| Posted: Fri Jul 10th, 2009 01:42 PM |
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Slingshot
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Hello,
How do you figure your cartridge overall length tuned for each rifle? I know there is gadgets out there to buy to figure it out but is there a easier or more econimical way to do it?
I remember my Dad mentioning something about "smoking" the cartridge and inserting it into the rifle but it was many years ago and I forgot how to do it.
any suggestions would be appreciated.
Jeff / Slingshot
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| Posted: Fri Jul 10th, 2009 01:58 PM |
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miestro_jerry
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I start with the publish length and work in around until it works properly, checking with a set of caliper for each and every cartridge I am trying out.
In the past I used this as a check on when I started to change the depth of the bullet:
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=559802
Then when I found the right OAL, I made my own gage.
Jerry
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| Posted: Fri Jul 10th, 2009 02:18 PM |
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Slingshot
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I have one of those also, I should of been more specific. The COL I can firgure out I meant the OAL as in bullet seating.
Jeff
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| Posted: Fri Jul 10th, 2009 05:05 PM |
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miestro_jerry
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Trial and error.
Jerry
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| Posted: Fri Jul 10th, 2009 09:44 PM |
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varmintcaller
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Most of the reloading manuals give you directions on the "smoking the bullet" method. Its pretty simple, but I would suggest you get a Hornady OAL guage. It will pay for itself many times over.
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| Posted: Sat Jul 11th, 2009 05:29 PM |
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fryboy
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smoking the bullet is fairly easy take a unprimed sized case and barely start a bullet( do not smoke yet and make sure the seating die is too high to crimp ) insert and chamber , it should engage the rifling and push the bullet into the case ,sometimes if the case is barely sized the bullet will stay stuck in the barrel but usually not ( if stuck use a wooden dowel rod to gently tap it out-the closer to bore size the better ) once chambered and removed ( intact )put in press and raise the ram then screw in seating stem until it just barely touches the bullet lower the ram and screw in seating stem perhaps 1/8th of a turn more and raise the ram ( it will barely move the bullet) remove and hold by the base,i recommend using a bic lighter as opposed to the sooty smoky candle as candle soot is much thicker ,turn the shell around in ur fingers covering the bullet with a fine thin film of soot.gingerly insert and chamber and just as gingerly remove and look at the bullet,one should still have rifling touching at this point and it will show as brite spots around the circumference thru the soot down to rub marks on the jacket repeat until the rifling marks the soot but not jacket ( i use 2-10 dummy rounds for this -the first one gets me close then i fine tune it -the last i keep for a gage )various barrels react differently to seating depths , some prefer crush fit( rifling barely marks jacket ) some prefer more free leade,i generally start where the rifling just barely doesnt touch the soot,if i have a fairly accurate load i load a few of each setting and fire for group size when i have one i like i make a gage ( yes another one ) i use suspect brass for the gages and never prime them but the oal gage sure simplifies and makes it easy and repeatable ! while sooting the bullet is economical i have to debate that "easier part" lolz with lots of time and little funds it does work but trial and error is what it takes to find that sweet spot for a particular barrel ( but that calls for something we all enjoy -more shooting !)and yes barrels are just like women -no two are the same .
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| Posted: Sun Jul 12th, 2009 11:42 AM |
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DesertMarine
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I would suggest the Hornady OAL gage or the Sinclair OAL gage. They both run around $35. I use the Hornady OAL gage. Never could get the smoke method to work for me, though a lot of people get good results. Drawback to the Hornady method is that you have to get cases from Hornady for each caliber, unless you can make your own, not hard but not really worth the time and effort.
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| Posted: Sun Jul 12th, 2009 08:19 PM |
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shootinrandy
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Hey Desert Marine, I purchased the Hornady OAL gauge and seem to be having trouble or I'm not doing something right . Can you help?
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| Posted: Sun Jul 12th, 2009 10:37 PM |
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DesertMarine
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They do take some getting used to. What I do is, when I put the gage in the chamber, I make sure the bullet in no way touches the lands, normally the bullet is way in the case. I push the gage in the chamber until the case is fully seated in the chamber. I gently push the rod in to push the bullet to the lands. If you push the rod in fast or hard, you will probably get inconsisent readings. When the bullet touches the lands, gently tighten the screw that keeps the rod in place. Pull out the gage, the bullet might stick to the lands, that's ok, push it out with cleaning rod. Insert the bullet back in the case and measure. At first, I would take up to 15 readings to see what I was doing. That helped me figure out what procedure gave me the best and consistent results. Sometimes if you overtighten the rod retaining screw, that might cause a change in the seating and give erratic results. Don't get frustrated or give up. The more you use it the better and get more consistent results. What you want to get is consistent readings. In time, you'll know when you are doing it right.
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| Posted: Mon Jul 13th, 2009 02:36 AM |
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shootinrandy
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Thanks for the reply. I'm using the gauge as you describe. I'm loading 300 win mag for a Savage. Using the "special" hornady case and the 178grn Amax bullet. Also I'm using the comparator for measuring length. My problem is that when I "just" barely make contact with the lands, the bullet is barely seated in the neck of the case. Also there is a difference of approx. .250" between the factory load and my measurement. To me that seems excessive?
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| Posted: Mon Jul 13th, 2009 04:09 AM |
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fryboy
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shootinrandy wrote:
Thanks for the reply. I'm using the gauge as you describe. I'm loading 300 win mag for a Savage. Using the "special" hornady case and the 178grn Amax bullet. Also I'm using the comparator for measuring length. My problem is that when I "just" barely make contact with the lands, the bullet is barely seated in the neck of the case. Also there is a difference of approx. .250" between the factory load and my measurement. To me that seems excessive?
hola randy , what u describe sounds like one of my 243's with 55 bt bt's... sometimes we are limited by magizine length sometimes by freebore ,that sounds like what ur chamber has a 1/4" doesnt sound as excessive as .250 altho it's the same thing lolz ,the amax's have a very hi b.c. and often a round nose or even a plain base spitzer will touch the lands long before a super pointy point boat tail will,u say barely in the case ....if in the case enough to cycle and not fallout and fits thru the mag it should work ( on a positive side it allows more room for powder :P ) keep in mind that every barrel will show a preference for seating depth as does every reloader ,some barrels i have have so much freebore that i cant get close to to the lands others are fairly tite and they all react differently my rule of thumb is boat tails i try to get set to just off the lands others mite prefer a slight crush fit ( i often do that when fire forming )once i find a fairly accurate ( and safe ) load i then play with my seating depths and different primers etc tryin to fine tune it even better, keep good notes and u can look back at ur results and see if perhaps ur headin the right way or need to switch tatics ( components)the hardcore match guys even measure and sort by the bearing surface of the bullet ( using the comparator ) alot depends on what u want to do with the gun and ur expectations for it ....
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| Posted: Mon Jul 13th, 2009 04:34 PM |
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DesertMarine
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Adding to what Fryboy said. The 300 Win Mag has a very short neck. Need to make sure that you have enough bullet into the neck for proper neck tension. That sometimes forces you to back off the lands more that what you want and work from there. Most times the .250 difference between your load and what the book says is max OAL is and can be different. As long as you have proper neck tension on the bullet, the cartridge fits in the magazine and you have no pressure problems, you should be ok, just procede carefully.
On my evil black gun, when loading long heavy bullets, the loaded round will not fit in the magazine, so have to load single shot. That works. Also loading the older Barnes X bullets in bolt gun, 300 Win Mag, could not use the magazine but it worked. The question arises, do you want to load single shot or want/need to use magazine, go from there.
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| Posted: Tue Jul 14th, 2009 10:01 AM |
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DKA
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Bought my OAL Gauge when it was Stoney Point but Hornady bought it out and all Hornady Modified Cases that I have bought since the changover has worked great. Sometimes we cannot do as we please with a round, if the bullet does not seat deep enough in the case to keep proper tension on the base of the bullet. Some bullets are longer than others and by backing off the lands more than we want too, proves better accuracy. Most of the OAL is trial and error.
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| Posted: Mon Jul 20th, 2009 09:14 PM |
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KY Hunter
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The method I was shown several years ago by a competitive centerfire reloader is simple but effective. This is what I have used now for years myself with good success:
1. Take a fired empty cartridge and drill out the primer pocket to a size that will allow a small rod( example stiff coat-hanger ) to be inserted. ( Mark this cartridge so you never shoot it again)
2. Neck size the cartridge just enough to hold the bullet somewhat firmly, but not too tight so you cannot pull it out with a little force or pressure, yet tight enough so it will stay in the cartridge when removed from the gun..
3. Insert the bullet into the case with your die, but leave it very long.
4. Make sure the gun is unloaded.
5. Put this dummy cartridge in the chamber and close it up as if it is ready to be fired.
6. Open the bolt or action and measure the OAL of the bullet and cartridge combination. The chamber should have pushed the bullet into the case at its maximum OAL.
7. Most likely you will see where the lands scuffed the bullet. ( Sometimes you may need to polish or take fine steal wool to the bullet so you can see the marks of the lands - the smoke should also do the same thing )
8. Use the bigger opening in the primer pocket to now take the rod and poke the bullet completely back out or to the point is is way too long again.
9. Repeat the above steps many times to confirm the OAL of the cartridge with this specific bullet. You should get pretty consistent readings with calipars.
Know different bullets will have different OAL legnths.
There are many thoughts concerning if the bullet should or should not touch the lands, but this simple method will let you know the OAL with that specific bullet.
Again, never reload and fire this brass - mark it and save it in a storage box.
Hope this helps. If something doesn't seem right - stop and question it.
Good luck
KY Hunter
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