brought it back, he refunded $4.00. Probably quite fair considering the scarcity of any type of ammo.
That old gentleman mentored me in the use of cast bullets well into the 1950's before he passed and his lessons stuck well. These days, I probably shoot 100 rounds of cast bullet ammo for ever single jacketed bullet round. The point being, if you have some primers, a suitable powder, (Unique and #2400 come quickly to mind and there are others.) a good mold for the caliber you're shooting and gas checks, you can shoot when others have to stay home and mope about not having any ammo.
You can duplicate full power loads in rifles like the 30-30 or .32 win. Spl. with no problem. You can reach 30-30 speeds with a little experimentation in the .308 Win. or 30-06 whichwill allow you to go hunting. maybe not in the way you used to do it but I'll damn well bet you learn how to do a proper stalk. A 220 gr. bullet in the 1700 to 1900 FPS range from a 30-06 will do a serious number on any deer I've ever seen and I'm talking big Rocky Mountain Mule Deer. It just depends at which velocity your gun prefers with that bullet. One of these days, I'm gonna try and work up a cast bullet load for a .300 Win. mag. I see no reason why I can't reach at least 2000 plus with decent accuracy and little or no leading from that rifle. One of the 4895's should work just fine in that gun.
I'm thinking stuff could get a lot worse. As it is, we're fighting two wars right now, and there is the threat of Israel doing to iran which could very easily involve us as well. That would depend on what the Obamanation decides to do.  If we do end up in a third war,I'll bet what little ammo and componenets that are still available will dry up faster that spit on a hot sidewalk.
Thus endeth the history lesson. Make of it what you will. All I can say is when ammo and components disapear, I'll be at the range shooting my dinky lead bullets. If they outlaw lead I'll shoot them anyway only some of the targets may be moving.
Paul B.
Paul B.
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| Posted: Sat Feb 6th, 2010 07:30 PM |
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9th Post |
TnTom
Handloading Master
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Paul,
You've probably got a few years on me (not too many). I retired last year so the cost is more of an eye opener than when the eagle visited every week. I've had my retail shop for about 12 years now and sell class 1 firearms and I can really feel the crunch and shops like BPS, Dicks, etc can make it with volume and its getting harder and harder to make it all work. It was suppose to be what would tie up loose ends when I retired. Didn't plan on this the power grab by the govt. and this attempt at govt take over.
What they did to the credit aspect could have shut me down but I have run my business with little or almost no dependency on that element.
I sell at a fixed 8% over wholesale and have since I opened. There is less and less profit but I have loyal customers so it works out, at least for now. Taxes are getting bad. What I think will happen is that shops that don't show gross sales of over a certain amount will have their FFL's pulled. Its a good way to reduce firearm and related sales over all (a little at a time).
Your experience with the rationing was interesting to read. I remember stories my Uncle would tell me about the things that most folks didn't have. I have his old single barrel 12ga valuable enough to him at the time he carved his name in the stock so there was no mistaking who owned it.
I got into casting lead a number of years ago but so far its been handgun only. My Dad used to cast 30-06 when I was growing up in Alaska. That and 375 H/H. I've got a lot of the bullets he didn't shoot up (not much paper punching going on then) but I remember sitting at the kitchen table pouring and loading for the upcoming Moose, Goat,Sheep, Bear seasons. I don't ever recall eating beef the entire time we lived there.
I'm with you that there should be no reason to have to end our shooting but we need to plan ahead and put back powder and primers. It could easily be priced beyond the means of the populous. The focus on things to tax is all it would take.
One thing about casting lead is the learning curve and developing good solid rounds. It was a real rude awakening when I put my first rounds across the scale. Getting the porosity under control, correct temps, etc. Its fun though. I need to get a mold for .224 dia and try some target shooting with lead.
Last edited on Sat Feb 6th, 2010 07:47 PM by TnTom
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