| Posted: Sun Nov 15th, 2009 09:51 PM |
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miestro_jerry
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How many of you prefer the AR based M16/M4 versus the AK type rifles, so that would be the AK47/AK74?
Thanks,
Jerry
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| Posted: Mon Nov 16th, 2009 12:08 AM |
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Thecyberguy
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The each have advantages. The AR/M16/M4 has a smaller lighter cartridge, so I guess being an old fart...I could carry more of them than the 7.62x39.
Have a good 'un, GuyLast edited on Mon Nov 16th, 2009 12:53 AM by Thecyberguy
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| Posted: Mon Nov 16th, 2009 12:09 AM |
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Thecyberguy
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That would be M16....typing in the dark and not looking at what I did until I click "reply"
Turned on the light and put my glasses on....LOL
I have never shot an AR/M4.
I have an AK 47 and an SKS and a mini 30 that all shoot the 7.62x39.
I have a mini14 that shoots the .223. I was told the military liked the 5.56 because the troops could carry more rounds than some of the other types of ammo.
But, I heard that there were some "knock down" issues in the current theater with the smaller lighter bullets in close contact vs. the heavier 30 cal from the AK's.
Close contact....give me a short 12 ga. with buckshot.....
Have a good 'un, Guy
Last edited on Mon Nov 16th, 2009 12:59 AM by Thecyberguy
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I am STILL an angry gun owner.....and the time to vote is coming!!!!!
Support our troops.....they are someone's kids.
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| Posted: Mon Nov 16th, 2009 01:38 AM |
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miestro_jerry
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I have handled an AK74, it uses a 5.45 x 39 cartridge. Modernization has not changed the reliability of the weapon. But I only handled it for two mags of ammo and maybe 30 minutes additional time. I think only the Russians use them in their army, but it was used in Afghanistan.
Stoner and Kalashnikov were visionaires.
Jerry
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| Posted: Mon Nov 16th, 2009 07:02 PM |
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Bigdog57
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I have shot the original M16 (back in USAF bootcamp in '76), and the AK47 and AK74 (full auto versions) more recently. The AK74 is quite a nice shooter! Puts the AK47 to shame. But being 'old school', I like a larger bullet. 
My own .5.56X45 rifle is the Bushmaster M17S Bullpup - I'm drawn to the odder designs, and it's AR18-based bolt and gas system are far more reliable in a dirty envoronment than the AR15. The bolt rides on two stainless rods, with a good space either side to let dirt fall away. Sadly, this design fell from the public eye when the big AR15 craze took off.
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| Posted: Sat Nov 21st, 2009 10:16 PM |
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OldStuffer
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Having carried an M-16 for 13 years, and NOT gotten to shoot any AK's, I have nothibng but distain for the AR and it's clones, and no opinion on the AK's.
The gas-action system is a massive pain, and the reason for my "dislike".
You couldn't GIVE ma a conventional AR (or clone) and get me to keep it longer than it took to sell (at a steep discount).
The only kind I would remotely consider having, is one of the newer ones with the conventional "short-throw piston/operating rod" action design.
I DO consider the .223/5.56mm cartridge useful, for prarie dogs, rabits, and maybe coyotes, small coyotes.
Oh, and the odd rabid skunk or raccoon found out and about in daylight.
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| Posted: Tue Dec 29th, 2009 01:59 AM |
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BigBill
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OldStuffer wrote: Having carried an M-16 for 13 years, and NOT gotten to shoot any AK's, I have nothibng but distain for the AR and it's clones, and no opinion on the AK's.
I DO consider the .223/5.56mm cartridge useful, for prarie dogs, rabits, and maybe coyotes, small coyotes.
I was never interested in the AR15 nor the 223 round. The expensive black rifles never caught my fancy. I still feel there way over priced.
It wasn't until i seen the russian izhmash saiga in 223 for only $259 brand new when they were first offered here. I got my foot in the door on a semi auto in 223 for under $300. I just purchased the saiga in 308win and we hammered it trying to make it jam or fail and it never did. It was spitting out the 308 rounds faster than any other rifle i have ever seen. The russian gun was shooting 1 1/2" groups @ 100yds using 308 south african ball surplus ammo too. The saiga was only $289 brand new at the time. Of course they almost doubled in price now. But there still the hottest buy right now on the planet.
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26th, 2010 01:47 PM |
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MAUSER88
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I have both but prefer the AR for accuracy.
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27th, 2010 03:07 PM |
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PfcSalt
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 Oldstuffer is entitled to his opinions, as I am.
AKs shoot 2 moa, usually no better, with rock solid reliability. They are fine up to 200M. Beyond 250M it is hit and miss, mostly miss, thankfully. I am still alive. Little SOBs that shot at me from 300 yards with AKs died. Kalishnikov is the ultimate "spray and pray" weapon. Every collector should have one because of its significance on the battle field. AR-15/M-16s, even 16" M-4s shoot sub moa right outa da box and are also very reliable. ARs are more complex to field strip and clean, but not difficult. ARs are a fun weapon to shoot as are Kalashnikovs.
No AR gas-impingement system problems exist except in people's minds. They run a little hotter on full-auto vs a piston driven system. Piston system works better on SBRs with sound suppressors mounted because they are less sensitive to the amount of gas pressure necessary to properly move the action. Piston system adds extra weight, moving parts, complexity, and a lot of expense. The gas piston system is all the rage, now. Necessary whiz-bang to be cool. Truth be told it is useless unnecessary expense unless you have a 12 inch barrel with a suppressor.
I never saw nor ever heard of M-16/AR-15 fail because of a gas system problem. I have seen them fail to feed from bent or improperly loaded magazines.
The AK 47 is simple enough for illiterate children to operate, very cheap and simple to manufacture.
AR-15 is light weight, amazingly accurate, more complex (yet still simple), with few moving parts, and is expensive, like any high-quality firearm. Comparing AKs to ARs is sorta like comparing Mosin Nagant to Weatherby. Both work. You get what you pay for.
I carried an M-14 in the jungles of Viet Nam and an M-16 into combat, too. The practical advantage of suddenly being able to carry double the ammo in combat vs an M-14, much lighter carrying weight and consistent match-quality accuracy with military ammo is why I liked my M-16 upgrade. M-14 outshines the AR and AK at ranges over 400 yards.
I appreciate the AR enough to have one in 5.56 for the missus and one in 7.62 for me. Both guns have 3 lb. triggers, will out shoot any AK on this planet at any range, in anyone's hands. Our 5.56 cost $850.00 and the 7.62, $1,200.00. I can buy a new Saiga for $500.00, or an ancient Mosin Nagant for $80.00. But, I don't want one. I'll spend the money reloading, and continue to hit what I aim at.
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27th, 2010 06:19 PM |
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3006 user
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PfcSalt - at last somebody has said something I have been thinking about for quite a while, namely the piston system for the AR.. If the gas system is a POS, why wasn't the piston introduced long ago?? And, why didn't Eugene Stoner incorporate the piston in his designs??
Rather than spend the bucks for a conversion kit, or a piston upper, I'll use the money to buy components...
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27th, 2010 07:33 PM |
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-6
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Everything has a place and a usefulness. If it is all the same I will take the AK if my life depends on it. I can shoot an 8" group with it at two hundred yds offhand and that will get me by. Or I can fire it up close under terrible conditions and not be concerned as to whether it is going to put a round down the tube or not. And, I like the illiterate children simplicity of it.
ETA: my go to shooter is the M1A anyway. I can carry enough ammo to get most any job done instead of spraying and praying.
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| Posted: Fri Jan 29th, 2010 02:15 AM |
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BigBill
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I'm sure my saiga's and my sks will do fine in defending our country if need be in any weather/climate.
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| Posted: Thu Mar 18th, 2010 07:11 PM |
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Montana Maddness
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I have a M&P 15. LOVE IT. I want a AK just cause I do. I love them both and they both do good work. Is the AR platform higher maintanace yes. But it shoots much better groups than any AK I have ever shot.
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