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Charley
Administrator
| Joined: | 9 September 2005 |
| Location: | San Antonio, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 2299 |
| Photo: | | | Are you a handloader?: | Yes | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | I load everything! |
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Posted: 18 December 2007 02:11 PM |
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Had a case here early Monday morning. Head on collision, three badly hurt in one vehicle, driver of the other vehicle hur (and drunk!)
Passenger in first vehicle was presumed dead by the EMTs, covered with a sheet,. and left for the ME's office to come and pronounce her. ME arrives about 1 1/2 hours later, and finds she is alive. She ended up taking over 2 hours after the accident to be transported, and did finally die of her injuries about 10 hours later.
SAPD officer at the scene, speaking annonomously, claimed officers told the EMTs at the scene at least twice that the victim was still breathing, and were ignored.
Obviously, a big can of worms opened. She might have died regardless of timely emergency care, but laying in subfreezing temps for two hours pretty obviously didn't help, either.
What do you experienced folks think? Did the local EMS screw the pooch, or is it just one of those strange things that sometimes happen, no matter how well trained and prepared you are?
____________________
"Barack, the Magic Negro, lived in DC,
"The LA Times they called him that,
'cause he's not authentic like me..." Al Sharpton
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crazy2medic
addicted handloader
| Joined: | 16 March 2006 |
| Location: | Watauga, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 314 |
| Photo: | | | Are you a handloader?: | Yes | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | small bore rifle |
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Posted: 18 December 2007 06:52 PM |
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| depends on how many rescuers were available, could have been they were forced to do triage and take those they knew they could save first! without knowing all the circumstances it would really be wrong to judge, as a whole our ems systems in the United State works better than anywhere else in the world! on major trauma the two rules followed is the platinum ten(10 minutes from accident to transport) and the golden hour(1 hour from accident to surgeon) at first glance seems they really screwed up but without all the facts i'd be guessing! in our system cardiac arrest secondary to blunt force trauma we don't work them because they have a less than 1% chance at survival! she obviously had cardiac output or she wouldn't have still beeen breathing!
____________________
80 million armed americans! now that's peace of mind!
Teach the children quietly, for someday sons and daughters will rise up and fight while we stood still!
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Charley
Administrator
| Joined: | 9 September 2005 |
| Location: | San Antonio, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 2299 |
| Photo: | | | Are you a handloader?: | Yes | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | I load everything! |
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Posted: 18 December 2007 10:36 PM |
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As i understand it, there were four EMTs and two ambulances on the scene. Triage doesn't realy seem like a factor. SAFD first responders are qualified EMTs, as well, i suspect there were at least a couple more on the scene.
Bad juju, whatever happened.
____________________
"Barack, the Magic Negro, lived in DC,
"The LA Times they called him that,
'cause he's not authentic like me..." Al Sharpton
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bea175
Board Founder
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Posted: 19 December 2007 01:42 AM |
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They screwed up bad , by not checking this lady closer after being informed she was still breathing. If it gets to the courts they don't have a leg to stand on. They better be consulting council as i write this if this event has gotten back to her family. Malpractice pure and simple .
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crazy2medic
addicted handloader
| Joined: | 16 March 2006 |
| Location: | Watauga, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 314 |
| Photo: | | | Are you a handloader?: | Yes | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | small bore rifle |
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Posted: 19 December 2007 12:02 PM |
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| Okay where were the paramedics? surely san antonio has paramedics? with 3 severely injured people and a one walking wounded that would require at least 7 rescuers, how far out from the city were they? a Texas certified paramedic can call somebody dead (I know I've done it too many times) but an EMT cannot unless they are decomposing, decapitated, rigor mortis, or dependent lividity. so once again they may have stepped way outside their training level, so many unanswered questions, but I'll keep my eyes open for it to show up in trade journals, when did this take place?
____________________
80 million armed americans! now that's peace of mind!
Teach the children quietly, for someday sons and daughters will rise up and fight while we stood still!
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Charley
Administrator
| Joined: | 9 September 2005 |
| Location: | San Antonio, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 2299 |
| Photo: | | | Are you a handloader?: | Yes | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | I load everything! |
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Posted: 19 December 2007 12:30 PM |
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Happened early (4:30 AM) Monday morning. As I understand things, it has been a big topic on boards frequented by first responders. CNN picked it up, too, and went national with the story.
A witness is reported today as saying she (the victim) had major head trauma, including what sounds like a very large depressed skull fracture.
The SAFD Fire Chief, whose department Emergency Services falls under didn't help. At a press conference, he stated "we're not going to appologize. WE weren't driving the car that hit them". Strictly speaking, of course, true, but sure did piss off a whole bunch of people. He should have said the standard stuff..."The incident is under investigation...vey tragic circumstnces...", and thenSTFU.
Last edited on 19 December 2007 12:34 PM by Charley
____________________
"Barack, the Magic Negro, lived in DC,
"The LA Times they called him that,
'cause he's not authentic like me..." Al Sharpton
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crazy2medic
addicted handloader
| Joined: | 16 March 2006 |
| Location: | Watauga, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 314 |
| Photo: | | | Are you a handloader?: | Yes | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | small bore rifle |
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Posted: 19 December 2007 01:48 PM |
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yea, chief screw up on that! until all the facts are known never tell the press anything! 4 rescuers to 4 victims would require triage! one emt or one paramedic cannot handle a severely injured person by themselves, if she had a severe depressed skull fx then she may have be having kussmaul respirations (fish breathing) which is what happens when the higher functions are gone and just the base brain functions haven't died yet! why did it take so long for her to be transported? were the guys on the scene calling for help? just not enough info!
I'll try to get additional info from a web site that caters to fire and ems
____________________
80 million armed americans! now that's peace of mind!
Teach the children quietly, for someday sons and daughters will rise up and fight while we stood still!
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bea175
Board Founder
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Posted: 19 December 2007 03:09 PM |
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| The Autopsy will tell the whole story.
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hivoltfl
HB Life Member
| Joined: | 10 January 2007 |
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| Posts: | 128 |
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Posted: 22 December 2007 03:14 PM |
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Not nough facts here, but having spent some time on a fire department rescue squad I would be willing to bet that some triage had taken place and best efforts were aimed at those that could be helped and had the chance for survival, Triage is a process thats done quickly at an accident scene and not always without error, I refuse to pass judgement or make a second guess at what was done, the way it was done, without having been there, my 2 cents.
Rick
Last edited on 22 December 2007 03:15 PM by hivoltfl
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