| Posted: Fri Feb 20th, 2009 07:06 PM |
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IN.MY.SIGHTS
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I was lookin' at reload data and some powder charges had, lets say 57 grains. While others had 57.0C, what does the C mean. Heres an example.
130 GR. BAR TSX
IMR
IMR 7828 SSC
.277"
3.230"
55.0
2815
48,700 PSI
60.2C (grains)
3083
62,400 PSI
130 GR. BAR TSX
Winchester
Supreme 780
.277"
3.240"
55.5
2882
52,900 PSI
59.0 (grains)
60,000 PSI
130 GR. BAR TSX
Hodgdon
H4831
.277"
3.230"
54.0
2747
45,500 PSI
60.0C (grains)
3025
59,000 PSI
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| Posted: Fri Feb 20th, 2009 07:19 PM |
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3006 user
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The "C" stands for Compressed.. In other words, the bullet is seated, compressing the powder charge.
This is acceptible, within reason... If the manual says C, that's as far as you should go with a powder charge.
Welcome to this forum!!
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| Posted: Sat Feb 21st, 2009 02:57 AM |
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IN.MY.SIGHTS
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Thanks for the welcome, so I fill the the case with the powder and then just put the bullet in like normal?
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| Posted: Sat Feb 21st, 2009 04:04 AM |
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3006 user
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IN.MY.SIGHTS wrote: Thanks for the welcome, so I fill the the case with the powder and then just put the bullet in like normal?
No, not exactly-- you can't really fill the case completely...and still be able to seat a bullet.
Usually a compressed load fills the case to the junction of the neck and shoulder, and depending on the type of powder and bullet weight, maybe a little more.
A good long study of loading manuals such as Lyman, Lee, and others would be necessary before you even begin buying equipment and components.. They lay out procedures that are of great importance even to experienced handloaders..
I'm sure others on this forum would have similar advice.
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| Posted: Sat Feb 21st, 2009 04:35 AM |
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varmintcaller
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Welcome to the forum, 3006 user is right on.
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| Posted: Sat Feb 21st, 2009 05:24 AM |
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IN.MY.SIGHTS
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Thanks for the info. I'll look into it.
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| Posted: Sat Feb 21st, 2009 01:18 PM |
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Slingshot
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The thing with compressed charges is that when the bullet is seated even with a heavy crimp after about 24 Hours the bullet may move up a bit. Be careful with Compressed loads they usually tend to be toward the maximum load end. 
Slingshot / Jeff
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| Posted: Sat Feb 21st, 2009 02:28 PM |
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DesertMarine
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Echo what the others said. Never charge a case by volume, always by weight.
Question. Where did you find the load data and what caliber are you reloading? By the info you gave, looks like 270 Win or 270 WSM. Checked Hornady, Sierra and Hodgon manuals. Hornady does not list H4831. Sierra for that bullet shows 59.2C as max and Hodgon shows 57.0C as max. The load is too light for 270WSM with 63 gr minimum load. Make sure you approach this load with care starting out around 10% below max load.
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| Posted: Sat Feb 21st, 2009 03:07 PM |
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wheezengeezer
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Slingshot wrote: The thing with compressed charges is that when the bullet is seated even with a heavy crimp after about 24 Hours the bullet may move up a bit. Be careful with Compressed loads they usually tend to be toward the maximum load end.
Slingshot / Jeff
more often seen with ball powders.
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| Posted: Sat Feb 21st, 2009 03:36 PM |
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sako06
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I used 58gr of IMR 4831 in my 30-06 brass which fills the case up into the neck but with 165gr nosler solid base bullets my 5 shot group was under 7/16 inch.
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| Posted: Sat Feb 21st, 2009 10:47 PM |
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IN.MY.SIGHTS
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DesertMarine wrote: Echo what the others said. Never charge a case by volume, always by weight.
Question. Where did you find the load data and what caliber are you reloading? By the info you gave, looks like 270 Win or 270 WSM. Checked Hornady, Sierra and Hodgon manuals. Hornady does not list H4831. Sierra for that bullet shows 59.2C as max and Hodgon shows 57.0C as max. The load is too light for 270WSM with 63 gr minimum load. Make sure you approach this load with care starting out around 10% below max load.
I found it at the Hodgdon website.
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| Posted: Sat Feb 21st, 2009 11:44 PM |
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Rockydog
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I routinely load 58 grains of 4831 under a 130 Grain Hornady interlock. It's a very accurate load in my .270 Savage. 1.25 @ 200 yds. We had this discussion either on here or over on BSB before. While you should base your loads on weight it's pretty common knowledge that a 130 grainer over all the 4831 you could get in a case was the oldtime load for 270 Win. While I generally agree that you should weigh loads rather than use volume, there are a couple of million Lee Powder Scoop measure sets out there that might give a little credence to common sense volume that might prove otherwise. RD
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| Posted: Sun Feb 22nd, 2009 04:50 AM |
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sako06
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I use an OHAUS DUO 7200 Powder measure but I set it up by weighing the dropped charges,with extruded powders I get an approximate load then put it in the scale and use a trickler to get the exact charge weight,with ball & flake the ohaus throws accurate charges and more accurate with sc extruded.We just gave friends a Dillon RL550B for inviting us to Pennsylvania for an Odocoileus virginianus hunt,they used the dillon powder measure & checked the charges in dropped it was with 2 tenths which is close enough. Last edited on Sun Feb 22nd, 2009 04:51 AM by sako06
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| Posted: Sun Feb 22nd, 2009 04:33 PM |
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swampshooter
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I know quite a few benchrest shooters who throw charges by volume and have never had any idea how much the powder charges weigh. When i first started loading in the late 50's we filled a 30/06 case full of surplus H-4831 struck it off at the top with a knife and seated 125 gr. bullets. Didn't have a scale back then. These loads shot very well and I took quite a bit of game with them. P.S. If they grew any I never noticed it. Last edited on Sun Feb 22nd, 2009 04:45 PM by swampshooter
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416RigbyHunter
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I'll give you a quick and easy method of getting the powder of compressed loads into your cases.
Whether you weigh the charge or use a measure, it doesn't matter.
Have all your cases in a loading block, throw/weigh on your scale pan, have a powder funnel in the case you are charging, pour the powder from the scale pan at an angle to the centre line of the funnel so the powder 'swirls' around the axis of the funnel, the powder will go like that of a 'whirlpool' as flows into the case mouth.
If the load is heavily compressed, you alter the speed at which the powder flows into the case to allow more time for packing. Either way, you should see a constant flow of powder going into the case mouth.
If it is showing more opening than powder, you need to pour faster. If the powder bunches at the mouth and stops swirling, you need to pour slower.
It looks very similar to how water empties down a drain plug.
I use this method always, it will get powder that would normally be above the case mouth, when dropped by a funnel or measure, down to the neck/shoulder juncture without tapping or vibrating.
It will improve accuracy, because the powder is packed the same case to case without any variation.
You will notice that dropped charges, even those that are compressed, will have varying packing schemes, if you take 5 rounds out of a batch and shake them close to your ear, some will have powder moving and some won't.
This is not what we want for good uniform ignition shot-shot.
Give it a go, and let me know how you get on.
Cheers.
416RigbyHunter.
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416, Very good post. Have you been looking over my shoulder when I try to get 25.5 grains of 4064 in a .223 case? You've described the process that I use exactly. This should be a big help to beginners. RD
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As the other poster's have stated use exstreme caution with any compressed loads. After firing your first initial round of the new load pull the round and inspection for signs of excessive pressure. And the pull every third round until you have shot 20 or so and are comfortable with the load. If you change any anything in the round different primer, bullet, or case start at the begining.
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wheezengeezer
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recoil freak wrote: As the other poster's have stated use exstreme caution with any compressed loads. After firing your first initial round of the new load pull the round and inspection for signs of excessive pressure. And the pull every third round until you have shot 20 or so and are comfortable with the load. If you change any anything in the round different primer, bullet, or case start at the begining.
so are you saying the compression itself or the weight of the powder charge itself ?
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recoil freak
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Most but not necessarily all Compressed loads are generally towards the high end of max
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saddlesore
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Can't belive no one has suggested a drop tube. Find an old aluminum arrow and cut it to about 18". Tape or fix a funnel on on end. Use some rubber bands and attach it to the side of your powder measure.
Throw a light chrage thru the measure, put it in the scale pan and trickle the remaining amount desired into the pan until you reach your load. Holding an empty case under the end of the arrww, slowly drop the powder into the funnnel on top and let it drop down thru the tube into your case.
The one made works down thru .243. might have to get a smaller tube for .223.
I have loaded many .06 loads with 60 gr of 4831 and loads in .243 where if you just dropped the powder into the case thru a short funnel,i t would not all fit and some would even spill out the top. In the 150-160 gr class of .06 bullets, you probably can't get enough 4831 in the case to hurt yourself. NOT TRUE with 180+ gr bullets
Many times you can make a compressed load into a a non compressed load this way
I don't know as if I would do it with ball powder which packs pretty tight anyhow.
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