The Handloaders Bench Home
Home Search search Menu menu Not logged in - Login | Register
The Handloaders Bench > Rifles > Rimfires > Internal ballistics

Attention: Due to an increase in spammers all new members start out as probationary members. You will only be able to start a welcome post in the welcome new members forum. You can reply to all other posts. Once you have reached 5 posts you will be a full member and can start topics. We apologize for the inconvenience but spammers are becoming a real problem. We are also experiencing problems with new members receiving activation emails. We are manually activating new members. Please be patient with us. We will activate your membership within 24 hours of registration. People planning to register for membership with The Handloaders Bench. We had to block gmail addresses from registering here for our member’s security and protection, because spam bots have been using gmail a lot to cause problems. You can use a free hotmail or yahoo address to register and receive the activation email. After your membership has been activated, you will be able to change your email back to your gmail address in your account under the menu button at the top of the forum. We are sorry for any inconvenience this might cause. HB Admin

Internal ballistics
 Moderated by: The_Mountaineer, DesertMarine, -6
 New Topic   Reply   Printer Friendly 
 Rate Topic 
AuthorPost
 Posted: Mon Jun 4th, 2007 09:25 PM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
1st Post
pisces
HB Full Member


Joined: Tue May 22nd, 2007
Location: West Wales, UK, United Kingdom
Posts: 4
Photo: 
Are you a handloader?: No
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: I shoot factory ammo
My favorite chambering is:: 
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

After about 250 shots my 17hmr barrel has built up a layer of carbon fouling, that can be seen when viewed from the breech,  just after the leade.

Normally, this is when I use a wetted bronze brush to remove the fouling because it is widely attributed as being the cause of poor grouping due to bullet swaging.

However, my question is: If the bullet is swaged down by this restriction does the bullet expand further down the barrel so negating the swaging effect?

 

 

:beer:

 


 Posted: Mon Jun 4th, 2007 10:26 PM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
2nd Post
72coupe
HB certified Master Handloading and Ballistics advisor


Joined: Sun Jun 11th, 2006
Location: Iowa Park, Texas USA
Posts: 2505
Photo: 
Are you a handloader?: 
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: 
My favorite chambering is:: 
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

I haven't seen any research on it but I doubt it considering the pressure that 17 HMR works at.



____________________
Reloader since 1969.


 Posted: Mon Jun 4th, 2007 10:31 PM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
3rd Post
ghrit
Moderator


Joined: Fri Apr 14th, 2006
Location: Endless Mountains, Pennsylvania USA
Posts: 1557
Photo: 
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: none
My favorite chambering is:: 2-3/4 dram equiv, 1 OZ, 7-1/2 trap
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

pisces wrote: After about 250 shots my 17hmr barrel has built up a layer of carbon fouling, that can be seen when viewed from the breech,  just after the leade.

Normally, this is when I use a wetted bronze brush to remove the fouling because it is widely attributed as being the cause of poor grouping due to bullet swaging.

However, my question is: If the bullet is swaged down by this restriction does the bullet expand further down the barrel so negating the swaging effect?

 

 

:beer:

 
I don't think the slug will expand again.  The swaging simply forces the bullet into the grooves and effectively seals the bore, rather than depending on obturation.  I think (but do not know) that any leading after the leade is simply hot lead smeared off the tail of the slug (or off the sides of the ogive, if jacketed).  For a guess, I'd say watch the groups, and don't bother getting all het up until they open up.  Caveat:  If your powder is the least bit hygroscopic, ignore that last, and clean every time out.  :confused:



____________________
-Remote locations are cheap insurance.
-There are two kinds of ships: Submarines and targets


 Posted: Tue Jun 5th, 2007 02:37 PM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
4th Post
pisces
HB Full Member


Joined: Tue May 22nd, 2007
Location: West Wales, UK, United Kingdom
Posts: 4
Photo: 
Are you a handloader?: No
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: I shoot factory ammo
My favorite chambering is:: 
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

Thanks for the info'.

Just received an e-mail from Anschutz saying much the same.

:thumbs:

 

 

 

 


 Posted: Thu Jun 7th, 2007 01:55 PM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
5th Post
72coupe
HB certified Master Handloading and Ballistics advisor


Joined: Sun Jun 11th, 2006
Location: Iowa Park, Texas USA
Posts: 2505
Photo: 
Are you a handloader?: 
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: 
My favorite chambering is:: 
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

I bought a new Kimber Model 82 Government from CMP. It has a similar problem in that it would lead up after about 60 shots to the point where the groups would open up to 2 feet or more. You could see a lump of lead build up 4 inches in front of the chamber. I used an Outers Foul Out III to remove it the 1st time but after that I used a worn out bore brush wrapped in a strand pulled from a copper pot scrubber. After a few thousand rounds (normal break in I guess) the problem dissappeared.



____________________
Reloader since 1969.


 Posted: Thu Jun 7th, 2007 10:20 PM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
6th Post
ghrit
Moderator


Joined: Fri Apr 14th, 2006
Location: Endless Mountains, Pennsylvania USA
Posts: 1557
Photo: 
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: none
My favorite chambering is:: 2-3/4 dram equiv, 1 OZ, 7-1/2 trap
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

I have not had that problem with my M-82.  That said, I don't have 1000 rounds thru it yet, maybe not even half that.  But DAMN it is accurate, even with WalMart low ball ammo.



____________________
-Remote locations are cheap insurance.
-There are two kinds of ships: Submarines and targets


 Posted: Mon Jul 9th, 2007 06:20 PM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
7th Post
pisces
HB Full Member


Joined: Tue May 22nd, 2007
Location: West Wales, UK, United Kingdom
Posts: 4
Photo: 
Are you a handloader?: No
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: I shoot factory ammo
My favorite chambering is:: 
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

72coupe wrote: I bought a new Kimber Model 82 Government from CMP. It has a similar problem in that it would lead up after about 60 shots to the point where the groups would open up to 2 feet or more. You could see a lump of lead build up 4 inches in front of the chamber. I used an Outers Foul Out III to remove it the 1st time but after that I used a worn out bore brush wrapped in a strand pulled from a copper pot scrubber. After a few thousand rounds (normal break in I guess) the problem dissappeared.

I am finding the same.

After 1,600 rounds the leade fouling is gradually becoming less of a problem


 Posted: Mon Jul 9th, 2007 06:28 PM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
8th Post
72coupe
HB certified Master Handloading and Ballistics advisor


Joined: Sun Jun 11th, 2006
Location: Iowa Park, Texas USA
Posts: 2505
Photo: 
Are you a handloader?: 
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: 
My favorite chambering is:: 
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

Aggravating none the less!



____________________
Reloader since 1969.


 Current time is 10:16 AM
The Handloaders Bench > Rifles > Rimfires > Internal ballistics
 Top

UltraBB 1.17 Copyright © 2007-2008 Data 1 Systems
Page processed in 0.1920 seconds (18% database + 82% PHP). 28 queries executed.