| Posted: Sat Sep 12th, 2009 04:35 PM |
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hunts4food
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OK fellers first time poster here. My history with reloading is about 10 years ago loading alot of pistol stuff then giving it up due to not having time and now starting again but for rifles. 30-06 and 7mm08 to be excact. I just bought a new Lee Challenger Breech Lock kit with Lee Pacesetter dies. I de-capped and sized the 7mm08 with no trouble but after about 5 30-06 I had one stick and ripped the rim off. I took the de-cap lock nut off and drove the case through with the de-cap rod thingy and all was well for another 15 or so when another stuck. I tried removing it the same way and bent the crap out of the de-cap rod. I am hoping I can order a new rod and not have to buy a new die. I lubed the casings with the Lee lube as per the instructions so I don't understand them getting stuck. The ones that are sticking are very hard to press into the die and then get stuck. Is it something I am doing or not doing?  These are Remington brass that I bought as new loaded ammo so I guess you would say they are once fired.
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| Posted: Sat Sep 12th, 2009 06:05 PM |
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Bigdog57
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RCBS (and probably the other makers) make a 'stuck case remover' tool, that you should use instead of the decapper rod.
Don't know why the cases would have stuck, if you had them lubed. I have used the Lee lube with no problems. I usually use Hornady's One-Shot spray lube for normal sizer use, but prefer the Lee or Unique Case Lube for reforming one caliber to another - that takes more force than basic loading. Do not use lube ont he outside of the neck and shoulder. Do use lube inside the case mouth. Not lubing here can make the effort much greater!
Maybe double-check the sizer die adjustment?
Last edited on Sat Sep 12th, 2009 06:05 PM by Bigdog57
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| Posted: Sat Sep 12th, 2009 07:11 PM |
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StretchNM
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I agree with BigDog: Make sure the entire case is lubed (except shoulder) to include inside the case mouth. After a few lubings, the mouth sizing mandrel will be sufficiently lubed and you can use less inside the mouth (but still put some in there).
Make sure the die is adjusted correctly AND that the top end of the decap pin is about flush with the top of the collet nut. I've never used the Pacesetter dies, so I can't comment too much on them. Lee will send another decapping mandrel.
HuntsForFood, it might help to understand what is happening when full-sizing...
- As the ram is raised, the sizing mandrel (decap rod) goes down inside the case, past the neck area;
- At this point, the die is squeezing the case body into the preset shape of the die, bringing it within tolerances;
- Also, at this point, the die is squeezing the neck smaller than tolerances;
- As the ram is lowered, the sizing mandrel (that was down below the case neck) is being pulled up through the neck which (remember?) was sized smaller than the mandrel;
THis last step is your greatest friction point and where the press is exerting the most force on the case and rim: the mandrel is now expanding the neck to .307 (30-06), which is the diameter of your mandrel. It's pulling upward with a great deal of force, so if there is not enough lube on the mandrel, well..........
I've had this happen a few times but normally the decap pin pulls loose of the collet. THen, you just loosen the collet nut, slowly rasie the ram, guiding the decap pin into the collet, tighten it back up, and try again.
When I'm full-length sizing, I always add a little extra lube inside the case mouth for the first several cases. This makes sure the mandrel is well lubricated. Then, you can ease off just putting a tiny amount into each case mouth.
ON EDIT: One more thing Huntsforfood: Are you cleaning the inside of the neck before resizing? This could be PART of the problem...maybe. Remember there's a thin film of carbon in there after firing. I always use a .30 cal brush on a short cleaning rod and give it 3 passes on all my fired cases before full-length or neck sizing. In fact, I decap mine on a $10 Lee decapper die. Then I brush the case neck, ream the primer pockets, and tumble (IF I'm going to neck size only). If I'm going to full-length size, I save the tumbling for after the sizing, BUT! I blow out the cases with compressed air after cleaning the neck and primer pocket. I don;t want any carbon dust mixing with the case lube and causing friction against the sizing mandrel.
Last edited on Sat Sep 12th, 2009 07:19 PM by StretchNM
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| Posted: Sat Sep 12th, 2009 08:42 PM |
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OldManMontgomery
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Hello H4F,
I've stuck several too many rifle cases in sizing dies. As far as I have ever been able to tell, it's from lack of lubrication. I know you said you lubricated according to directions and I'm not questioning that; but I thought I lubricated the ones I stuck properly as well.
I've used Lee lube in the past. I normally use the Dillon spray on lube these days and I don't remember why I switched. The spray on stuff is easier, for one thing. I can't remember if the Lee stuff was what I was using when I stuck the cases I stuck. A bottle of the Dillon stuff doesn't cost all that much to find out.
Big Dog said do not put lube on the neck or shoulder. That is normally correct. Excess lube on the should will cause 'dents' from the lube being caught and actually deforming the shoulder of the case. It's odd looking, but normally won't damage anything. If this stuck thing continues, I'd suggest lubing that area at least slightly and see if that helps.
By all means use a bit of lube on the inside of the case mouth. Cleaning it as Stretch suggests usually helps and in any event cannot hurt.
Another idea is to back the sizing die off a couple turns to accomplish a 'half' or 'three-quarter' length sizing instead of a full length sizing. That will hold the bullet in place well and allow the loaded round to chamber normally, but reduces the strain on all the process.
Another odd possibility is that of a deformation or burr in the interior of the sizing die itself. Truthfully, this is so rare as to be non-existant, but it won't hurt to look. A gouge or burr can hang up the case and hold it in place. Do any of your stuck cases show signs of scratches or marks - other than that ripped off rim thing?
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| Posted: Sat Sep 12th, 2009 08:55 PM |
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Don Fischer
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Haven't stuck a case in a lot of years but I do have the stuck case remover. I have bee using Hornady One Shot a long time now. After spraying the cases and befor sizing them, I spray the inside of the die.
Cases get stuck because of lack of lube.
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| Posted: Sat Sep 12th, 2009 09:48 PM |
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Charley
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As the others have said, probably lube related. I've used a lot of lubes, including wire pulling lube for light duty stuff, but for serious sizing, get some Imperial Case Sizing Wax. Best lube I've ever used, and a 2 oz can will last a looooong time.
I use it for case forming more than straight sizing, but the stuff flat works.http://www.midwayusa.com/Search/#imperial%20sizing%20wax____-_1-2-4_8-16-32
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| Posted: Sat Sep 12th, 2009 10:14 PM |
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varmintcaller
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I agre with Charley, 100%
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| Posted: Sat Sep 12th, 2009 11:19 PM |
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40twist
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 Yep!!! Imperial for the win!!!
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| Posted: Sun Sep 13th, 2009 12:49 AM |
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Rockydog
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Hunts4food, Check Here for more discussion and ideas. RD
http://www.handloadersbench.com/forum12/8233.html
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| Posted: Sun Sep 13th, 2009 01:30 AM |
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hunts4food
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OK guys I appreciate all the responses. First thing I did not clean inside the cases. As mentioned this may be my problem. I went this evening and bought some RCBS brushes just for this. Second I did lube the neck inside and out but not the shoulder. Most of the cases go in and out without too much resistance but some require two hands to run the ram up and back down. I will order a new de-capper rod from Lee on monday, probably order 2 just in case. I will try more lube and if the problem persist I will order new dies. If that don't fix it I will be back here looking for more help. Thanks again.
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| Posted: Sun Sep 13th, 2009 02:01 AM |
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OldManMontgomery
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Glad it's working.
I did forget to mention but you've figured it out; get extra decapping rods or pins, depending on your brand of dies. I think it's Midway and no doubt some others that will sell RCBS decap pins by the 10 pack.
As time goes by, you'll realize this applies to other stuff too; little springs, primer holder thingies and all the little doodads that somehow get caught between hammer and anvil somewhere in the process.
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| Posted: Sun Sep 13th, 2009 11:43 AM |
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Timberwolf
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I've been using Lee Case Lube for over 25 years and had 1 stuck case in that time and it was MY fault not enough lube.
I wear surgical gloves when lubing.
I found that the oil based lubes were way too messy.
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| Posted: Sun Sep 13th, 2009 11:44 PM |
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Busted
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Cases get stuck for one reason; too little lube in the right place.
Most of us seem to start out thinking it's more important to lube the neck and upper body. That's wrong. Only lightly lube the neck and upper body,but make sure you cover the lower body well because that's where they get stuck.
Lee's white lube in a "toothpaste tube" is a soap, it's really quite good too.
The press lever resistance is your only warning, ignore it and the case is VERY likely to be stuck.
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| Posted: Mon Sep 14th, 2009 12:19 AM |
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StretchNM
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I agree, lube correctly. There may or may not be "better" lube than Lee's lube (I've yet to have a problem with it), but it almost certainly is not the problem here. The problem is most likely in the method.
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| Posted: Thu Sep 24th, 2009 04:20 PM |
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ryalred
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I agree with what others have said. If you lube properly you shouldn't get stuck cases, unless the inside of the die is really scratched up.
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| Posted: Thu Sep 24th, 2009 08:45 PM |
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Charley
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Richard Lee says his lube is a wax, often used for draw forming metal.
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| Posted: Thu Sep 24th, 2009 09:15 PM |
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hunts4food
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Thanks everyone. It was a lube issue. I have loaded several since and when one seems too tight I put more lube on it, works fine then.
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| Posted: Thu Sep 24th, 2009 11:20 PM |
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Bigdog57
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Glad it was an easy fix!
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