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Paul Tummers
HB Life Member
| Joined: | 18 June 2007 |
| Location: | Berg En Terblijt, Netherlands |
| Posts: | 332 |
| Photo: | | | Are you a handloader?: | Yes | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | rifle |
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Posted: 20 February 2008 08:23 AM |
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I am thinking about starting to reload my own shotshells due to the enormous amount of money one has to pay for a round loaded with non-steel/ non lead shot.
Use of lead shot is completely banned over here and my shotguns are good guns like the Browning B25, Merkel 203, thus no steel proof and with fixed chokes from which I do not want to part.
I would like to hear about your experiences with Moly-shot and bismuth, and of course tips for the tools and components needed.
It will be for 12, 16 and 20/70 and the est.number of rounds I shoot in a year will not exeed 500.
I love really good equipment, do use it for reloading for my rifles, but Thinking about the investment and the amount of cartidges I shoot, my equipment has just to be of decent, relyable quality and quick caliber change is of course an advantage, I rather invest in quality than in luxury and comfort.
I was thinking of loads for 32 grams of no 4 and 6 shot in my cal.12, 30 grams for my 16 and 26 grams for my 20 gauge.
They are hunting loads, but a little speed to compensate for the loss of weight is OK of course.
Hope to hear from you soon!
Paul Tummers.
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There almost always is a way to do things better, more often than not by simplifying.
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.45 COLT
HB Life Member
| Joined: | 7 February 2005 |
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| Posts: | 109 |
| Photo: | | | Are you a handloader?: | Yes | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | I load everything! |
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Posted: 21 February 2008 02:13 PM |
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If I was setting up to do 500 rounds a year, I'd get me a MEC Sizemaster with conversion dies for the 3 Gauges. The press is kind of a PITA to change back and forth from one Gauge to another, but for your intended volume it wouldn't make good sense to buy three presses.
Bismuth shot has become almost impossible to get. The place that produced it closed due to the owner's death and so far has not reopened. Another company advertises, but so far hasn't delivered any shot. The only problem that I know of with Bismuth (when you can get it) is that it fractures. Hodgdon claims it isn't a problem, but when my pattern board shows 25% more holes than there was pellets in the load, fracturing is real. Buffer seems to pretty much cure that problem.
By "Moly shot", do you mean the Tungsten Matrix shot that Kent uses? It isn't available in the United States so I haven't ever loaded it. I understand it's available in Britain. The loaded shells are sold here, but no components.
SC
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sako06
addicted handloader
| Joined: | 22 July 2007 |
| Location: | California USA |
| Posts: | 493 |
| Photo: | | | Are you a handloader?: | Yes | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | I load everything! |
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Posted: 25 February 2008 04:30 PM |
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| I load reclaimed lead shot mined from shotgun fields with different sizes of shot but I can still pulverize clays .Some of my pot shooting loads had 5's & 6's mixed together or 6's & 7 1/2's. When steel shot first came on the mkt there were warnings about using shotgun barrels with fixed chokes.I wouldn't shoot steel shot thru your shotguns instead I'b buy a Remington 870 with Rem Chokes designed for steel shot. Last edited on 25 February 2008 04:47 PM by sako06
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Paul Tummers
HB Life Member
| Joined: | 18 June 2007 |
| Location: | Berg En Terblijt, Netherlands |
| Posts: | 332 |
| Photo: | | | Are you a handloader?: | Yes | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | rifle |
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Posted: 26 February 2008 12:32 AM |
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sako06 schreef: I load reclaimed lead shot mined from shotgun fields with different sizes of shot but I can still pulverize clays .Some of my pot shooting loads had 5's & 6's mixed together or 6's & 7 1/2's. When steel shot first came on the mkt there were warnings about using shotgun barrels with fixed chokes.I wouldn't shoot steel shot thru your shotguns instead I'b buy a Remington 870 with Rem Chokes designed for steel shot.
It is really good to hear, there still are some places on this earth, were somebody can do just as he pleases!
Another gun is out of the question due to the 6-gun limit we have over here.
I still think about rolling my own shotgun ammo, because 1 round of this tungsten-matrix stuff costs over $2!!
I'll try to find a source for the shot first, the rest will have to wait until I located a dealer.
____________________
There almost always is a way to do things better, more often than not by simplifying.
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Rockydog
addicted handloader
| Joined: | 26 July 2005 |
| Location: | Wisconsin USA |
| Posts: | 440 |
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Posted: 26 February 2008 02:06 AM |
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| Paul, Check out the Ballistic Products website for ideas on loading non toxic shot. The MEC Sizemaster or even a 600JR is the way to go for the amount of rounds you want to load. MEC makes a loader specifically for steel shot also. The biggest thing in shotshell reloading is to follow component recipes exactly. Due to the burn rate of powders and the pressure curves there is very little room for experimentation like we can do with rifles. I load for 12 and 16 guage and have loaded as many as 3000 rounds in one year. In fact one year I loaded 2000+ rounds on a 600JR. I got so I could do about 75-100 rounds an hour with it. RD
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"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~ Thomas Jefferson ~
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Paul Tummers
HB Life Member
| Joined: | 18 June 2007 |
| Location: | Berg En Terblijt, Netherlands |
| Posts: | 332 |
| Photo: | | | Are you a handloader?: | Yes | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | rifle |
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Posted: 26 February 2008 07:06 AM |
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Rockydog schreef: Paul, Check out the Ballistic Products website for ideas on loading non toxic shot. The MEC Sizemaster or even a 600JR is the way to go for the amount of rounds you want to load. MEC makes a loader specifically for steel shot also. The biggest thing in shotshell reloading is to follow component recipes exactly. Due to the burn rate of powders and the pressure curves there is very little room for experimentation like we can do with rifles. I load for 12 and 16 guage and have loaded as many as 3000 rounds in one year. In fact one year I loaded 2000+ rounds on a 600JR. I got so I could do about 75-100 rounds an hour with it. RD
Thank you, I certainly will do!
Problem will be to find a source for the exact components listed there, because reloading is not done so much over here as in the US,and shotgun reloading actually is totally absent, was not necessary when we were allowed to shoot lead shot.
Now lead shot is totally abandoned for hunting purpose, my guns are non-steel proof, and paying over $2 for one single round of non lead/steel ammo is too much of the good thing for me.
____________________
There almost always is a way to do things better, more often than not by simplifying.
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sako06
addicted handloader
| Joined: | 22 July 2007 |
| Location: | California USA |
| Posts: | 493 |
| Photo: | | | Are you a handloader?: | Yes | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | I load everything! |
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Posted: 26 February 2008 05:42 PM |
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| There are gunsmiths who can convert older shotgun barrels to use interchangeable choke tubes then you can continue using yours with steel,etc. Do a google search for gunsmiths who can convert fixed choke shotgun barrels for removeable choke tubes.The irony of this new stance on the evils of lead is that all metals have some lead in them ie copper,steel,etc. Here's a company in Turkey that does choke installation http://www.zaferint.com/contact.htm Last edited on 26 February 2008 06:30 PM by sako06
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Paul Tummers
HB Life Member
| Joined: | 18 June 2007 |
| Location: | Berg En Terblijt, Netherlands |
| Posts: | 332 |
| Photo: | | | Are you a handloader?: | Yes | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | rifle |
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Posted: 27 February 2008 12:44 AM |
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It is not for the chokes, I do not want to use steel shot, but because of the pressure wich goes along with shooting steel shot, almost twice as much as the proof charges.
all my shotguns are open-choked-impr.cyl/quarter, quarter/half etc ,with the exeption of a 20 gauge side by side Lebeau Bruxelles de luxe, which is full/full choked.
This gun, just as my Browning B25, has the barrels flattened were they touch each other at the muzzle area, thus making a narrower bundle.
It is nice, but these barrels cannot be altered to accomodate screw-in chokes.
____________________
There almost always is a way to do things better, more often than not by simplifying.
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sako06
addicted handloader
| Joined: | 22 July 2007 |
| Location: | California USA |
| Posts: | 493 |
| Photo: | | | Are you a handloader?: | Yes | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | I load everything! |
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Posted: 28 February 2008 12:49 AM |
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| Marlin has LC Smith sxs & o/u screw in choke shotguns in 410,28g,20g,12g http://www.marlinfirearms.com
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.45 COLT
HB Life Member
| Joined: | 7 February 2005 |
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Posted: 28 February 2008 01:58 PM |
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Paul Tummers wrote: It is not for the chokes, I do not want to use steel shot, but because of the pressure wich goes along with shooting steel shot, almost twice as much as the proof charges.
Maybe you could clear something up for me? (I’m assuming you’re talking about English Proof). I’ve been doing a little research in proofing of shotguns, and, as near as I can make out, your CIP proof house only rates the 12 Gauge 2 ¾” for an average working pressure of 587 BAR (8,513 PSI), using a Proof Load of 939 BAR (13,620)PSI. Is that correct? That seems a little light. SAAMI rates the same gun for an average pressure of 792 BAR (11,500 PSI) using a Minimum Proof Load of 1,229 BAR (17,825 PSI) and a Maximum Proof Load of 1,348 BAR (19,550 PSI).
Not to say that I like high pressure loads - I don't. They can beat up a shotgun.
DC
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Paul Tummers
HB Life Member
| Joined: | 18 June 2007 |
| Location: | Berg En Terblijt, Netherlands |
| Posts: | 332 |
| Photo: | | | Are you a handloader?: | Yes | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | rifle |
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Posted: 28 February 2008 02:17 PM |
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You are right!
I made the mistake, meant to say twice the working pressure;
Some Steelshot cartridges do develop a pressure in the 1100 Bar aria.
I know, Merkel and Browning o/u shotguns are built quite strong, but these pressures are a little bit too much of the good thing to put on them on and on I think.
Paul.
____________________
There almost always is a way to do things better, more often than not by simplifying.
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.45 COLT
HB Life Member
| Joined: | 7 February 2005 |
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| Posts: | 109 |
| Photo: | | | Are you a handloader?: | Yes | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | I load everything! |
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Posted: 29 February 2008 04:17 AM |
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I made a mistake on my American Proof Load figres. Don't know what I was thinking about, but..................
12 Gauge 2 3/4" Working Pressure is 793 BAR (11,500 PSI)
Minimum Proof Load is 1,030 BAR (12,950 PSI)
Maximum Proof Load is 1,229 BAR (17,825 PSI)
DC
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.45 COLT
HB Life Member
| Joined: | 7 February 2005 |
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| Posts: | 109 |
| Photo: | | | Are you a handloader?: | Yes | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | I load everything! |
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Posted: 1 March 2008 04:25 AM |
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.45 COLT wrote: I made a mistake on my American Proof Load figres. Don't know what I was thinking about, but..................
12 Gauge 2 3/4" Working Pressure is 793 BAR (11,500 PSI)
Minimum Proof Load is 1,030 BAR (12,950 PSI)
Maximum Proof Load is 1,229 BAR (17,825 PSI)
DC
Scratch that. If anybody cares, the original was right. Don't know what I was thinking about,
DC
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