| Posted: Sat Aug 22nd, 2009 04:40 AM |
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41st Post |
miestro_jerry
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The problem I see, is some people are buying what ever, not always what they need. Panic buying can do that. I still use some of the older types of IMR, SR and other powders. So in many cases, they are the ones I find on the shelves after the crowd has bought some of the more popular powders. I am still looking for some Blue Dot, but I am using Unique instead. So I am flexible.
Right now I can get 6 pounds of AutoComp, it is so new that people haven't gotten use to it. But I prefer 231 over the AutoComp, so some one out there will get AutoComp and may find out how good or bad it can be.
Everytime I go to the box stores, the primer shelves are empty, the local mom and pops always have a few cartons behind the counters some where. So I can pickup a carton of some that I may need. I took up loading Shot Shells in the middle of this frenzy, so I paid $40 for a carton 209 primers. I haven't found them at the big box stores, because this is a really big inline muzzle loader hunting area and folks want to make sure they have what they need before hunting season in November of this year and maybe next year. Pyrodex and Triple 7 is starting to fly of the shelves.
One issue that we as a forum should really consider, getting "almost moden" black powder rifles and pistols. I have my 44 Revolver, an inline muzzle loader and T/C Grey Hawk front stuffer, but a Mauser 1888 Commission rifle would be nice to have. They predate the definition of what a firearm is here in the states.
Just somethings to think about,
Jerry
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| Posted: Sat Aug 22nd, 2009 01:24 PM |
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42nd Post |
fprefect
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miestro_jerry wrote: The problem I see, is some people are buying what ever, not always what they need. Panic buying can do that. I still use some of the older types of IMR, SR and other powders. So in many cases, they are the ones I find on the shelves after the crowd has bought some of the more popular powders. I am still looking for some Blue Dot, but I am using Unique instead. So I am flexible.
Right now I can get 6 pounds of AutoComp, it is so new that people haven't gotten use to it. But I prefer 231 over the AutoComp, so some one out there will get AutoComp and may find out how good or bad it can be.
Everytime I go to the box stores, the primer shelves are empty, the local mom and pops always have a few cartons behind the counters some where. So I can pickup a carton of some that I may need. I took up loading Shot Shells in the middle of this frenzy, so I paid $40 for a carton 209 primers. I haven't found them at the big box stores, because this is a really big inline muzzle loader hunting area and folks want to make sure they have what they need before hunting season in November of this year and maybe next year. Pyrodex and Triple 7 is starting to fly of the shelves.
One issue that we as a forum should really consider, getting "almost moden" black powder rifles and pistols. I have my 44 Revolver, an inline muzzle loader and T/C Grey Hawk front stuffer, but a Mauser 1888 Commission rifle would be nice to have. They predate the definition of what a firearm is here in the states.
Just somethings to think about,
Jerry
Excellent post. What primers I have been able to buy have come from a local range/firearms dealer that I have not only purchased reloading supplies from but also a couple of firearms as well over the past several years and they will hold back primers or other components I'm in need of. Got a call from them yesterday that they received some small magnum pistol primers and were a little surprised when I told them all I would be needing was a couple hundred. I probably would have bought more had they not been in short supply, but I use them for only one load in one revolver that are hunting and personal defense loads so 200 will go a long way as I don't shoot these rounds at the range and I'm sure there are others wanting the same primer.
The still are out of H110 or w296 in 1 lb. lots but I could have bought a 4 lb cannister that work out to be about 17.90/lb. but they're expecting to get some 1 lb cans next Tuesday and they will hold one for me.
I of course realize our economy is likely to encounter more than a few problems in the upcoming years, but I have yet to figure out what some people are expecting. A military coup? Lawlessness in the streets? I don't know what they are expecting and just who the "bad guys" are going to be. The chances that our military would ever fire a shot in anger against the general public are about as close to zero as one can get, and even if our entire armed forces were to side with a military dictator, the weapons in the possession of the general public would be no match, even with a 100 to 1 advantage in personnel. Hell maybe they're afraid of Rush Limbaugh, I don't know and have given up trying to figure out their motives.
F. Prefect
Last edited on Sat Aug 22nd, 2009 01:25 PM by fprefect
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| Posted: Sat Aug 22nd, 2009 01:33 PM |
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43rd Post |
miestro_jerry
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I doubt if the American military fight against the citizens of this country, it is a matter of an oath to protect and defend the constitution. Plus they are also us. Many soldiers, sailors, marines and airmen are good NRA members.
Plus there many of us "old farts" that still have the skills from when we were in the military.
Jerry
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| Posted: Sat Aug 22nd, 2009 01:45 PM |
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3006 user
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miestro_jerry wrote: I doubt if the American military fight against the citizens of this country, it is a matter of an oath to protect and defend the constitution. Plus they are also us. Many soldiers, sailors, marines and airmen are good NRA members.
Plus there many of us "old farts" that still have the skills from when we were in the military.
Jerry
Jerry, I believe you are correct about the military... I also believe that we had better be concerned about our friendly local swat teams when the fit hits the shan... JMO...
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| Posted: Sat Aug 22nd, 2009 02:26 PM |
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miestro_jerry
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Twice in my life I have worked with the local police SWAT teams. Mostly training on weapons they want to buy.
Because of the clients that the SWAT teams generally come up against, a highly trained marksman could keep them at bay for a good period of time. The big things is to not let the SWAT team park their armored vehicle with in 2 or 3 blocks of house. If you have a 50 BMP or a LAAW, you will prevail for a while.
With that being said it is better to have a Bug Out plan, because they most will likely prevail becuase of numbers and time.
Jerry
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| Posted: Sat Aug 22nd, 2009 04:25 PM |
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fprefect
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3006 user wrote: miestro_jerry wrote: I doubt if the American military fight against the citizens of this country, it is a matter of an oath to protect and defend the constitution. Plus they are also us. Many soldiers, sailors, marines and airmen are good NRA members.
Plus there many of us "old farts" that still have the skills from when we were in the military.
Jerry
Jerry, I believe you are correct about the military... I also believe that we had better be concerned about our friendly local swat teams when the fit hits the shan... JMO...
I would agree as well. I really doubt that if we reach a situation where violence would be involved, economics and not politics will be a the root of problem. The "middle class", which at one time served as the backbone of this country, has slowly decreased in size over the past 3 or 4 decades and now we have a situation where fewer and fewer have possession of more and more of the country's assets. This I believe, could lead to more of the violence we saw in the 60s and early 70s.
In other words, and I really don't know how likely this could become, but the "have nots" could very well come after the "haves", and unlike many countries where the very poor pose no real threat to the wealthy establishment, 'our' have nots will likely be well armed. If the current trend continues and the middle class continues to decrease in numbers the more likely such a scenario will become IMHO.
F. Prefect
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| Posted: Sat Aug 22nd, 2009 04:50 PM |
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47th Post |
choppersdad
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Just a little peep into the future!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEPod-hxD7g
Dou you trust your government to protect you?
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| Posted: Sat Aug 22nd, 2009 07:30 PM |
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fprefect
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choppersdad wrote: Just a little peep into the future!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEPod-hxD7g
Dou you trust your government to protect you?
Little too much a download but from viewing the first minute or so and seeing a gentleman in a "Not of this World" tee shirt didn't leave much of an impression. If it deals with terrorism directed at this country, I would agree it is REAL threat. But a threat for the most part of our own creation.
Just my opinion, but if we would keep our nose out of other country's civil wars and other activities dealing with religions we for the most part don't understand, I seriously doubt most of these people would feel the need to direct their terrorist activities at the US.
I'm not saying we should turn the other cheek so to speak, but if we would finally give up the crazy idea that we should somehow become the self appointed police force for the Planet Earth we might save a WHOLE BUNCH of money not to mention lives. Not everyone has the same believes that we do and the sooner we accept that fact, the less reasons these people would feel the need to strike back at our nation.
We are the only remaining Superpower from a military standpoint and I really don't see this changing anytime soon. If we would would direct more of our precious resources at fixing things here at home and not taking sides in other country's civil wars or chasing 2 or 3 terrorist leaders all over the freaking planet, given time, I suspect we would see far fewer terrorist attacks directed at the US.
At one time I trusted the government to do a hell of a lot more than they seem capable of doing today, but if the could provide for the common defense and maintain the critical infrastructure of the country that would go a long way. Keeping our economy running on the straight and narrow would be nice as well an believe it is a role specified in the constitution, but I'm afraid THAT would be asking for too much.
Well I see the pre-race coverage for tonight's NASCAR race has started on the SPEED Channel. Nothin' like 500 laps after dark at Bristol. Gotta go.
F. Prefect
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| Posted: Sat Aug 22nd, 2009 07:45 PM |
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fprefect
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miestro_jerry wrote: I doubt if the American military fight against the citizens of this country, it is a matter of an oath to protect and defend the constitution. Plus they are also us. Many soldiers, sailors, marines and airmen are good NRA members.
Plus there many of us "old farts" that still have the skills from when we were in the military.
Jerry
I have to agree with you Jerry, but a thought crossed my mind when I got my first look at the F-117 in the early stages of the first gulf war and found that that particular aircraft had been operational for 7 or 8 years! Old technology!
And that thought was, I wonder what in the hell else they have that we don't know about? Just a thought.
F. Prefect
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| Posted: Sat Aug 22nd, 2009 07:54 PM |
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miestro_jerry
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Currently the citizens of this country are really upset with the Gov. If the Dems do not do anything constructive, they will voted out. Things could get better or they could get worse, it depends what we get stuck with.
Back to the subject at hand, the cost of primers will probably stay up, that is the some what the way capitism works, but the supply chain will probably catch up with demand in a couple of years.
I really don't complain about the cost of reloading supplies, because I can find what I need if I am patient. Sometimes I have to wait a few months or I end up trading around. You just have to be patient.
Jerry
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| Posted: Sat Aug 22nd, 2009 09:06 PM |
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51st Post |
fprefect
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miestro_jerry wrote: Currently the citizens of this country are really upset with the Gov. If the Dems do not do anything constructive, they will voted out. Things could get better or they could get worse, it depends what we get stuck with.
Back to the subject at hand, the cost of primers will probably stay up, that is the some what the way capitism works, but the supply chain will probably catch up with demand in a couple of years.
I really don't complain about the cost of reloading supplies, because I can find what I need if I am patient. Sometimes I have to wait a few months or I end up trading around. You just have to be patient.
Jerry
I would agree. I have a degree in economics (from times long ago) and even though the increase in production will in many times reduce costs, if the prices stay high for a long enough period of time, the consumer begins to accept the new higher prices and the manufacturers can in most cases keep prices at the higher levels and reap a windfall profit of sorts.
I have 2 good sources and if they are able to get the item in question, and I have let them know I would like a few when they are able to receive any, I'll be able to purchase them although now I'm trying not to make matters worse by purchasing in quantities larger than "normal". I may run out as a result, but worse things could happen.
Do you really believe it will take 2 years before things return to "normal"? If that's true we might actually see prices come down as after another 2 years of hoarding, I would imagine some people with hundreds or even thousands of dollars tied up in primers and other components, may eventually choose to part with few if they find it difficult to make payments on those new pickup trucks or any number of unexpected expenses that could arise. But if there is actually a shortage in some of components used to manufacture primers, that's an entirely different story, but I am not aware of any such shortages.
I sometimes visit a Gold forum as well and the psychology is amazingly similar. Hoarding their gold stacks in the anticipation of a total collapse of the dollar and in the same breath predicting the price of Gold will go to 3000, in guess what, dollars! I get a chuckle out of 'em. Don't thing there's anyone loonier than a gold bug.
F. Prefect
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| Posted: Sun Aug 23rd, 2009 12:16 AM |
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52nd Post |
miestro_jerry
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My masters is in business, I looked ahead after I got my engineering degree.
Consumer will only tolerate a product vacuum only so long. Plus the ramp up time for either a new venture or an existing company to produce a new product is about 2 years. Sometimes sooner, sometimes later.
Now if a foreign company that doesn't have working relations for a special segment of the market, they have to go thru all sorts of safety testing, technology transfer paperwork and patent scrutiny. Plus with our desires, we have the BATF&(E) to deal with.
But a former Soviet Block country that made or makes ammo could go into the primer biz really quick. They may get rushed thru the whole process because of alliances and NATO ties.
Gold is a shiney yellow metal that is valued by the beholder. Lets say that Gold is at $950 now and it the past it was $400. The value of the economy has gone up, the cost of things has gone up, so the perceived dollar increase is not accurate.
Are the primers I bought 20 years for $9.95, are they worth $40.00 now? They are the same primers, some increases are from politics, some increase are from inflations and currently the value has been bumped up because of the Obama scare. They are still the same primers.
Look the history of alcohol or Cuban cigars, becuase of U.S. intervention in the past, prices have gone up and new player are getting into the market place. The French are making Vodka and selling in the states, Cuban cigars have been replaced by cigars from other countries, but the prices are still up. When was the last time you had a really good dollar cigar or a high end vodka neat for a buck? I can remember when.
Try buying a bottle of Jimi Hendrix Electric Vodka, your paying for the name, plus since this has gone to court, this may be a valuable bottle of vodka to hang on to, like fine rare wine. But it is really only vodka.
I can site many examples in the business world where some one or some company will try to get into the market and make lots of money from the shortage. It's called Capitalism.
Jerry
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| Posted: Sun Aug 23rd, 2009 03:25 PM |
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53rd Post |
fprefect
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miestro_jerry wrote: My masters is in business, I looked ahead after I got my engineering degree.
Consumer will only tolerate a product vacuum only so long. Plus the ramp up time for either a new venture or an existing company to produce a new product is about 2 years. Sometimes sooner, sometimes later.
Now if a foreign company that doesn't have working relations for a special segment of the market, they have to go thru all sorts of safety testing, technology transfer paperwork and patent scrutiny. Plus with our desires, we have the BATF&(E) to deal with.
But a former Soviet Block country that made or makes ammo could go into the primer biz really quick. They may get rushed thru the whole process because of alliances and NATO ties.
Gold is a shiney yellow metal that is valued by the beholder. Lets say that Gold is at $950 now and it the past it was $400. The value of the economy has gone up, the cost of things has gone up, so the perceived dollar increase is not accurate.
Are the primers I bought 20 years for $9.95, are they worth $40.00 now? They are the same primers, some increases are from politics, some increase are from inflations and currently the value has been bumped up because of the Obama scare. They are still the same primers.
Look the history of alcohol or Cuban cigars, becuase of U.S. intervention in the past, prices have gone up and new player are getting into the market place. The French are making Vodka and selling in the states, Cuban cigars have been replaced by cigars from other countries, but the prices are still up. When was the last time you had a really good dollar cigar or a high end vodka neat for a buck? I can remember when.
Try buying a bottle of Jimi Hendrix Electric Vodka, your paying for the name, plus since this has gone to court, this may be a valuable bottle of vodka to hang on to, like fine rare wine. But it is really only vodka.
I can site many examples in the business world where some one or some company will try to get into the market and make lots of money from the shortage. It's called Capitalism.
Jerry
It's kind of an interesting question. Without doubt anyone who can ramp up quickly will do so and the result will be more primers, probably at current prices or possibly even higher for a short period time.
But look at the consumption side of equation. If anything, it has gone down, as shooters load and shoot fewer rounds because they have no primers. There has to be a point when even the lamest of hoarders will tire of fondling there cache of primers and those on a modest income will be forced to choose between their cache of 50,000 primers or new refrigerator.
We have a very unusual situation where an increase in demand is not being accompanied by an increase in consumption. I don't believe this condition can continue indefinitely and I see a real possibly that the market could at some point in the not too distant future will be flooded with primers, many coming from those who have been hoarding ridiculous numbers and will be trying to sell a good part of there cache before the market falls even further. It's not unlike the stock market when the trend of a market changes there is a mad rush for the door, whether they be those holding short positions attempting to buy stock at the lowest possibly price to cover there short position, or longs scrambling to sell before the market falls even further.
Granted, it may be true that those holding primers have "taken them off the market" so to speak and this "artificial" shortage will continue for a while longer, but as long as they are not being consumed, we remain to have this very large overhead supply of primers than could be dumped onto the market at any time, once the hoarders see there is not going to a permanent disruption in the supply. I really have my doubts if it will even take the addition of new suppliers for the above scenario to play out. With production very likely exceeding consumption with each passing day, it's only a matter of time until supplies will outstrip demand and the floodgates will open.
F. Prefect
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| Posted: Sun Aug 23rd, 2009 09:25 PM |
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54th Post |
miestro_jerry
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F.
We are consuming more product these days, we are not expending those consumables. So when and if prices go down, we can have a national shooting match and expend all of those primers, but prices may not go down that much.
In my regular profitable retirement work, I restore architectural bronze. The cost for a pound of bronze electrodes is about $30. I found a 50 pound tin of these electrodes for $125 at an estate sale. So they were consumed by an end user, but not yet expended.
How many countries make ammunition that we can buy here in the states? That is the number of existing organizations that can possibly produce primers.
Currently, if you are a cap and ball shooter, there is a device that lets you make percussion caps with simple easy to find items. I have ordered one of these for my Grey Hawk and 1858 Revolver. Some one was thinking ahead with that product.
If the supply becomes greater than the demand, then shooter will be shooting more, because of lower costs and availability to the end users, and probably a celebration for over coming a tyrannical government.
Jerry
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| Posted: Sun Aug 23rd, 2009 09:26 PM |
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55th Post |
tracer
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wolf primers are already available as is their loaded ammo/ made in russia.
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| Posted: Sun Aug 23rd, 2009 10:26 PM |
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56th Post |
fprefect
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miestro_jerry wrote: F.
We are consuming more product these days, we are not expending those consumables. So when and if prices go down, we can have a national shooting match and expend all of those primers, but prices may not go down that much.
In my regular profitable retirement work, I restore architectural bronze. The cost for a pound of bronze electrodes is about $30. I found a 50 pound tin of these electrodes for $125 at an estate sale. So they were consumed by an end user, but not yet expended.
How many countries make ammunition that we can buy here in the states? That is the number of existing organizations that can possibly produce primers.
Currently, if you are a cap and ball shooter, there is a device that lets you make percussion caps with simple easy to find items. I have ordered one of these for my Grey Hawk and 1858 Revolver. Some one was thinking ahead with that product.
If the supply becomes greater than the demand, then shooter will be shooting more, because of lower costs and availability to the end users, and probably a celebration for over coming a tyrannical government.
Jerry
A possibly misunderstanding or choice of words. When I use the term consume, (and it could be the wrong choice of words) I intend it to mean use up, as in burn gasoline or drop the hammer on the primer and although you are correct in saying 'some' goods and services may be being used at a greater rate than say 2 years ago, due to the slowdown in most G20 economies, it is my understanding that the World as a whole is currently consuming less. Anytime a product is not consumed it remains in the supply chain. Not always "visable", but there nevertheless. It may not be "accessible" at this point in time, but it still exists and could at any time become "available" so to speak. Right or wrong, that's the way I look at this current primer shortage.
It would not surprise me in the least if there are more unfired primers (not designated for use my the military) currently in existence than there has been at any time during the past 5 years as manufacturers are taking advantage of the higher prices to increase production rates and maximize profits. But it's the fact that many are not available for sale that has created this "shortage", a shortage that could turn into a surplus the minute the "holders" of many of these primers believe the shortage is about to end do to increased rates of production and it is no longer in their best interest to posses large quantities of primers. And if enough of these hoarded primers begin to "hit the marketplace" prices could fall and we could see a flood of primers offered for sale. Don't know if that scenario will play out, but I do believe the necessary elements are in place. Possibly.
F. Prefect
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| Posted: Sun Aug 23rd, 2009 11:30 PM |
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57th Post |
miestro_jerry
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As mentioned by Tracer, Wolf is getting into the primer market. I am wondering if IMI will get back into the American market.
As far the war needs, these two little wars are not using up that much in ammunition, think about 1968 Vietnam, there was no primer, powder or ammo shortage and we had a bazillion troops involved compared to today plus we still had a lot of troops deployed to Europe and Asia that aren't there today. At the current rate the DOD is buying up 7.62 x 39 Com Bloc ammo for our "Allies", there maybe a major shortage there, but I don't think it will occur, those countries will just increase production after their stock pile start to run low if they ever run low. Because the U.S. is paying cash and aid to these countries. The U.S. is one of the few countries that has imported lots of foreign military weapons and ammunition for public consumption. I remember when Southern Ohio Guns bought a huge shipment of Russian SKSs and the largest Russian military transport aircraft landed at Rickenbacker Port Authority full of in the crate SKs rifles. We are great consumer for just about everything.
America as well as the world is full of inventive capitalist. There are ammo producing countries that we don't normally deal with, that may want a piece of the action, because that means profit, in other terms that means wealth. Think about the industrial potential that China has or that Lapua is making Finland famous for their quality ammo, how about Mag Tech or Barnbaul?
If there is a profit to be made some country or company or individual will come in to meet the demand.
Jerry
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| Posted: Mon Aug 24th, 2009 12:53 AM |
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58th Post |
fprefect
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miestro_jerry wrote: As mentioned by Tracer, Wolf is getting into the primer market. I am wondering if IMI will get back into the American market.
As far the war needs, these two little wars are not using up that much in ammunition, think about 1968 Vietnam, there was no primer, powder or ammo shortage and we had a bazillion troops involved compared to today plus we still had a lot of troops deployed to Europe and Asia that aren't there today. At the current rate the DOD is buying up 7.62 x 39 Com Bloc ammo for our "Allies", there maybe a major shortage there, but I don't think it will occur, those countries will just increase production after their stock pile start to run low if they ever run low. Because the U.S. is paying cash and aid to these countries. The U.S. is one of the few countries that has imported lots of foreign military weapons and ammunition for public consumption. I remember when Southern Ohio Guns bought a huge shipment of Russian SKSs and the largest Russian military transport aircraft landed at Rickenbacker Port Authority full of in the crate SKs rifles. We are great consumer for just about everything.
America as well as the world is full of inventive capitalist. There are ammo producing countries that we don't normally deal with, that may want a piece of the action, because that means profit, in other terms that means wealth. Think about the industrial potential that China has or that Lapua is making Finland famous for their quality ammo, how about Mag Tech or Barnbaul?
If there is a profit to be made some country or company or individual will come in to meet the demand.
Jerry
I couldn't agree more. If there is a profit to be made, many companies in the business of manufacturing various types of reloading components may even have the ability to shift production from one item to another to maximize profits.
I had intended to mention this earlier and forgot. A couple of days ago in another firearms related forum I came across a thread with most of posters being members of the same local rifle club. They were "discussing" the success of a recent primer buying excursion where each member was given a couple of nearby counties and "hit" as many gun shops as possible with the intent of buying all the primers they could afford.
I suspect that most of these individuals were not below the poverty line, but were by no means millionaires either, not to mention rocket scientists. I expect most could "afford" to tie up several thousand dollars in primers and other components and suppose for a while anyway may get some enjoyment out going into the basement and view their cache of primers like Gold bugs enjoy handling their 1 oz coins.
But I expect time will soon come when that several thousand dollars may be needed for something a bit more important the rifle primers and they will make the decision to sell a few to the highest bidder. And the first ones to sell may even realize a profit. But when supply finally has the chance to catch up with demand, and it soon will from what I read in your post, the bottom could fall out of primer market and do so in a hurry. The only concern I might have with some of the foreign made primers with factories operating at full capacity would be quality, but if that occurs I suspect if will be brief in nature.
But there is one thing that I have yet to see seriously addressed in any of these forums is WHY some are so concerned about the availability of reloading supples. What do they foresee happening, the repeal of the 2nd amendment? A military coup? A large scale terrorist attack? A total socioeconomic collapse? I just can't come up with a truly logical explanation. This country has far greater problems to deal with than a secret Obama plot to create primers with a 2 year shelf life. Someone actually was in fear of that? So Jerry, what's your take?
It's been fun but I think we may be nearing the point of wearing this topic out.
F. Prefect
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| Posted: Mon Aug 24th, 2009 01:16 AM |
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miestro_jerry
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We are getting toward the end, but companies not related to firearms may jump into this field very quickly. The Chinese have been famous for doing this, as well as India and Poland.
I have a lot of ammo and components onhand, when I do a run of one caliber, I look to have about a two year supply. Before Obama, I had that much ammo on hand, probabaly more, now I am looking to have enough for 3 1/2 years on hand. Plus I have my own rifle and pistol range in the backyard, and maybe soon a sporting clays range.
I have seen much in my life and have lived in many places on this planet, but currently I see America faltering or fading away. There have been a few mentions of Water the Tree of Liberty, which I am against, because I am opposed to briother killing brother, but it that times comes I do want to be prepared.
So everyone keep on stocking up and loading.
Jerry
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| Posted: Mon Aug 24th, 2009 04:12 AM |
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60th Post |
fprefect
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miestro_jerry wrote: We are getting toward the end, but companies not related to firearms may jump into this field very quickly. The Chinese have been famous for doing this, as well as India and Poland.
I have a lot of ammo and components onhand, when I do a run of one caliber, I look to have about a two year supply. Before Obama, I had that much ammo on hand, probabaly more, now I am looking to have enough for 3 1/2 years on hand. Plus I have my own rifle and pistol range in the backyard, and maybe soon a sporting clays range.
I have seen much in my life and have lived in many places on this planet, but currently I see America faltering or fading away. There have been a few mentions of Water the Tree of Liberty, which I am against, because I am opposed to briother killing brother, but it that times comes I do want to be prepared.
So everyone keep on stocking up and loading.
Jerry
Yeah I suppose better safe that sorry and I enjoy reloading anyway and am in no rush so I take my time. Enjoy the dialog and learned a few things in the process, and ya can't beat that. I guess the one thing that bothers me most about the primer debacle is what it might do to the new reloader, or someone considering it. I just hope it passes a quickly as possible.
Really got a chuckle out of Obama's 2 year shelf life primers and the guy was serious. Guess some folks are born to believe anything if they read it on the Internet or see it on the boob tube. Unfortunate.
later,
Gary, F. Prefect, Whatever.
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