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Bluedot
HB Full Member
| Joined: | 11 April 2007 |
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Posted: 23 December 2007 05:03 AM |
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The Veterans Disarmament Act passed the Senate and the House
-- both times WITHOUT A RECORDED VOTE. That is, the bill
passed by Unanimous Consent, and was then transmitted to the White House.
The Veterans Disarmament Act has passed with the help of the NRA! The NRA has totally failed us here ! If I was considering which PRO-Gun organization to join now, It would not be the NRA! Wayne LaPierre and Chris Cox have let us down and they need to go! They have sold out to Chuck Schumer and we have let them do it!
The bill is being praised by the National Rifle Association and the Brady Campaign. What the bill does is to lock in -- statutorily -huge numbers of additional law-abiding Americans who will now be denied the right to own a firearm.
The efforts begun during the Clinton Presidency to disarm battle-scarred veterans -- promoted by the Brady Anti-Gun Campaign -- is illegal and morally reprehensible but Section 101(c)(1)(C) of this bill, HR 2640, would rubber-stamp those illegal actions. Over 140,000 law-abiding veterans would be statutorily barred from possessing firearms.
Organizations opposing this terrible legislation included The American Legion, Gun Owners of America and The Order of The Purple Heart!
If you are asked by new shooters if they should join the NRA, say "NO!!" Tell them to join the Gun Owners of America or any other Pro-Gun organization.
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wolfkill
Handloading Master
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Posted: 23 December 2007 08:10 AM |
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I heard Wayne LaPierre himself say they had hijacked the bill and tweaked it to do exactly the opposite.
He says the bill allows an appeal process for those already denied and that had they not done so those vets would never get a chance to appeal.
What's the scoop the rest of you have heard?
____________________
Notice to womenfolk visiting my cabin...the following comments will be ignored:
"There's mice living in my mattress."
"The outhouse is full."
"I smell something dead under the cabin."
http://buckmountainchateau.com
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wheezengeezer
addicted handloader
| Joined: | 16 July 2007 |
| Location: | Jeddediah Jones Swamp, Kansas USA |
| Posts: | 708 |
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Posted: 23 December 2007 12:29 PM |
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Senate Passes NICS Improvement Act After months of careful negotiation, pro-gun legislation was passed through Congress today. The National Rifle Association (NRA) worked closely with Senator Tom Coburn (R-Okla.) to address his concerns regarding H.R. 2640, the National Instant Check System (NICS) Improvement Act. These changes make a good bill even better. The end product is a win for American gun owners.
The NICS Improvement Act does the following: - Permanently prohibits the FBI from charging a "user fee" for NICS checks.
- Requires all federal agencies that impose mental health adjudications or commitments to provide a process for "relief from disabilities." Extreme anti-gun groups like the Violence Policy Center and Coalition to Stop Gun Violence have expressed "strong concerns" over this aspect of the bill-surely a sign that it represents progress for gun ownership rights.
- Prevents reporting of mental adjudications or commitments by federal agencies when those adjudications or commitments have been removed.
- Requires removal of expired, incorrect or otherwise irrelevant records. Today, totally innocent people (e.g., individuals with arrest records, who were never convicted of the crime charged) are sometimes subject to delayed or denied firearm purchases because of incomplete records in the system.
- Provides a process of error correction if a person is inappropriately committed or declared incompetent by a federal agency. The individual would have an opportunity to correct the error-either through the agency or in court.
- Prevents use of federal "adjudications" that consist only of medical diagnoses without findings that the people involved are dangerous or mentally incompetent. This would ensure that purely medical records are never used in NICS. Gun ownership rights would only be lost as a result of a finding that the person is a danger to themselves or others, or lacks the capacity to manage his own affairs.
- Improves the accuracy and completeness of NICS by requiring federal agencies and participating states to provide relevant records to the FBI. For instance, it would give states an incentive to report those who were adjudicated by a court to be "mentally defective," a danger to themselves, a danger to others or suicidal.
- Requires a Government Accountability Office audit of past NICS improvement spending.
The bill includes significant changes from the version that previously passed the House, including:
Requires incorrect or outdated records to be purged from the system within 30 days after the Attorney General learns of the need for correction. Requires agencies to create "relief from disabilities" programs within 120 days, to prevent bureaucratic foot-dragging. Provides that if a person applies for relief from disabilities and the agency fails to act on the application within a year-for any reason, including lack of funds-the applicant can seek immediate review of his application in federal court. Allows awards of attorney's fees to applicants who successfully challenge a federal agency's denial of relief in court. Requires that federal agencies notify all people being subjected to a mental health "adjudication" or commitment process about the consequences to their firearm ownership rights, and the availability of future relief. Earmarks 3-10% of federal implementation grants for use in operating state "relief from disabilities" programs. Elimination of all references to Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives regulations defining adjudications, commitments, or determinations related to Americans' mental health. Instead, the bill uses terms previously adopted by the Congress
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I was raised in the 50's on gunpowder and jackrabbits.salt and pepper wooda made'em taste better
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3006 user
Gold Sponsor
| Joined: | 30 July 2007 |
| Location: | Denver Area, Colorado USA |
| Posts: | 334 |
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Posted: 23 December 2007 02:30 PM |
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I don't believe that folks should be too quick to condemn the NRA without checking the facts completely. The other pro-gun organizations are, for the most part, looking out for the interests of gun owners, but none have the clout of the NRA. I have talked with people who have a mad on with the NRA for some perceived omission, but as you know, not all pro-gun legislation can be passed, no matter how hard we want it to be. When dealing with Congress, compromises must be made, and anyone who thinks otherwise is living in a dream world. We should all pull together and support the pro gun organization of our choice without bad mouthing another without all the info. My organization happens to be the NRA, of which I am an Endowment member.
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Dirtkicker
addicted handloader
| Joined: | 3 September 2007 |
| Location: | High Plains |
| Posts: | 351 |
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Posted: 23 December 2007 03:03 PM |
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| I read wheezengeezer's post describing this legislation. Unless I'm missing something, I don't see the big problem. If someone could enlighten me about what I am missing I would appreciate it.
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3006 user
Gold Sponsor
| Joined: | 30 July 2007 |
| Location: | Denver Area, Colorado USA |
| Posts: | 334 |
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Posted: 23 December 2007 03:48 PM |
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Dirtkicker wrote: I read wheezengeezer's post describing this legislation. Unless I'm missing something, I don't see the big problem. If someone could enlighten me about what I am missing I would appreciate it.
I was referring to the original posting. Sorry for the confusion, I should have specified that .
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wolfkill
Handloading Master
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Posted: 23 December 2007 05:16 PM |
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There has to be some down side to this bill. The internet is buzzing with fellow brother in arms pissed.
Seems like many of the laws they pass may have good intentions but...
____________________
Notice to womenfolk visiting my cabin...the following comments will be ignored:
"There's mice living in my mattress."
"The outhouse is full."
"I smell something dead under the cabin."
http://buckmountainchateau.com
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3006 user
Gold Sponsor
| Joined: | 30 July 2007 |
| Location: | Denver Area, Colorado USA |
| Posts: | 334 |
| Photo: | | | Are you a handloader?: | Yes | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | I load everything! |
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Posted: 23 December 2007 05:28 PM |
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| This is my last comment on this subject: Some people would bitch if they had their nuts caught in a gold vise!
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wolfkill
Handloading Master
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Posted: 23 December 2007 05:40 PM |
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Yes...but that would hurt nonetheless 
____________________
Notice to womenfolk visiting my cabin...the following comments will be ignored:
"There's mice living in my mattress."
"The outhouse is full."
"I smell something dead under the cabin."
http://buckmountainchateau.com
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Charley
Administrator
| Joined: | 9 September 2005 |
| Location: | San Antonio, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 2299 |
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Posted: 23 December 2007 09:59 PM |
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| Same cut and paste on almost every board I visit. Inaccuracies aside, you ain't Paul Revere. You're not even William Dawes.
____________________
"Barack, the Magic Negro, lived in DC,
"The LA Times they called him that,
'cause he's not authentic like me..." Al Sharpton
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Dirtkicker
addicted handloader
| Joined: | 3 September 2007 |
| Location: | High Plains |
| Posts: | 351 |
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Posted: 23 December 2007 11:25 PM |
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I've been waiting for "Bluedot" or anyone else to explain to me how the NRA has "stabbed" veterans regarding this legislation. I even re-read wheezengeezer's post outlining the legislation and still can't understand why this is such a Bad Thing. Seems to me it addressed some problems with earlier forms of the same legislation, trying to make it fairer and more responsive to correcting possible abuses.
I notice that "Bluedot" has only two posts. Nothing wrong with that I guess. But it does seem pretty angry. I can't help but wonder if "Bluedot" didn't have a head of steam up about the NRA before he even posted. Certainly has all the earmarks.
I'm a Lifer in NRA. It's not a perfect organization. None of them are. But for someone to come on here and start badmouthing it without much rationale (it seems to me) to back it up makes me question their motives.
I'm going to stick with the NRA, and hope others do as well. I still think it's the best game in town.
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Bluedot
HB Full Member
| Joined: | 11 April 2007 |
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Posted: 24 December 2007 12:01 AM |
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LaPierre is the one who was hijacked!
It now allows almost anyone to put a vet on the list but allows him to appeal!!!!1
Rotten to the core!!!!
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Bluedot
HB Full Member
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Posted: 24 December 2007 12:03 AM |
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| Yes, and in this case, the NRA gave up the Vets in their compromise!!!1
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Bluedot
HB Full Member
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Posted: 24 December 2007 12:06 AM |
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If you read GOA info all along you would have read:
What the bill does is to lock in -- statutorily -- huge
numbers of additional law-abiding Americans who will now be denied
the right to own a firearm.
And then it "graciously" allows these newly disarmed Americans to
spend tens of thousands of dollars for a long-shot chance to regain
the gun rights this very bill takes away from them.
More to the point, what minimal gains were granted by the "right
hand" are taken away by the "left." Section 105 provides
a process
for some Americans diagnosed with so-called mental disabilities to
get their rights restored in the state where they live. But then, in
subsection (a)(2), the bill stipulates that such relief may occur
only if "the person will not be likely to act in a manner dangerous
to public safety and that the GRANTING OF THE RELIEF WOULD NOT BE
CONTRARY TO THE PUBLIC INTEREST." (Emphasis added.)
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Dirtkicker
addicted handloader
| Joined: | 3 September 2007 |
| Location: | High Plains |
| Posts: | 351 |
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Posted: 24 December 2007 12:49 AM |
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Bluedot wrote:
What the bill does is to lock in -- statutorily -- huge
numbers of additional law-abiding Americans who will now be denied
the right to own a firearm.
What are the actual numbers here? And WHO exactly are the "law-abiding Americans" who are denied their firearms rights?
Please be as specific and accurate as you can. No emotional language, please. Just facts. I am trying to understand your position here and everytime you use loaded language like "graciously" you throw me off track.
You say "anyone" can put someone on this list. Is this true? Who is "anyone"?
Thanks for coming back , Bluedot, and adding some material, but I am still confused. Looking forward to getting it straightened out in my own mind. Thanks!
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Bluedot
HB Full Member
| Joined: | 11 April 2007 |
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Posted: 24 December 2007 03:13 AM |
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DIrtkicker, I have been a member and supporter of the NRA for nearly 40 years!
Whether I post in YOUR forum has nothing to do with the way the ball bounces and it is pretty clear that the powers that be in the NRA have got to believing that they are GOD. I am a 23 Year Military Veteran and resent the way these people and the Clinton folks have attacked us! Other PRO organizations are extremely dedicated and if you atttach yourself to only one, then you will sink like the rest or the believers! I encourage NON MEMBERSHIP in the NRA for new kids now!
NRA leaders have been dumped before!
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wheezengeezer
addicted handloader
| Joined: | 16 July 2007 |
| Location: | Jeddediah Jones Swamp, Kansas USA |
| Posts: | 708 |
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Posted: 24 December 2007 06:40 AM |
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my last post was an exact cut and paste from an e-mail from the NRA.it may be one sided.i do know that the NRA has has done MORE in my interests than the GOA ever will.the NRA lobbies,the GOA can only WHINE
____________________
I was raised in the 50's on gunpowder and jackrabbits.salt and pepper wooda made'em taste better
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Dirtkicker
addicted handloader
| Joined: | 3 September 2007 |
| Location: | High Plains |
| Posts: | 351 |
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Posted: 24 December 2007 03:13 PM |
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Here's an article by Josh Sugarman— a rabid antigun guy...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/josh-sugarmann/trojan-horse-gun-control_b_77754.html
Hell, if he hates this bill so much it can't be all that bad!
The article did clear up some questions I had. Much better than "Bluedot" who didn't address a single one of my questions.
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wheezengeezer
addicted handloader
| Joined: | 16 July 2007 |
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| Posts: | 708 |
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Posted: 24 December 2007 03:52 PM |
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dirtkicker,that was a good link.as of yet i dont see much of anything i dont like.however allowing this to make a split in gun owners will be more damaging than this bill ever will be.THE NRA IS THE ONLY REASON WE OWN GUNS TODAY!!! i am not saying to ignore the GOA,i do listen to them as well.they are a watchdog.it is best to pay attention,but sometimes they are just barking.
____________________
I was raised in the 50's on gunpowder and jackrabbits.salt and pepper wooda made'em taste better
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Dirtkicker
addicted handloader
| Joined: | 3 September 2007 |
| Location: | High Plains |
| Posts: | 351 |
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Posted: 24 December 2007 04:36 PM |
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Thanks, WG'er. I thought it was illuminating.
I couldn't agree more that we have to TRY to stick together. Most of us are pretty independent-minded, and that makes it hard, if not impossible.
I also agree that without the NRA we wouldn't have our guns today.
People who go on the gun boards and fulminate against the NRA— and then fail to back up their position— have no credibility with me. Urging people NOT to join the NRA is simply shooting yourself in the foot.
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