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Blackhat
HB Life Member
| Joined: | 2 January 2006 |
| Location: | New Braunfels, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 151 |
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Posted: 29 September 2006 01:51 PM |
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| Texasdoc, would you give your opinion on this topic. A few years back, a friend of mine told me that an attorney friend of ours had been in a court case involving a large south Texas ranch (it's heirs), a guiding company, and the Southwest Research Institute. In the case, they brought in state biologist to age deer teeth/jaws of deer with documented birthdates, I believe from the Kerr Wildlife Management facility. The biologist, and I believe also experienced guides, had incorrectly judged the age on teeth, 70% of the time on animals 4 1/2 years and older. I personally have always felt this was a foolish method of aging an animal since, deer are like humans, and have different eating habits, chewing habits, etc. All of which will effect tooth wear differently. What are your thoughts?
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Blackhat
HB Life Member
| Joined: | 2 January 2006 |
| Location: | New Braunfels, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 151 |
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Posted: 2 October 2006 01:09 PM |
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Texasdoc, I was unaware you had health issues. I hope all is fine and you make a full and complete recovery.
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The_Mountaineer
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| Joined: | 4 February 2005 |
| Location: | USA |
| Posts: | 715 |
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Posted: 3 October 2006 03:22 PM |
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TDoc - Again, good to have you back!
Blackhat - Tooth wear and replacement, as you know is pretty well the standard means of aging deer. However, as you and Doc brought up, it has its drawbacks. Nowadays, folks have available to them the cementum annuli (cross-sectional tooth ring counting), and I've recently heard of computer analysis on tooth wear as a means. I never even heard of the test Doc mentioned. We lowly field biologists don't have access to such cool toys as what Doc has I suspect. Bottom line is there are a variety of means to determine age based on tissue sampling.
____________________
Montani Semper Liber - Mountaineers are always free
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Blackhat
HB Life Member
| Joined: | 2 January 2006 |
| Location: | New Braunfels, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 151 |
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Posted: 5 October 2006 04:11 PM |
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| Thanks for the reply mountaineer. Four years ago I shot an 8 point buck during a year that was rather poor for various reasons. I had a gentleman who is a very experienced hunter and also a veterinarian age the jaw I brought him. He said it was a 8 1/2 year old buck. I had been watching the deer for about 2 weeks. He showed age but not, in my opinion, that kind of age. After talking to various people about teeth aging, I found that most were quite fanatical about it.
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Blackhat
HB Life Member
| Joined: | 2 January 2006 |
| Location: | New Braunfels, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 151 |
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Posted: 22 December 2006 02:39 AM |
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| Texasdoc, can you tell me where and how to have a liver tolerance test done? And how much does it cost? Our lease manager is having doubts on aging deer. By the way he is also an experienced vet. Please give info.
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Walking Horse Texas
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| Joined: | 10 August 2006 |
| Location: | Texas Hill Country, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 104 |
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Posted: 23 February 2007 07:59 AM |
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The best way to age a deer is to stick your finger up the butt
If the deer cliches up and tries to get away - 1-2 year old
If the deer makes a lot of smart ass comments, tells you to buy him a drink first, etc - 3-4 year old
If the deer gives you a lecture on having a mortgage, a bunch of kids running around and the price of deer corn - 4-5 year old
If the deer just flat out gets into it and says something about viagra - 6-7 year old
If the deer farts and falls back to sleep - 8-9 year old CULL
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Timberghozt
Board Founder
| Joined: | 11 February 2005 |
| Location: | Plaza De Los Armas, Mexico |
| Posts: | 5339 |
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Posted: 23 February 2007 03:31 PM |
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lmfao............
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Blackhat
HB Life Member
| Joined: | 2 January 2006 |
| Location: | New Braunfels, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 151 |
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Posted: 4 July 2007 12:08 PM |
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| Doc, can you give me a name of someone at A&M to contact about the liver tolerance test? Our lease manager spoke to someone there and they didn't know anything about it. Don't know who or what department.
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sako06
addicted handloader
| Joined: | 22 July 2007 |
| Location: | California USA |
| Posts: | 493 |
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Posted: 23 July 2007 02:54 AM |
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| I was trained to estimate the age of deer and elk using jaw boards from the NYS Conservation Dept, put together by one of my wifes relatives ,while getting my BS in Wildlife Mgt at the Univ of AZ from 1961 to 1963. Last edited on 23 July 2007 02:55 AM by sako06
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Mark V
Administrator
| Joined: | 12 February 2007 |
| Location: | USA |
| Posts: | 243 |
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Posted: 4 December 2007 05:15 AM |
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The TP&W senior wildlife biologist we have worked with for years has always advocated jaw bones as the best way to age a deer. In fact, that is quite standard for TP&W across the board and in all their literature for whitetail management. I have never heard of this liver testing but would like more info. 
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Timberghozt
Board Founder
| Joined: | 11 February 2005 |
| Location: | Plaza De Los Armas, Mexico |
| Posts: | 5339 |
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Posted: 4 December 2007 06:36 AM |
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I would too,as a outdoorsman that loves the animals he hunts,a somewhat curious student of whitetails and their lifespan,anatomy,growth features and health aspects in general.I would be very interested in hearing more about this liver testing Doc.Has this been a practice for a long while or is this new technology.
____________________
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Timberghozt
Board Founder
| Joined: | 11 February 2005 |
| Location: | Plaza De Los Armas, Mexico |
| Posts: | 5339 |
| Photo: | [Download] | | Are you a handloader?: | Yes | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | I load everything! |
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Posted: 4 December 2007 06:37 AM |
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Blackhat wrote: Doc, can you give me a name of someone at A&M to contact about the liver tolerance test? Our lease manager spoke to someone there and they didn't know anything about it. Don't know who or what department. Thats very odd
____________________
"He who fights with monsters might take care, lest he thereby become a monster; For if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - F.Nietzche
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Mark V
Administrator
| Joined: | 12 February 2007 |
| Location: | USA |
| Posts: | 243 |
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Posted: 4 December 2007 07:14 AM |
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That is in fact odd.
Gene - I can run it down. I'll give a shout to Warren Bluntzer over at Pico Springs and see what he thinks. God knows that Warren would know. I'll update you.
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Blackhat
HB Life Member
| Joined: | 2 January 2006 |
| Location: | New Braunfels, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 151 |
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Posted: 4 December 2007 11:14 PM |
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| Please post your findings so I can see it also. No one seems to know anything about this liver tolerance test. The only other thing our lease manager has found is a ( I believe) cross sectional analysis of the teeth and I think it is the incisors.
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TasunkaWitko
Board Founder
| Joined: | 4 February 2005 |
| Location: | Chinook, Montana USA |
| Posts: | 847 |
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Posted: 5 December 2007 05:03 PM |
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indeed - very odd, mark - i find myself quite curious about this "liver" business....
 
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Timberghozt
Board Founder
| Joined: | 11 February 2005 |
| Location: | Plaza De Los Armas, Mexico |
| Posts: | 5339 |
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Posted: 5 December 2007 06:17 PM |
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Well I`ll freely admit I have never heard about this liver test fellas,so don`t get me to lying like I have.I aint sure what it is.I know how to age by teeth fairly well and I have a chart at the house that shows how to do it.Like I said though,don`t get me to lying about a "liver tolerance test" cause I don`t have the slightest clue what it is.
____________________
"He who fights with monsters might take care, lest he thereby become a monster; For if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - F.Nietzche
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TasunkaWitko
Board Founder
| Joined: | 4 February 2005 |
| Location: | Chinook, Montana USA |
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Posted: 5 December 2007 06:24 PM |
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can a person just pick up a home "liver test kit" at wal-mart or perhaps the piggly wiggly?
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Mark V
Administrator
| Joined: | 12 February 2007 |
| Location: | USA |
| Posts: | 243 |
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Posted: 6 December 2007 05:34 AM |
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I realize this is beating a dead horse at this point but I have to point this out to the fourm.
I conversed today with the Texas Parks & Wildlife senior biologist that I have worked with for six years now. He was at the TP&W Kerrville Whitetail Research facility at the time and his boss was there as well. His boss is the #1 guy in Texas with TP&W for whitetail deer. They both confirmed that they had never heard of a "liver tolerance test" for aging whitetail.
These guys are the pros with the State of Texas and that is what they conveyed to me, today.
So, that is really all I have more to say about this.
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sdb777
Administrator
| Joined: | 16 October 2005 |
| Location: | Cabot, Arkansas USA |
| Posts: | 1269 |
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Posted: 6 December 2007 12:37 PM |
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I test the liver of whitetails! Right after I cook it in some grease/butter/clove mixture, but only if I didn't blow it apart with a projectile!
My grandfather use to do the same test with the heart, but he just cooked it a little longer
Actually, where could I find a copy of a 'picture-type chart' to study the aging process? As this seems to be the only real way to accurately age this beautiful, tasty animal. I've seen a chart some years ago, but it wasn't something I could put in my computer and reference from time-to-time.
Scott (beating a dead horse...new aging method?) B
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