| Posted: Sun Nov 15th, 2009 07:08 PM |
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J.Fish
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I need some ideas as to my problem. I recently bought a 1891 Arg Mauser. The receipt shows it chambered for 7.65 x 53. All the websites and books I have looked at show it chambered for 7.65 x 53. I made sure the ammo I bought is stamped 7.65 x53. Yet when I went to go shoot, it simply would not chamber. Maybe its been rechambered? If so, how would I check without buying differnt ammo and trying them?
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| Posted: Sun Nov 15th, 2009 09:24 PM |
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Charley
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The M91s I've seen or loaded for seem to have very tight chambers. I've got an M1909 carbine that swallows anything marked 7.65x53, , but a M91 that won't. Probably a very minimum spec'd chamber.
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| Posted: Mon Nov 16th, 2009 03:40 PM |
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BigBill
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I have the same problem with my arg carbine i can't get the rounds to chamber too. I have no clue as to whats wrong with it too.
I have one of the Ye Olde Gun Shop in LA cut down 91's were they actually cut down the long barreled rifles and made them into carbines so they would sell in our market in the 60's. The swept back bolt is the key its one of these cut downs. Now i'm not sure if they twisted the receiver some how too thats why it won't chamber the rounds.
I have tried 308win, 7,5mm french, 30-06 in it and its shallow to these rounds(chamber). I have no clue as to what caliber it is.
I'm thinking of rebarreling it so i can shoot it but i'm not sure what size the barrel threads are or what barrel will interchange with it. Is it a small ring or a large ring mauser?
Last edited on Mon Nov 16th, 2009 03:44 PM by BigBill
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| Posted: Mon Nov 16th, 2009 06:54 PM |
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Bigdog57
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An Argie '91 is a small ring Mauser - but until you get the barrel off, you won't know just what you have to work with. It shouldn't take a good smith much effort or cost to remove the barrel and check it out - he can then advise you to the proper course of action. He can also check the chamber and tell you just what it's caliber really is.
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| Posted: Mon Nov 16th, 2009 08:15 PM |
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J.Fish
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Thanks for the replies. By the looks of the rifle, it must have been someones hunting rifle in a prior life. Just for grins, I took a .308 bullet and tried to push it down the chamber. It looks like it would fit. I'm now hoping maybe it was chambered for 308 winchester. would make getting ammo and brass easier.
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| Posted: Mon Nov 16th, 2009 10:01 PM |
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Charley
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Making a chamber cast isn't difficult. I'd suggest that before pulling the barrel. If the barrel is original, about the only thing it could be rechambered to cheaply (assuming the importer did it) is .30/06, or actualy .31/06.
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| Posted: Tue Nov 17th, 2009 12:38 PM |
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Gutshot
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Do a chamber cast with parafin wax. Just put a patch in the barrel just forward of the chamber and pour the heated wax into the chamber and let cool. Take a cleaning rod and gently remove the casting by inserting rod from the muzzle end.
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| Posted: Sat Nov 21st, 2009 10:20 PM |
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OldStuffer
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Yep, chamber cast and then measurements, figure out what ya have there.
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| Posted: Mon Nov 23rd, 2009 02:10 AM |
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smacks
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I would do a chamber cast. If it is a 308 I would not fire full factory loads.
Use starting to medium hand loads or managed recoil.
Of course it is your rifle and your face, not being a smart a---, but just had to say it.
I have found some very hot loads in Factory 308 lately in a certain brand made across the big pond. 2 to 3 grain variation. I took the lowest load and reduced by 2 grains and reloaded with same powder. Still feels strong enough.
I also found the same thing in some factory 7.65x53 loads. threw that powder away and used my own powder.
My 68 year old face hasn't changed much over the years except for normal ware, don't see no need to begin now. smacks
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| Posted: Tue Nov 24th, 2009 12:14 AM |
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wheezengeezer
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A good chamber cast using cerrosafe,done by a guhsmith and slugging the barrel will tell you exactly what you have.
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| Posted: Tue Nov 24th, 2009 02:17 AM |
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Charley
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Can't recall ever seeing a '91 rebarreled to something else. About 15 years back Century rechambered a bunch of M1909s in 7.65x53 to ".30/06"...of course, they were actually .31/06s and most that I saw wouldn't shoot for s**t with undersized bullets. I worked for a couple of months with one for a co worker, trying to outstubborn it, but even with .312 bullets accuracy was poor at best. I rebarreled it to .22/250, but he didn't like the barrel I choose (heavy barrel), so I bought the action from him and kept it.
I'd be very surprised if the M1891 you have is anything but a very short 7.65x53.
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| Posted: Tue Nov 24th, 2009 01:40 PM |
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J.Fish
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If its a short 7.65x53, how would I get it to chamber? Pull bullets and then trim them down? I'm bound and determined to get this rifle shooting. If it costs extra money, then it'll just take a llil bit extra for funding
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| Posted: Fri Dec 11th, 2009 10:39 PM |
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J.Fish
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Confirmed with a friend who had the same problem. His turned out to be a 308 Win. I chambered a 308 in it and fits like a glove. Picked up some cheap 308's for starters. If it shows potential I will get some brass for it. I have some Hornady 150 grain boattails and access to a set of dies. Looks like I'm going to have some fun.
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| Posted: Mon Dec 21st, 2009 07:51 PM |
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Drygulch
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J.Fish wrote: Confirmed with a friend who had the same problem. His turned out to be a 308 Win. I chambered a 308 in it and fits like a glove. Picked up some cheap 308's for starters. If it shows potential I will get some brass for it. I have some Hornady 150 grain boattails and access to a set of dies. Looks like I'm going to have some fun.
Boy, this has captured my interest! I would't fire any live ammo in an un-known chamber.The 308 case will fit since it is shorter. I would fireform the case (no bullet) and match it with a 308 and Argy round. I have the 1891 Engineer carbine, and no problems. I cut down 8 mm brass since it is a lot shorter than 30-06. Again, this irifle will not take a high pressure load like the 308, so I handload with caution within the data in the manuals. Sometimes I reduce the powder by two grains since this carbine is so light. Accuracy is fair,even with .308 bullets.
Rod!
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| Posted: Mon Dec 28th, 2009 01:26 PM |
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J.Fish
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Shot the mauser the day after xmas. Largest group was 1 1/2" at 50 yards and wasnt even trying for groups. Heading to the range on saturday and will set up properly for sighting in. Hopefully I will have some better bullets rather than what I was using. My dad was a little jealous that I had picked it up for only $100. Guess I'm going try and find him one soon enough.
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| Posted: Mon Dec 28th, 2009 05:36 PM |
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Drygulch
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Drygulch wrote: J.Fish wrote: Confirmed with a friend who had the same problem. His turned out to be a 308 Win. I chambered a 308 in it and fits like a glove. Picked up some cheap 308's for starters. If it shows potential I will get some brass for it. I have some Hornady 150 grain boattails and access to a set of dies. Looks like I'm going to have some fun.
Boy, this has captured my interest! I would't fire any live ammo in an un-known chamber.The 308 case will fit since it is shorter. I would fireform the case (no bullet) and match it with a 308 and Argy round. I have the 1891 Engineer carbine, and no problems. I cut down 8 mm brass since it is a lot shorter than 30-06. Again, this irifle will not take a high pressure load like the 308, so I handload with caution within the data in the manuals. Sometimes I reduce the powder by two grains since this carbine is so light. Accuracy is fair,even with .308 bullets.
Rod!
I STAND CORRECTED ! The 308 case should not chamber due to the dimensions of the case just behind the shoulder being differant,ie; .308=.450", Argentine=.430". Anyway, the Argy round is a handloaders dream! For target work, I downloaded a Hornady 85 grain JHP (.312) with 16 grains of 4759 .Even milder was a 95(314) LFT bullet with 5.0 gr of bullseye. ROD!
Last edited on Mon Dec 28th, 2009 05:36 PM by Drygulch
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J.Fish
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went to Cabelas and found some Win. 147 grn 7.62 Nato ammo for cheap. then went to the range today. First target was at 50yards. Groups were under $.25 diameter. fell in love with the gun. set target up at 100yards. my shoulder was ground to lunch meat by then. Could not place groups. Howver, my dad took a few shots with it and was putting the rounds pretty much on top of each other. Can't wait to set my dies up and reload for this gun.
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| Posted: Thu Jan 21st, 2010 01:17 AM |
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BigBill
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I found out today that my 91 is in 7,65x53. The surplus ammo that i have is not quality surplus ammo. It chambers but its tight. I need to get some new ammo for it next. Its a good looking carbine.
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| Posted: Sat Jan 23rd, 2010 05:13 AM |
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Mauser Guy
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J. Fish
I own several M91 Mausers because of the beautiful machine work and finish on them. The M91s were all originally chambered in 7.65 X 53. I own one that I bought at a gun show that was expertly rebarrelled to 7 X 57. I found out the same way when I tried to shoot it. I tried all the shells in my shop until the 7mm seemed to fit. Then I fireformed a 7mm case in the chamber without a bullet, and that was what it was. I handload for the rifle and keep the loads mild to medium because of the two lug design. I don't want to blow it up. The right way to measure a chamber is to cast cerrosafe and then measure the cast for the correct cartridge. You can get cerrosafe from Midway or Brownells. The M91s have been around for a long time, and the number of modifications done to them is almost infinite. Good shooting.
Mauser Guy
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| Posted: Sat Jan 23rd, 2010 05:08 PM |
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BigBill
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We took a 7,65x53 surplus bullet apart and fired the berdan primer. Then we cut a screwdriver slot on the case rim and put some fine lapping compound on the empty brass case. Then i lightly lapped the chamber. It is for sure a 7,65x53 arg chamber.
I found out on another forum that the brand of surplus ammo that i have is not of a quality ammo. We seen were the case dimentions are off on the tapered part of the brass its a tad too long. I just ordered 200rds of new brass so we can change the surplus ammo over to new brass.Attachment: 91 arg carbine.jpg (Downloaded 17 times) Last edited on Sat Jan 23rd, 2010 05:37 PM by BigBill
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