| Posted: Thu May 21st, 2009 01:26 AM |
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gospeedracer51
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I know not to mix different powders, but can you mix different lots of the same powder? I have 5lbs of RE15 & just got 4 1lb cans. I was thinking of mixing them all together to make 1 lot #. Like mixing paint to make sure the color is the same. Is this ok or a bad idea?
Mike
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| Posted: Thu May 21st, 2009 02:41 AM |
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klallen
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i've mixed various lots of the same powder from small canisters into larger over the years. h110, retumbo specifically and mixed the powder well. some will suggest to ya to drop an established load a bit, just to be on the safe side if there are minute variances. probably not a bad idea if your original load is at the top end of max. however, in my experience, i've not seem variances with these powders that mattered.
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| Posted: Thu May 21st, 2009 03:36 AM |
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swampshooter
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I've combined different lots of the same powder on a regular basis over the years, it's always worked out for me.
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| Posted: Thu May 21st, 2009 04:07 AM |
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dakotasin
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ditto... i do it all the time.
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| Posted: Thu May 21st, 2009 06:01 AM |
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gospeedracer51
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I just read the lables on the cans & they have different stuff in them. It seems that there are 2 different fomulas for RE15. Made in different plants, maybe? Do you think it's still ok? I'm just starting a load & want the power to be consistant.
Mike
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| Posted: Thu May 21st, 2009 06:26 AM |
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Paul Tummers
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Depends on the powder concerned I think.
I exlusively do use Vhitavuori powder, there is no other available to me, but I never mix it.
This powder factory is known for making frequent changes in their powders, and a new can means testing again.
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| Posted: Thu May 21st, 2009 12:23 PM |
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klallen
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again, if it were me and i had the desire to mix same powders in to one larger lot, i'd do so. given that you don't already have a load established and will be starting from scratch, any concerns that you may have with variances would be address by the fact you'd be starting things out at the low end anyway. mix the product well and reload. least, that's what i'd do and not have a concern about it.
no matter the advice you get here, you gotta do what makes you comfortable.
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| Posted: Thu May 21st, 2009 01:12 PM |
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wheezengeezer
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If you feel uneasy mixing,just make the switch from one lot to the other as smooth as possible.If you have a chrony,baseline the loads velocity using the first lot. Drop back a little with the new lot,check the velocity,and work up to the previous lots velocity. Last edited on Thu May 21st, 2009 01:12 PM by wheezengeezer
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| Posted: Thu May 21st, 2009 01:42 PM |
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gospeedracer51
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Thanks guys. I'm told 1 lot is made in the US & the other is made in Sweden. I was thinking it should be fine to mix but just wanted to ask to be sure.
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| Posted: Sat May 30th, 2009 01:21 PM |
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txsnowman2k2
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i will play the other side of the coin and say no... i guess if you are just kicking up dirt and shooting at cans,,,,, ok. if you have established loads, shoot comp or defense load, NO... inconsistencies in the powder lots may vary the loads... IMHO, DON'T...tx
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Rooster
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I do it all the time to help save space in my cabinets.
You can get three pounds of TAC in a one pound TAC container.
You can get two of most others, Winchester, IMR, Alliant, etc, in one of their one pound containers. Usually ... not always, but usually.
I've also been of the mindset over the years that mixing lots of the same make/powder allows for more consistency when it comes to my loads - just incase one lot is slightly different than the other.
The only drawback I've ever considered was IF there happened to be a recall on a certain lot and I had mixed that lot with a previous lot. Hasn't happened yet, but I suppose it could happen.
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ottsixx
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I have done it a bit and never had a problem but kind of like mixing paint I do a good mix or blend of it all and it always came out shootin swell................
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| Posted: Mon Jul 13th, 2009 02:24 PM |
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MoreShooter
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NO NO NO, It is not recommended, although you can see here many people do it. Different powder lots have different burn rates and generate different pressures. During the compounding process the powder is tested and the formulations are tweeked to attempt to keep burnrates and pressures in the same value range. No two lots are exactly alike. The odds of a castostrophic failure are not emminent but if any thing ever does happen then there is no traceability. Also by mixing lots you change the characteristics of both of the original lots and your previous load development data is no longer current or valid. This just my .02.
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| Posted: Mon Jul 13th, 2009 02:53 PM |
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ottsixx
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Yipper i know were no supposed to but ,people arent suppose to do drugs become drunks ect ect but they do anyhow,I took a mixed up bunch of 4350 a couple years back and loaded it up into some 243s and doggone they were some of the most accurate loads I ever made..................................
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| Posted: Sun Jul 19th, 2009 08:16 PM |
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Paul B
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I shoot RE-15 in my .35 Whelen. One can says made in the USA and the other made in Sweden. They are definitely different. Not by much, but definitely different. Loads with the USA stuff use a bit more powder than the fresher Swedish stuff so be careful.
Look at it this way. So you get a large container and dump the whole mess into it and then start mixing. What gaurantee do you have that it will be thoroughly mixed with the granules of each type evenly distributed thoughout the mix. What precautions can you take to prevent static electricity? One spark and it's all over for you and your local burn center will considering you to be their next cash cow.
Here's what I would do. Assuming you already have a load worked up for one of the powder lots, take the new lot and work up to as close or equal to your already worked up load. If the new load is within one half grain or less of your current max loading, then you can most likely be safe in mixing the two. Otherwise, I would treat the new batch as a whole new powder and do the appropriate load work up.
That's how I handled the difference for my .35 Whelen. I felt that a 1.5 gr. difference was just a bit too much for my tastes and I do have a tender regard for my fat bod.
Paul B.
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| Posted: Mon Jul 20th, 2009 05:20 PM |
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Rooster
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I guess my only arguement to all of this would be, so how does the manual's load data change from batch to batch if there is such a difference between batches?
Answer: It does not - load data from the mfg's manuals do not change from batch to batch.
Caveat - yes this might affect your suc moa recipe to some degree, but it shouldn't by much and even then, for br shooters, we're all going to run batches out of the same can anyways. But for large runs of the plinking stuff, hunting stuff, personal defense stuff ... I see no reason why mixing should change a thing except as already noted above - which would be in the case of a recall.
Last edited on Mon Jul 20th, 2009 05:20 PM by Rooster
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The term "Parabellum" is ancient Roman Latin in origin and from the motto:
"Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum" Translated: "If You Want Peace - Prepare For War."
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| Posted: Mon Jul 20th, 2009 08:11 PM |
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Paul B
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Rooster said, "Answer: It does not - load data from the mfg's manuals do not change from batch to batch."
You are correct up tp a point. If the writers of the manuals had to update every time a powder manufacturor came up with a new lot of powder, they couldn't keep up. 
However, some writers of loading manuals have not updated certain loads since 1967. 
If you think I'm kidding, check out a Lyman manual #44's data for 4895 powder. Then compare it with the data from manual #48 circa 2002. In the first manual, they do not state if it's milsurp, Hodgden's or DuPont's version of 4895 and not it's IMR made in I believe Canada. I'm talking the data for the 150 gr. bullet which I used in the 30-06 almost exclusively for more years than I care to count. I never could come anywhere near what they said was a max load with 4895 but what I did attain was a decent deer killer. Now, I haven't seen the 49th edition of the Lyman manual but I'm sure curious to see if the data has changed. In fact, with current IMR-4895, my old load will blow primer and that's a load two gr. below maximum and this happens in four rifles chambered to the 30-06 including thre factory and one custom gun.
If you want to get a real thrill, get a copy of a Lyman #43 or older and look at the charges for 4895 which I'm guessing is probably milsurp from WW2. Just don't use that date or you'll need a new gun plus good health insurance.
I'm still tring to get a history on 4895 powder. Most of the Du pont IMR-powders like 3031, 4064 etc. came in the scene right around 1937. I got that from Phil Sharpe's book "Complete Guide to Handloading". I have all the copies of the American Rifleman from 1938 to today and a few copies from 1936 and 1937 and no information there.  I am missing the entire year of 1939 so there may have been info durin that year.
However, shortly after WW2, the NRA started selling milsurp 4895 in bulk to the members. Each lot had it's own special loading instructions. depending on the lot, it could have a burning rate as fast as 4198 to as slow as 4064. The data sheets would say, "Use data for 3031", 0r "4064", depending on the particular lot.
My best guess is 4895 came out about 1937 withthe rest of the IMR powder expressly for use in the M-1 garand and was not made into a cannister grade for handloaders until maybe 1946 through 1948. In the meantime, Hodgden bought up the entire supply of milsurp 4895 in it's various lots and blended it all into one homogenous lot. I'm also of the thought that the Lyman data in #44 was based on that milsurp batch blended up by Hodgden.
Paul B.
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| Posted: Mon Jul 20th, 2009 08:57 PM |
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Rooster
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I just picked-up two eight # kegs of RG 4895 Paul ... I hear ya.
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"Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum" Translated: "If You Want Peace - Prepare For War."
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Doug B.
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I will mix when I get a new can. More often than not it is just a VERY little i have left anyway.
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