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Chas Martel
HB Full Member
| Joined: | 11 October 2008 |
| Location: | Nirvana, Wyoming USA |
| Posts: | 9 |
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Posted: 18 October 2008 06:36 PM |
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I'm about to work up my first load for 148 gr. HBWC. These are to be loaded for targets, so high velocity is not needed. Back in the day when I loaded these before I always used Bullseye. In my research, I see it is still very popular because it is inexpensive and delivers accurate loads. It does have a reputation for not being a particularly clean burner. That is consistent with my recollection. I used to know trap shooters who used 700X instead of Bullseye, even though it was more expensive, because it burned much cleaner. So, I've decided to start with something other than Bullseye. My research indicates the following powders present as the most like alternatives:
Alliant American Select
Winchester W231
Winchester WSF
Hodgdon HP38
Hodgdon Titegroup
IMR 700X
IMR PB
IMR SR7625
My criteria in order of preference are 1) accuracy, 2) clean burning, & 3) economical.
Another, less important factor is that I plan, at a later time, to load rounds for a .40 S&W and it would be a bonus if I found a powder that worked well in both calibers.
Thanks much for any imput you may have.
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72coupe
Handloading Master
| Joined: | 11 June 2006 |
| Location: | Iowa Park, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 1546 |
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Posted: 18 October 2008 11:25 PM |
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I have used new Bullseye and Red Dot. Both clean and accurate.
Unfortunately I am out of both and cannot buy any around here so I guess I'll have to use an old can of Blue Dot.
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Reloader since 1969.
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sako06
addicted handloader
| Joined: | 22 July 2007 |
| Location: | California USA |
| Posts: | 508 |
| Photo: | | | Are you a handloader?: | Yes | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | I load everything! |
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Posted: 19 October 2008 08:29 PM |
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| We have supply problems here one store is a gouger,BP isn't cheap & sportsmans warehouse(now closed after 4 months) choose a location in the desert out of the mainstream where few people go for anything except to drive thru on their way to las vegas. Last edited on 19 October 2008 08:34 PM by sako06
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Dirtkicker
addicted handloader
| Joined: | 3 September 2007 |
| Location: | High Plains |
| Posts: | 351 |
| Photo: | | | Are you a handloader?: | Yes | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | I load everything! |
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Posted: 19 October 2008 10:48 PM |
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| My PPC shooting was almost entirely done with 231. 3.1 gr as I remember. Excellent powder and outstanding results.
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sako06
addicted handloader
| Joined: | 22 July 2007 |
| Location: | California USA |
| Posts: | 508 |
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Posted: 19 October 2008 11:30 PM |
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| There are cautions about using blue dot in certain calibers
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72coupe
Handloading Master
| Joined: | 11 June 2006 |
| Location: | Iowa Park, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 1546 |
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Posted: 20 October 2008 01:12 AM |
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| I read those Blue Dot warnings but I assumed those were for new Blue Dot. The can I have is more than 20 years old.
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Reloader since 1969.
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jjb2
addicted handloader
| Joined: | 5 July 2007 |
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| Posts: | 393 |
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Posted: 20 October 2008 03:19 AM |
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| for my money bullseye is still the best powder for .38 spl especially target loads... the alliant site has a recipe for be in 40 s&w there too....
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sako06
addicted handloader
| Joined: | 22 July 2007 |
| Location: | California USA |
| Posts: | 508 |
| Photo: | | | Are you a handloader?: | Yes | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | I load everything! |
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Posted: 20 October 2008 03:40 AM |
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| I also used red dot with excellent results in addition to bullseye.
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swampshooter
HB Full Member
| Joined: | 3 August 2008 |
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| Posts: | 90 |
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Posted: 20 October 2008 02:31 PM |
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Trap shooters used 700x instead of RED DOT, not bullseye. I was one of them. This was normally done by people who shot gas operated autos. You can try to re-invent the wheel if you want to, other powders will work, but none will be as accurate as bullseye for .38 wadcutters.
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Chas Martel
HB Full Member
| Joined: | 11 October 2008 |
| Location: | Nirvana, Wyoming USA |
| Posts: | 9 |
| Photo: | | | Are you a handloader?: | Yes | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | rifle |
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Posted: 20 October 2008 08:12 PM |
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Swampshooter,
You're correct about Red Dot. Please excuse my bad memory. I going through my old reloaduing stuff, which has been in boxes for years, I came across a full, or almost full, 11 oz. can of Bullseye. That saves me the price of buying a new can of powder for the next 1600 or so rounds I'll be putting through the ol' revolver. Thanks for the endorsement of Bullseye, I'll take your word there is not a more accurate powder for the .38 spl. wadcutter load. It is certainly backed up by the continuing popularity of the Bullseye. Later, I might compare and contrast it with TiteGroups just for fun.
On another interesting note, I came across what must be at least 500 rounds of what appear to be 158 gr. 38 cal. SWC cast bullets. Boy I don't remember leaving these around unused! My partner in the casting venture might have left me these as he left with the melting furnace. These bullets need to be lubed, however. Is the Lee lubing die set listed here at Midway a good tool?
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=685087&t=11082005
I've had very good results from Lee products in the past, so I'm assuming this is a very acceptable way to go for lubing these SWC bullets.
Do you all think Bullseye is still the most accurate powder for the SWC bullet?
Best wishes, Chas
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2571
HB Full Member
| Joined: | 12 September 2008 |
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| Posts: | 25 |
| Photo: | | | Are you a handloader?: | Yes | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | pistol |
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Posted: 21 October 2008 02:44 AM |
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I use both the resizing die and the Liquid Alox. I like the lube. It smells kinda nice, not quite like Hoppes #9, but pleasant nonetheless. Application is easy; I let the lubed bullets dry for a day before I use 'em.
I heat the Alox by placing the container in acup of very hot water for 5-10 minutes before using it on the cast bullets.
I have not had leading problems in .38Sp. However, the finished rounds will get a little messy. You may have to wash your hands after loading a couple of hundred.
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jjb2
addicted handloader
| Joined: | 5 July 2007 |
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| Posts: | 393 |
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Posted: 21 October 2008 02:47 AM |
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| cool chas!! nothing like finding stuff you forgot about! i used one of those lee sizers for awhile... they work as far as i'm concerned as good as anything... i used the lube alittle different than it says i think... seems like i sized the bullet then put the lube in the groove.................. it's been awhile..................
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Dirtkicker
addicted handloader
| Joined: | 3 September 2007 |
| Location: | High Plains |
| Posts: | 351 |
| Photo: | | | Are you a handloader?: | Yes | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | I load everything! |
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Posted: 21 October 2008 02:49 AM |
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Well, B'eye is excellent stuff and I have used much if it. But it is a little much to say "nothing is better." My tests, with a custom PPC revolver, in a Ransom rest, showed that 231 consistently outshot the Bullseye loads. A reasonable person would therefore NOT say "231 is better than B'eye." But he might say "In this revolver and with these loadings, 231 was superior at 50 yards and under."
Absolute statements in reloading are usually flawed.
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Chas Martel
HB Full Member
| Joined: | 11 October 2008 |
| Location: | Nirvana, Wyoming USA |
| Posts: | 9 |
| Photo: | | | Are you a handloader?: | Yes | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | rifle |
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Posted: 21 October 2008 03:06 AM |
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With 2 firm endorsements from this board, W231 will also be on my list to try. It's a bit more costly, as the Hodgdon web site lists the starting load for W231 to be 3.5 gr., while starting load for Titegroup is 2.7 gr., which is about the same as most sources list for starting load of Bullseye.
As to resizing the cast bullets I have, how do I know which diameter to use? .356. .357 or .358?
Best wishes, Chas
Last edited on 21 October 2008 03:08 AM by Chas Martel
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Charley
Administrator
| Joined: | 9 September 2005 |
| Location: | San Antonio, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 2299 |
| Photo: | | | Are you a handloader?: | Yes | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | I load everything! |
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Posted: 21 October 2008 03:19 AM |
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| .358 in most barrels. If you try some LLA, test some at the as cast diameter. Save a step, and often more accurate than a bulet that has been sized, IME.
____________________
"Barack, the Magic Negro, lived in DC,
"The LA Times they called him that,
'cause he's not authentic like me..." Al Sharpton
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Gnarly
HB Full Member
| Joined: | 14 May 2008 |
| Location: | Kentucky USA |
| Posts: | 35 |
| Photo: | | | Are you a handloader?: | Yes | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | I load everything! |
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Posted: 21 October 2008 04:02 AM |
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Strongly agree with Dirtkicker!
W231 for .38 Spl.
W296 for .357 Mag.
The only 2 pistol powders I keep.
Good luck with your handloading,
----Gnarly 
____________________
~*~ Pray for Peace but reload more ammo ~*~
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Dirtkicker
addicted handloader
| Joined: | 3 September 2007 |
| Location: | High Plains |
| Posts: | 351 |
| Photo: | | | Are you a handloader?: | Yes | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | I load everything! |
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Posted: 21 October 2008 05:32 PM |
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My standard load with 231, 148grLWCs, was 3.2.
Standard with B'eye, same bullet, was 2.7.
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miestro_jerry
HB Life Member
| Joined: | 28 June 2008 |
| Location: | Somerton (AKA BFE), Ohio USA |
| Posts: | 773 |
| Photo: | [Download] | | Are you a handloader?: | Yes | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | I load everything! |
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Posted: 22 October 2008 12:41 AM |
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I use 231 for most of my pistol calibers except for my heavy Magnums and Maximums.
As that I am a big Marlin lever gun fan and cast and load my own for those guns, I do understand the Lee Lube/Sizing methods. Ranch Dog molds has documented how to do the Lee Sizer and Lubing. Ranch Dog spends a lot of time, money and effort to perfect his own bullets.
Here is his Lee Alox and Sizing methods:
http://www.marlinowners.com/forums/index.php/topic,27078.0.html
Jerry
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