| Posted: Fri Sep 18th, 2009 07:06 AM |
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81st Post |
hubel458
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They use fast shotgun powders because --
1) They are easiest to ignite in large diameter cases.
We've found only 5 rifle powders that ignite good
in 12ga, 10ga, and larger diameter cases.
2) The pressure drops off fast due to smaller amounts
with the fast burn, thus keeping pressures lower
down the thin barrels, so they won't split.
3) And using smaller amounts saves a couple pennies
per load, while still getting the speed they want,
regular shot gun speeds.
Now when they came out with 3.5" cases and stronger
mag and slug loads they had to develope slower shotgun
powders to be able to use more. See when you try to
up the velocities by increasing the amounts of fast shotgun
powder, the pressures skyrocket, past a certain load
level.EdLast edited on Fri Sep 18th, 2009 07:20 AM by hubel458
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| Posted: Fri Sep 18th, 2009 03:55 PM |
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82nd Post |
hubel458
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Little more info about shotguns. The tradition has
been to make the guns light, and to do that use
barrels with thin muzzles. Thus the reason
number two I showed above.
More info on powders. The slower powders we use in these loads
don't neccessarily give less peak pressure, they just gets to the
peak pressure slower but they have more overall average pressure
the full length of their burn time in the barrel. And the time that
it takes to get to the peak pressure is a great a factor on the
basecup expansion as the psi of the peak pressure. A load of
RE17 that gets to a peak pressure of 15,000 psi in a certain time,
won't expand basecup as much as a fast shotgun powder that
gets to 10,000 psi in third of the time.And the real fast shotgun powders
can't be jumped up much above 12,000 psi as they then start
giving a huge pressure rise. Slower shotgun powders like Alliant
Steel can be worked higher to 15,000 psi and be controlled..EdLast edited on Fri Sep 18th, 2009 04:32 PM by hubel458
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| Posted: Wed Sep 23rd, 2009 09:09 PM |
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83rd Post |
hubel458
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Here is gun that could be called a 32GA FH.
It is my 499HE in a NEF.Sometimes you develop a
cartridge just for a certain bunch of guns, those
being all the underwhelming 500 S&W out there in
NEFs. As well as shops always have these bullets
in supply, much more than other big bore bullets.
So I had a long case here that I made years ago
as a long .510" cal, and I change the shape a little
to fit all of the .500" cal bullets out there.
Following loads easy on brass, I didn't have to
full length resize the case, only top 1/4 of case that
expanded a little. 325gr at 2600, 500gr at 2150.
In my NEF I can get both weight bullets 300 fps faster,
still extract very easy. With higher velocities they
resize easy, And this case gets these great velocities
at 50-60% of the pressure as the original case in NEF.
I got finish 499HE reamer made by Manson.. Just run it
in NEF 500 chamber and you got a blaster. And add
a little weight and thick pad to the gun. I have
a barrel ring to hold forearm along with original
bolt, as I added weight there as well as the butt. Ed
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hubel458
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Finally an 870 with longer 1" muzzle barrel. Barrel
is heavier than most all add on pump gun barrels,
and it is 25.5" long, Something that would really get
it on with the slower powder loads we have.
Rifled barrel is solid mount in receiver, scoperail solid mount.
It is the REM 870 Super Slug Gun.
Nice long heavy barrel, and thumbhole stock for
handling recoil better. Plastic case 3" slug loads of ours that
gets 600gr slugs to 1800-1900 fps, work great in this
Like the ones I load and roll crimp in second picture
that are setting behind the little vise, and the one in the
vise readt to be crimped...Ed
Here is a novel slug idea, hard plastic support ring on
the front, and a locked base ring/seal. Metal never
touches the bores. Work in great rifled and good in
smooth barrels. These are steel, lead/copper would do
great also.Could be made heavier and different points.
Flat point shown would do great damage to game.
On the net- ammunitiontogo.com
This one is about 500 gr.
Second picture is the 499HE to use in redoing the 500S&W,
shown on the also, in single shots, etc,for those wanting
much more power at 40-50% lower pressures.Ed
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fryboy
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ed, amigo ... i have to admit that very lil impresses me in life but u guys and ur work with these "shotguns from hell" is awesum !( and impressive !! ) thanx for sharing with us amigo !
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(happy shootin'-the best way to get empty brass!)
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hubel458
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Thanks- It isn't only me but about 20 others all doing different
and same things and ideas. I kinda just put it all together,
when something interesting happens, and something works.
Some more testing with RE17 powder. I used it in 2.75",
3", 3.5" 12ga plastic, 3.5 and 3.85" brass. I like it the
best of all, as well as the real slow powders in our
long case with BMG primer.
Following tested in Savage-max pressure 35k psi.
I took couple of our first made 3.85" BMG based
long cases and bushed them back to use shotgun primers
to fire off the RE17. Works great, with 715gr jacketed slug
and 220 gr RE17 getting 2700 . With 420 gr slug in
BPI sabot with 250 gr RE17 getting 3200 plus.
Following tested in NEF-max pressure 25k psi.
Using 3.5" MRC brass, 715gr jkt and 200gr RE17, got 2500.
420 gr in BPI sabot and 220 gr Re17, got 2900 fps.
And we get real good velocities in plastic with half the
basecup expansion of factory mag loads.So that solves
problem-IE, being able to use regular firing mechanisms and
shotgun primers, with large enough powder charges to
get hairy velocities at mag shotgun pressures in plastic
and higher in brass cases with heavy barrels.A good powder
for plastic and brass loads.
I see now that Lightfield Co has the Commander 3.5" Plus
slug loads with 600gr at 1900, probably in a test barrel.
But that is great- nice, as it seems we're being copied!!! Ed
Here is picture of the cases we make from BMG brass with
a bushings in for smaller primers. Left bmg primer, 2nd shotgun
primer in bushing,3rd a large rifle primer in bushing.Ed
Last edited on Thu Oct 8th, 2009 08:53 AM by hubel458
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| Posted: Tue Oct 13th, 2009 09:36 PM |
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87th Post |
hubel458
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So many guys want sabot type slugs to reload their own.
Here is an interesting combination slug available in Europe
and they are working to get distributors/stores here.
Any interested stores and shops contact them. We need
many sources of saboted slugs for reloading. The sabot
petals discards completely as slug exits muzzle and locked
on base stays with slug, making it nose heavy so it will give
decent accuracy in smooth bores.Will work in rifled barrels
also. Slug is .629" diameter, comes in 570gr, 700gr, 970gr
weights. They are selling these for reloaders only.
It is called the US-S slug, and their site is
europeancartridgeunlimited.com ..Ed
Last edited on Tue Oct 13th, 2009 09:37 PM by hubel458
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| Posted: Tue Oct 13th, 2009 10:07 PM |
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88th Post |
miestro_jerry
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I like to use Sabots in a 12g, I am using the dangerous critter type from BPI. I am looking at molds and maybe brass hulls. We have a combination of coyotes and boars moving around my area due to a major pipeline that is being constructed.
I am still looking for a mold for a decent slug that I can cast and reload, anyone have suggestion on what would work for me?
If civilzation would leave my area alone, then we would have a natrual order of hunting going on.
Jerry
Attachment: gbp_sabot2.jpg (Downloaded 35 times)
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| Posted: Tue Oct 13th, 2009 10:53 PM |
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89th Post |
hubel458
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You can get molds for the Lee and Lyman slugs
the easiest.. I like Lymans and they go into
the 12 ga shotcups.Ed
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| Posted: Tue Oct 13th, 2009 11:19 PM |
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90th Post |
miestro_jerry
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I have been thinking of the Lyman mold, I already have a Lee 7/8 ounce mold and it's o.k. for deer hunting in the area.
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| Posted: Wed Oct 14th, 2009 01:53 AM |
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91st Post |
Novashooter
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I am un impressed by those slugs. 1200-1300 fps for a 3 1/2" slug?!? It should be 1500 fps at least. Anyway no one has ever anwered my question, and I think ed can.
Will a 1 1/8oz round ball .69 slug create the same pressures as 1 1/8 oz of shot?
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| Posted: Wed Oct 14th, 2009 02:02 AM |
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92nd Post |
miestro_jerry
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That is a good question, because I have a mold for that size of ball.
Jerry
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| Posted: Wed Oct 14th, 2009 02:38 AM |
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93rd Post |
miestro_jerry
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I ordered the BPI loading manual, but it got back ordered. I was hoping to have data from that to load a .690 RB in a shot shell or use something like the RB with fins that I have attached.
As that we will be having frosty nights starting tonight, the critters will becoming up to my barn, out building and the house. A couple or three years ago we had a bear in the barn, I thought they were suppose to hibernate this time of the year, but the wildlife officer said it is not uncommon to find them roaming around during cool weather.
Jerry
Attachment: slug_aq.jpg (Downloaded 28 times)
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| Posted: Wed Oct 14th, 2009 04:00 AM |
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94th Post |
hubel458
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That speed they quote for the US-S slug in 3.5"
cases is for the 970 gr one, which is about all you can
get with shotgun powder. With our slow powder loads
in 3.5" plastic we can get 1500 plus with that weight.
A 1 1/8 oz ball will have about same pressures as same weight
of shot and if in a cup with real tight barrel fit, a little more.
But you can use our slow RE17 loads and components and
case changes have very little effect.....If you tell me the
gun and barrel heft and give me the type of case, brass or plastic,
case length, the slug/sabot length and weight and
I'll quote you a load using RE17.Safe loads, that outdo
factory real easy.EdLast edited on Wed Oct 14th, 2009 04:02 AM by hubel458
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| Posted: Wed Oct 14th, 2009 05:31 AM |
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95th Post |
miestro_jerry
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My current candidate is a Canadian made Winchester 12g smooth bore with a 30 inch barrel, but I am getting a bolt gun in 12g with the same length barrel, I don't remember the brand because I am getting it from my brother.
Both are slug guns with smooth bore.
Thanks,
Jerry
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| Posted: Wed Oct 14th, 2009 06:18 AM |
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96th Post |
hubel458
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Just measure the muzzles and that tells us what
slow powder loads to setup. Some 12ga are real light
barrels and we can't do slow powder loads.My
Savage 210 factory barrel is .93"(ok)muzzle,
some Mossys are .92"(ok), Benelli slug guns .93"(ok)
another here was .82"(not OK). The NEF ultra 1.070"
and real great, the Encore 12ga and the 870 above
are 1" which is fine.Ed
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| Posted: Wed Oct 14th, 2009 06:47 AM |
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97th Post |
miestro_jerry
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My winchester measures .854 across the muzzle, so it is not o.k. for this use?
I do have a 870, so is that usable?
Jerry
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| Posted: Wed Oct 14th, 2009 07:06 AM |
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98th Post |
.45 COLT
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I loaded some .69" RB loads in Federal GM hulls (2 3/4") with a 12S3 wad and Longshot powder. Chronos at 1,580 FPS (Avg). Published pressure is 10,600 PSI. That will take care of any bear I'm likely to encounter. Black bears don't take a lot of gun to kill them. I've killed 3 nuisance bears in the past 10 years, .30-30 did for all 3.
DC
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| Posted: Wed Oct 14th, 2009 07:49 AM |
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99th Post |
hubel458
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Jerry- A barrel that light isn't good for our slow
powder loads, where we use larger amounts slow powder.
So you use shotgun powder for that gun.
For your 870 you can buy slug barrels, smooth or rifled
that are heavy enough.Same with Mossy, WIN and Ithaca
pump guns... BUT these barrels cost as much or more as
buying a NEF Ultra 12ga slug gun with a rifled bull barrel
and with weight, soaks up recoil better, and any of our
powerful loads.Even using hairy brass case loads.
And if you are going to get in the recoil business
you should do it with a decent barrel.Ed
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Novashooter
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I was planning on using the RB's in either a 24" smooth bore on a Mossberg 500 or (I haven't got it yet but I'm planning to) a 18.5" smooth bore on a Benelli nova. That eliminates the possibility of the slow powders. The load isn't decided yet but I wanted to use LB 12(light brush wad from BPI)for sure, and the powder, either 800x, 700x, or titegroup. I also have STEEL, and BLUE DOT but I have noticed they take up to 26" of barrel to burn. Basically for hulls I can use anything, exept remington's. They are tapered and are hell to get anything other than trap loads into. I would prefer federal, or fiocchi though. So does anyone have a 1 1/8oz load using the LB 12?
____________________
"A fanatic is one who sticks to his guns whether they're loaded or not." by Franklin P. Jones
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