| Posted: Thu Aug 20th, 2009 11:33 PM |
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21st Post |
KB88
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He couldn't possibly mean grams
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| Posted: Fri Aug 21st, 2009 12:47 AM |
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| Posted: Fri Aug 21st, 2009 01:29 AM |
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Novashooter
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There is no way. a slug generating 14000 psi would at best get 3200 foot pounds of energy. 12000 psi is the limit for 3" guns and 14000 psi is what they will hold before completely cracking. You will be lucky to find a load that will generate 2800 fpe. Don't do it, I'm not sure who "ed" is but he definitely doesn't know what he is talking about. He never states what wad to use and "shotgun primers" is not detailed. I would estimate that load with 150 grains reloader 17, no wad (just slug), a win 209 primer, and rem 3" hulls to get about 40000 psi. With a hull it might get 50000 psi and 2000 fps. Anyway there is now way for a scattergun to blast these suckers out without tearing half your face off.
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| Posted: Fri Aug 21st, 2009 01:34 AM |
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Novashooter
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buy an .800 nitro express. It is prabably cheaper than the medical bill if you shoot those retard loads. The .800 probably kicks less too with more velocity and power.
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| Posted: Fri Aug 21st, 2009 01:42 AM |
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Novashooter
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I dont know. I have seen a lot of those "shotguns from hell". I just dont know what to make of them. There is no way, ever that you can get a 3 1/2" slug at 3000 fps and not blow up, let alone extract. Seeing people that do that to shotguns makes me want to swear and punch them in the face.
THERE IS NO WAY TO GET A REGULAR 12 GAUGE TO OVER 2500 FPS!!!Last edited on Fri Aug 21st, 2009 01:44 AM by Novashooter
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| Posted: Fri Aug 21st, 2009 03:01 AM |
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26th Post |
Rockydog
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Nova, Relax man! Your gonna have amelt down here. If you read Ed's "12 gauge from hell" threads by going to the link I posted in the second post of this thread you'll see that these are not REGULAR 12 GUAGE shotguns. Ed knows what he's doing. He's testing these with chronys and strain gauges and carefully mating wads and slugs etc. Would I recommend anyone try what he's doing? Probably not but he's taken a reasoned approach and seems to know what he's up to. Some of these guns have sleeved barrels and chambers. Some actions are handbuilt. Some slugs are hand turned to exacting tolerences. I don't see why modifying a shotgun into a high performance tool makes you want to punch someone in the face. Do you feel that way about choppers or street rods too? RD
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| Posted: Fri Aug 21st, 2009 03:19 AM |
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.45 COLT
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Ed has played with the 12 Gauge From Hell for years. He has also done extensive testing of Dixie Slugs' Terminator. He pretty much knows what he's doing. The fogures surprise me, but, unless there is a typo, I would believe them.
If somebody wants to try something like that, I'd suggest first confirming his figures, then finding out exactly what gun he is using. Using a rifle powder for a shotgun is not exactly new, but is not real common. Might just work fine.
I'd hate to shoot that out of my SS NEF.
DC
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| Posted: Fri Aug 21st, 2009 03:52 AM |
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KB88
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I'd be interested in testing this as long as it could be done safely. How could that Re17 keep pressures at a safe level?
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| Posted: Fri Aug 21st, 2009 04:09 AM |
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Novashooter
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No only guns and dogs. I hate when girls dress those little ones. No doubt they are so mean.
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| Posted: Fri Aug 21st, 2009 04:24 AM |
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.45 COLT
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KB88 wrote: I'd be interested in testing this as long as it could be done safely. How could that Re17 keep pressures at a safe level?
I would first ask Ed what kind of pressure he's seeing. SAAMI Max for a 3" 12 Gauge is 11,500 PSI. He might well be using a specialized gun, I don't know. If he's using the Terminator, he's probably using a rifled barrel. His 12 Gauge From Hell was built on a Savage rifle action.
DC
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| Posted: Fri Aug 21st, 2009 04:52 AM |
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31st Post |
KB88
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.45 Colt,
Out of curiosity, do you know how strong the Beretta double barrel actions are?
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| Posted: Fri Aug 21st, 2009 05:13 AM |
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.45 COLT
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About all I can say about that is to re-state: SAAMI Max working pressure for a 2 3/4" and 3" 12 Gauge is 11,500 PSI. That means the gun should proof at 19,550 PSI - once. The proof pressure should never be used as a reference for anything.
In general, a break-action is not as strong as a pump or bolt, but none of them should be subjected to pressures over SAAMI. Ever.
Don't use that Re17 load without more information.
If you do get something more, I'd certainly be interested in knowing what pressure that load runs.
DC
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| Posted: Fri Aug 21st, 2009 05:17 AM |
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KB88
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Will do, Can an action be built stronger?
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| Posted: Fri Aug 21st, 2009 05:33 AM |
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.45 COLT
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Well, you could probably rig up something so the action wouldn't open on firing, but then your chamber might burst. Don't try. Body parts are sometimes replaceable but the new parts often aren't as good as the original. And it HURTS. I had a single shot open on firing once. Don't know what happened, but I was never real comfortable with that gun again. The 12 Gauge From Hell was built on a rifle action.
DC
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| Posted: Fri Aug 21st, 2009 09:16 AM |
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35th Post |
.45 COLT
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.45 COLT wrote: That means the gun should proof at 19,550 PSI
DC
Correction: That should be 19,500 PSI.
Doesn't make much difference but I don't like to see inaccuracies posted - especially by me.  
DC
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| Posted: Fri Aug 21st, 2009 01:09 PM |
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swampshooter
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KB88 wrote: This is the email he sent me (direct quotation):
You can get over 4000 ft lbs 3" plastic cases
using rifle powders that shot gun primers will
fire off reliably. They are VV110, IMR4759,
IMR4227, and the new RE17. Re17 is the best
and with 600 gr hardened full bore slugs and
150 gr of RE17 you can get 1800 fps for
over 4300 ft lbs energy. For 3" plastic cases
you can get new real cheap as well as once fired
3.5" cheaper yet, and cut them off to 3".
And get a roll crimper for drill press and a
MEC Super Sizer to make cases better than they
com from the factory.Good hunting, Ed
What pressures do these loads develop. They don't sound like something I want to shoot in my SX-3.
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| Posted: Fri Aug 21st, 2009 01:32 PM |
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.45 COLT
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I just e-mailed Ed to get some clarification as to what gun he's using/what the pressure is. I'm thinking it's for the 12 Gauge rifle he's built.
DC
Last edited on Fri Aug 21st, 2009 01:33 PM by .45 COLT
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| Posted: Fri Aug 21st, 2009 07:20 PM |
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Novashooter
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Novashooter wrote: I dont know. I have seen a lot of those "shotguns from hell". I just dont know what to make of them. There is no way, ever that you can get a 3 1/2" slug at 3000 fps and not blow up, let alone extract. Seeing people that do that to shotguns makes me want to swear and punch them in the face.
THERE IS NO WAY TO GET A REGULAR 12 GAUGE TO OVER 2500 FPS!!!
Read it. Do not use these loads in a regualar 12 gauge. SX3 is no exeption. These prabably get way over 40000 psi for chamber pressure.
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| Posted: Fri Aug 21st, 2009 07:45 PM |
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39th Post |
hubel458
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Ed Hubel here-Nice site you have.The loads I mentioned are
heavy barreled NEFs Ultras and Savage with heavy barrel added.
All plastic case loads, we do still have seals and wads,
in normal amounts in regular modern slug barrels that are
.92" muzzle diameter. The NEF Ultra is 1.070 muzzle dia.
My Savage is 1.1". So they need less wads and seals.
With seals wads and slugs the 3"
plastic cases holds 115gr of RE17 and the 3.5" case holds
150gr. Tested 600gr in a 24' barrel 115gr in 3" case about
1800 fps. Same slug in 3.5" case,more powder more velocity.
These loads and others we developed with IMR 4227,4759,
tested at at 14,700 psi. Which is what REM Buckhammer slugs
from factory run a max. If you have agun with barrel
smaller at the muzzle than .92" you cut back some as the
purpose of loading like this is to get more pressure
with slower than shotgun powders to get extra velocity,
and extra pressure down the barrel means a heavier bareel
is proper, tather than old thin ones.Ed Hubel
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| Posted: Fri Aug 21st, 2009 09:10 PM |
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hubel458
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Some more info- You can get lighter slugs over 2500
in 12ga 3.5" cases in heavy barreled guns.By lighter
I mean 1 oz. In long brass cases, heavy barreled guns you
easily get over 2500 with larger amounts of slower powder.
But yet the slower powder just has magnum shotgun pressures,
due to the large bore size relative to the ammount of
powder. And due to the large diameter of the cases most
all rifle powders do not ignite good in 12ga cases,with
shotgun primers, or large rifle primes used in some
brass cases. but we did find 4 cannister rifle and one
surplus rifle powders that do ignite.They are IMR4227-
IMR4759-VV110- RE17, in cannister and 7383 surplus.
The RE17 is the best of them. In fact in a 3" chamber
12 ga with 24" rifled barrel I have here, factory REM 3"
Buckhammer slugs expand the basecup of the plastic cases
about .010" on firing, but my RE17 loads only half of that.
This is with both about 600gr slugs.But I have over
300 fps more. And in my NEF long(36") heavy barreled
Ultra I get 100fps more at least.
A fella in MN and BPI have gotten lighter slugs in sabots,
over 2500 with slowest shotgun powder in
larger amounts than traditional fast shotgun
powder loads. So have I.
I am sorry I may have caused some misunderstanding.
Here is a picture of my Savage 12GA FH heavy gun.
This one is chamberf or the 3.85" long brass case we
make from bmg brass, It fires shorter plastic cases also.
Second picture is heavy NEF and an Encore heavy
barrel gun we tested.Both 3.5" chambers and will shoot
3.5" brass cases as well as 2.75', 3", 3.5" plastic.
You can see brass cases partly in the chambers.Ed
Last edited on Fri Aug 21st, 2009 09:23 PM by hubel458
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