| Posted: Thu Mar 19th, 2009 04:49 AM |
|
1st Post |
Rockydog
Administrator
| Joined: | Tue Jul 26th, 2005 |
| Location: | Wisconsin USA |
| Posts: | 5176 |
| Photo: | | | Are you a handloader?: | Yes | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | I load everything! | | My favorite chambering is:: | 8mm Mauser |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
How about some discussion from some long time loaders here about what will work in a "have to" use basis. I'm talking about substituting Large Rifle for Magnum Large Rifle. Large pistol for Large rifle etc.
What adjustments might be needed in loads? What are the risks? eg: Are pistol primers enough softer that Rifle firing pins might pierce them etc.
Differences between Rem 6 1/2 and Rem 7 1/2? RD
____________________
"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~ Thomas Jefferson ~
Charter Member of the Society for the Hopelessly Nitrocellulose Addicted.
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 19th, 2009 06:56 AM |
|
2nd Post |
fryboy
Administrator
| Joined: | Sun Feb 24th, 2008 |
| Location: | Close To Home , Middle Of America, USA |
| Posts: | 6700 |
| Photo: | [Download] | | Are you a handloader?: | Yes | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | I load everything! | | My favorite chambering is:: | ones that work |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
ok while not on the forum as long as lots of guys i started reloading with black powder( every shot is a reload lolz )but have been reloading for just over 30 years ,i made a mistake when i was 17 i'll never forget -swedish mauser ...pistol primers....didnt "blow" the primer but it did pierce it ,i try my best to make sure that never happens again ,i also stop reloading with any distraction ,
keep in mind plinking isnt as demanding as 1000 yd shots
pistol primers arent only softer they are also a wee bit shorter,black powder loads possibly could be loaded with pistol primers(16000 psi-appox vs. 60000 psi )old win brass 12 gauges shells called for pistol primers and lacking pistol primers one could possibly use rifle primers as long as they make absolutely sure that it isnt sticking above the case head( hate the thought of a slam fire )i wouldnt with max loads tho
rifle primers.....
i used to have a 222..sweet lil gun started with cci's br4,couldnt get them for a minute and tried rp's 7 1/2's worked up a load surprise .1 grain less powder same fps ,havent tried the 6 1/2's, standard cci's 400's for same fps +.6 keep in mind that was for that one gun
me and my brother have a couple that we both own ( same make model etc ) his varmit loads he uses cci 250's i use 200's but here it changes he uses hornady 58's i use nosler 55's( .243 for the curious) i use 2.6 grains less( we both use h414 for this load btw same lot#)i also moly mine ,,mine is consistently 20-22 fps faster also my primers arent as flat as his and my brass last much longer ( yes i know i could work up the load until i start getting flat primers but i'd rather not )
IMO one mite safely switch from a mag or a benchrest to a "standard " primer with less worries than vice versa i also know working up a load for only 100 primers ( ermm 100 minus workup loads) is hardly worth it except as a last resort ,fine for hunting as we fine tune our loas for group size and moa vs. minute of deer is drasticly different( altho knowing exactly where that shot will hit at 500 yards is a comforting thing that without that confidence i'd just have to turn down that shot)
speaking of shot ....loading for shotguns ( tho there still seems to be many of those left yet ) most loads call for about a 1 grain powder reduction when using a shotgun mag primer - i have never tested this thru a chrony tho and it DOES NOT apply equally to rifles and pistols but i will say that if i use cci but can only get win i'm going to use them ,being as most my loads arent at max i'd still back off at least a couple percent perhaps not quite to starting loads,i'd back off a lil more for federals and i would back off to starting loads with any mag or benchrest to replace standard
____________________
(happy shootin'-the best way to get empty brass!)
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 19th, 2009 12:29 PM |
|
3rd Post |
dakotasin
Board Founder
back to top
|
the revolvers i've tested show small and large rifle substitute in w/ no ill effects. i have not tried swapping in a rifle primer for an autoloader, but i can't imagine it would do bad things in most autos.
i have swapped magnum rifle in and out of standard rifle loads w/ minimal effects. the load runs a bit hotter, but not enough to get worried about, and poi remains the same. have also swapped standard primers into magnum loads w/ no problems, but have not tried doing that w/ loads that run upwards of 90 grains.
i don't think i would swap pistol primers into rifle cartridges, though. the slightly smaller, softer primer would concern me a bit, and i could probably live just fine w/o intentionally risking a pierced primer.
i have swapped magnum primers in and out of pistol loads a couple times. probably isn't the best practice, but i did not have anything bad happen from it, but the load does run notably hotter; this is an application where it would make sense to back off a bit before swapping mag primer in. haven't had any bad effects from putting a standard primer into a magnum load, but haven't done that but a couple times. in an emergency this would be ok, but i don't think i'd make it a standard practice for reliability's sake.
____________________
Hunting is not a matter of life or death; it is much more important than that!
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 20th, 2009 12:36 AM |
|
4th Post |
ohiococonut
HB Pro Staff
| Joined: | Tue Apr 10th, 2007 |
| Location: | Central, Ohio USA |
| Posts: | 133 |
| Photo: | | | Are you a handloader?: | Yes | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | I load everything! | | My favorite chambering is:: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
The main difference between pistol and rifle primers is the thickness of the cup, with the rifles being thicker. If you run a hot load in a rifle it's not advisable to switch to pistol primers for fear of a pierced primer or even a magnum rifle primer for that matter. If you're running a hot load in anything you should back the charge down before switching to magnum primers.
Now, if you want to switch from large pistol to large rifle you have a problem with length. The rifle primer is .006" longer which will cause the primer to stand proud in a pistol case. This was all discussed in great detail when S&W switched primers in the S&W 500. Initially the cases came with large pistol primers. Through some trial and error (mostly error) they found because of the pressures they got pierced primers using large pistol primers. Brass was changed to use large rifle primers, thus the designation "R" on newer brass. However, you can ream S&W 500 brass that has a large pistol primer pocket to use large rifle primers wilth no ill effect. If you don't ream the pockets you stand the chance of a slam fire. Yes, in a revolver.
Most brass has enough of a variance that it's barely noticable but be forewarned if you switch. Make sure the case will stand upright without wobbling and the primers don't stand proud. Here again, if you run a standard load in a rifle and switch to a large pistol primer you stand the chance of a misfire because it is shorter.
I don't see a problem switching between magnum and standard primers as long as they're used in their intended weapon. They're not scarce enough for me to switch between pistol and rifle, yet. Some special considerations need to be taken.
____________________
If you find yourself in a hole, the first thing to do is stop diggin'
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 20th, 2009 03:45 AM |
|
5th Post |
Ranch 13
Handloading Master
| Joined: | Sat Apr 1st, 2006 |
| Location: | Hells Gap, Wyoming USA |
| Posts: | 581 |
| Photo: | | | Are you a handloader?: | Yes | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | rifle | | My favorite chambering is:: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
Swapping magnum and regular primers doesn't cause much trouble, you will likely have to rework a load to get the accuracy adjusted.
I would be hesistant to use pistol primers in rifle cartridges using smokeless powder, but have had no problems using them in rifle cartridges loaded with black powder.
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 20th, 2009 11:11 AM |
|
6th Post |
Timberghozt
Board Founder
| Joined: | Fri Feb 11th, 2005 |
| Location: | Texas USA |
| Posts: | 7040 |
| Photo: | [Download] | | Are you a handloader?: | Yes | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | I load everything! | | My favorite chambering is:: | 300 Winchester Magnum ... |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
hmm,thats why you buy 30,000 primers beforehand
jk Rocky
Never tried it,I consider the primer I use in a good load as part of the components of its accuracy.
I dont switch out primers.
____________________
"He who fights with monsters might take care, lest he thereby become a monster; For if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - F.Nietzche
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 23rd, 2009 02:00 AM |
|
7th Post |
72coupe
HB certified Master Handloading and Ballistics advisor
| Joined: | Sun Jun 11th, 2006 |
| Location: | Iowa Park, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 2505 |
| Photo: | | | Are you a handloader?: | | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | | | My favorite chambering is:: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
Rockydog wrote: Differences between Rem 6 1/2 and Rem 7 1/2? RD
The 6 1/2 is for low intensity cartridges like the Hornet of Bee and maybe suitable for some pistol loads. They don't work well in my Taurus revolver though.
The 7 1/2 on the other hand has a very hard cup and is very good for ARs and other semi autos. While the 6 1/2 is very mild the 7 1/2 is very hot and will light any powder very well.
Some of my very best AR loads are with 6 1/2s. But the bolt face looks very bad after a few thousand rounds.
____________________
Reloader since 1969.
|
|
