swampshooter
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I used the M-14 in the Army, 1967-69. Myself and the vast majority of the troops i served with were not impressed. Oh, it shot well alright, but was extremely prone to jamming up tight if exposed to just a little bit of dirt or sand. When going through the obstacle course in basic only about 10% of the rifles were able to fire on completing the course. I find it hard to believe that 40 years later the only thing people remember is how well it shot on target. If we had ever had to make a D-Day type invasion with the M-14 90% of us would have been dead. The M-1 did not suffer from this allergy to sand the way the M-14 did. Thank God.
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-6
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Swamp, none that I was ever issued gave me any trouble and I fired comp. for several yrs. I tossed mine behind the seat of my PU when I first got it so I could play every time I could. It got dirty, dusty, and gritty. Never had the first burp out of it. Again I mention my nephew. He carried one during his last tour to the sandbox and he loved it. Granted the M1 lead the field for generations and I loved them also but I will take a 14 over it because of the selector, 20 rds, and it being equally as tough as the M1. wc
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miestro_jerry
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Captain Bob,
Any new sightings of the Lion? I hear Big Foot is in Zanesville area.
These are the best time to have a rifle that can take out such critters. I would like to have a M1 Garand, but my M1As and Fulton M14 covers most of my military shooting.
You can ask the two ground hogs that were dispatched this evening if they felt any pain.
-6
I had a Polytech M14s that was better than my issue M14. I think that was the best copy of the military M14 from a foreign country. I gave it to my brother, he is still shooting it and hitting the bullseye.
Jerry
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swampshooter
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Possibly the weapons being issued now have been corrected, I just know what was happening back in the 60's. The D I's that ran the obstacle course told us ahead of time that it would happen. So, apparently everyones guns were jamming. We were crawling 100 yards through sand with machine guns being fired overhead. Live rounds too. Having to negotiate barbed wire, crawl through drainage pipes, etc. This is a lot more grit than you would get carrying them in the back of a pick-up. Try throwing one upside down in the sand sometime and see how many rounds it will fire before jamming. The lubes available now don't attract grit like the oils we had back in the 60's either. Last edited on Tue Aug 4th, 2009 01:45 AM by swampshooter
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DesertMarine
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I was issued an M14 when with 5th Marine Regiment in 62, when Marines first received M14. I was not too good with it but a lot of guys did good. After a while the weight and size does not make a difference, at least not back then. I still use 8 to 9 lb rifle when I hunt, that's with scope, ammo, sling. M14 is a great rifle but prefer Garand.
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-6
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LOL, when I went "under the wire" the trenchs were filled with ice(which we broke through and got soaked). I never carried my rifle so that it took the brunt of the dirt. Remember, I am useless w/o my rifle and my rifle is useless w/o me. If it will not shoot then I am in deep kimchee so it gets protected. wc
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-6
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Just watched Clint Eastwood's newest "Grand Torino". Not his best movie but liked his choice of weapons. I am sitting in my "pooter room" looking at a "sardine can" of '06 in Garand clips. Don't have one yet but it is on the list if I ever get to Anniston. My next is a 270 (since I stumbled onto a cache of rounds and brass). Good reason to buy a shooter don't you think-lol. I have more '06 shooters than 51's but the ballistics are virtually the same until about 800 yds. The Garands were such a stellar jump from the '03 and 30-40s. I have an '03 that was my deer hunter for @ 15 yrs. and loved it. A fine shooter but not in the boat with the Garand as a battle rifle. wc
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miestro_jerry
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The lubes being used during the 60s had there problems with all the rifles of that era. Many of those lubes are still around, but the military has moved on to much newer lubes. The current issue M14 appears to be the same M14 from the 60s, but many have been rebuilt. So improvements could have been made.
I had a cure for the lube problem, mostly teaching people to clean the weapon a lot and use a sparingly thin amount of lules. My father sent me some "new" lube that he purchased at the local mom and pops hardware store and ship it to me with other stuff that I needed from the states. The lube worked better than the military LSA.
Now I use the teflon based stuff and clean with Ed's Red. Some thing get better with time and others just get replaced.
The ammo of the early to mid 60s was very dirty, that all changed after the military figured out which powder to use, so the plastic M16 wouldn't jam all the time.
Jerry
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-6
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We were given a grease for the bolt cam/roller and rails but as an old farm boy I remembered never to leave grease exposed to dust/dirt/grime and removed any excess. To leave it was asking for trouble. wc
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miestro_jerry
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-6
A friend of mine, reminded me that there were some M1 Garands that were built to shoot 7.62 NATO for test purposes. Wish I had one of those.
But the M14 was an evolution of the M1 Garand. It had a detachable magazine, inprovement on the basic actions and many other little things.
I like the idea of having a 20 or 30 round magazine.
Jerry
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-6
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There is an outfit in Calif. that takes out the bullet well and adapts the M1 to take BAR mags. That gives you 20 rounds that can be detached quickly like the M14. Drill a couple of holes and do some tinkering and you could have a simulated BAR if you added a bipod. Of course I am not advocating doing such as it is against the law w/o a class III license. wc
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miestro_jerry
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I can get the license, thats not the problem, the law states there will be no new select fire weapons. I think that was passed in 1987.
I have the plans for converting AR 15 to Select Fire, knowledge is always good to have, but having select fire is expense in many ways.
Jerry
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-6
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Mine was sold many many moons ago. I don't want the hassle of class III around me. Actually I am just lazy and don't want to have to carry all that danged ammo. IMO there are very few instances where fast shooters are needed. wc
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miestro_jerry
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Back when I was a young soldier, I trained to be effective with my rifle. Which was make the shot count, When I had to use the M16, it was effective when it worked, but when over whelming forces arrived, slect fire was the way to go, because there were a lot of them. I did not believe in Spray and Pray, but short burst did work well. With my M14, I could do a lot of damage to one target, when there were multiple targets, more fire power was needed.
Plus many of the soldiers in my platoon were temporay members of the Army, so they would expend a lot of ammo. Something about getting home alive comes to mind.
If I had been in a combat situation such as Europe, the M14 would have been ideal in the 60s. If I had been in urban warfare more than the country side, I would have taken the M16 and used it like a sub machine gun. I think this is why the current field units can be armed with M14, M16s and M4s. These cover a wide range of combat situations just like in pre Vietnam times, when M1 Garands, M1 Carbines and Grease guns were used in a platoon situation.
The M14 was meant to cover two roles, that of the main battle rifle and to replace the BAR. Trying to Rock and Roll with an M14 and hit anything just didn't happen for me.
The 50s and the 60s were trnsitional times for the Amerrican Military Structure. I remember seeing M1919s in my early years in the field and then the M60s being used every where. I must say that Ma Deuce is perfection, but rather heavy. The M2 in many of it's flavors have been around forever. She is effect out to 1/2 a Kilometer beyond what I could ever see.
Back to the M14, it is an excellent and effective rifle, but it is not a light, easy to carry rifle. Think about the Soldiers and Marines that carried the M1 Garand thru WW II and Korea, in many different climates and terrains. It worked well for them.
Jerry
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swampshooter
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When studying the development of the M-14 we were shown photos of garands that were converted to full auto with 20 round detachable magazines, examples were in 30/06 and .300 Savage. The M-14 was developed basically because the M-1 full auto prototypes kept bending operating rods when on full Auto. The 7.62x51 inherited it's 51mm length from the .276 Pederson, a very successful test cartridge used in the 1920's during the development of the M-1. Last edited on Tue Aug 4th, 2009 10:06 PM by swampshooter
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miestro_jerry
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I have seen a few bent Garand operating rods over the years from handloaders who like to use very hot loads.
The 276 Pederson was really a nice cartridge, maybe gun makers show look at again.
Jerry
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WildBill
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WOW. Somehow I lost track of this thread. Lots of good input, thanks guys. No M14 yet. But it's still on my wish list along with many other rifles.
Bill
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miestro_jerry
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Bill,
I would seriously look at a Fulton M14, they are as good and generally better than most of the Sprinfields.
Jerry
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swampshooter
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The 276 Pederson was really very similar to the 7mm/08 but was loaded with a wax lubed bullet and to lower pressures than the 7/08. 140 or 150 gr. bullets at around 2400fps. This load was much easier on the long operating rod and bolt of the M-1. The M-1 passed military trials as early as 1927 with the 276 Pederson, but the army insisted on the 30/06 and it was 1937 before the 30/06 M-1 was accepted and went into production.
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