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Timberghozt
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| Joined: | 11 February 2005 |
| Location: | Plaza De Los Armas, Mexico |
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Posted: 30 April 2005 03:20 PM |
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Hey Doc,I know we discussed these on your board until it went down and lost the info.I know a bunch of us on this board live in Fireant country too and would like to here about these rotten %^&*()&*()*()_.
My original question was how much impact do they have on other young creatures?Do they kill as many other animals as what people say and have a negative impact on the ecosytem ???
Gene
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"He who fights with monsters might take care, lest he thereby become a monster; For if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - F.Nietzche
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Gunrunner
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| Joined: | 3 February 2005 |
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Posted: 18 May 2005 05:25 PM |
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The way the Fire Ants are described in their stinging ability reminds me of Yellow Jackets. One time I set a can of beer down in the yard and came back a few minutes later to take a sip. A friggin yellow jacket had got in there and was biting my lip while stinging it too. (I probably looked pretty funny smacking myself in the mouth to get the dang thing off.)
I'm wondering what measures are used to eliminate fire ant colonies, if any.
Whenever I'd find a yellow jacket colony's hideout I'd sprinkle some boric acid powder on the top of their ground hole. My hope was that the worker jackets would get it on them and it would eventually be passed to the queen. It seemed to work in keeping those little pests from overtaking us.
Biting stinging insects. 
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drinks
Handloading Master
| Joined: | 6 February 2005 |
| Location: | Trinity, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 491 |
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Posted: 19 May 2005 02:39 AM |
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Gunrunner;
I have been fighting the sorry vermin over 35 years, I have not yet given up and moved into a 10th story apartment, but that may be on the horizon as the years sneak up on me.
I have found things that will kill out ONE mound, but they swarm every time it showers and there are always plenty of other nests ready to repopulate any vacant ground.
I really believe the little varmits will eventually learn how to grow fur and then the Yankees will suffer as much as we do.
Don
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PhilLozano
Administrator
| Joined: | 23 May 2005 |
| Location: | Arusha, Tanzania |
| Posts: | 293 |
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Posted: 14 February 2006 06:27 AM |
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OK Guys,
Being that I will be moving to Florida, and these little suckers are known to be there, how do you kill them ?
Gasoline in a sprayer and a match ?
Raid ? Industrial chemicals ?
Vasiline over their hole ? What ????????
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Phil
Stay out of sight and downwind
Professional Hunter / Tanzania
http://www.go-on-safari.com
http://www.go-on-safari.com/talk
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Black-tailed Bandit
addicted handloader
| Joined: | 2 February 2006 |
| Location: | Oregon USA |
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Posted: 14 February 2006 10:27 AM |
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I got into a bunch of them in bootcamp. We were getting chewed on andgetting yelled t untill they saw what the problem was then it was get them off, and getting yelled at for not saying something about it. Them guys hurt!!!!!!!!!
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Charley
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| Joined: | 9 September 2005 |
| Location: | San Antonio, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 2205 |
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Posted: 14 February 2006 01:27 PM |
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Academics for the most part refer to them as RIFA, or Red Imported Fire Ants, folks in the industry jusy use fire ants. RIFA is actually correct, because there are a bunch of native fire ants species, too. Many of the native fire ant populations are finally coming back, being surpressed in the 1960s when RIFAs first appeared in Texas. between TDA's fire ant erradication efforts, and the compettition from the imports, native species took a hell of a beating.
RIFAs are bad assed predators and foragers. Ground nesting birds in particular get hit hard by fire ants. Interestingly enough, they also tend to cleanout the ticks and chiggers in areas where fire ant populations are heavy. They have been known to attack and sometimes kill whitetail fawns, and other animal young.
Fire ants actually DO bite and sting! The worked grabs a bit of tissue with her mandibles, and then whips here abdoman around and stings wherer she is holding the tissue. Kind of a small point, but it does happen. The bite is immaterial anyway, the real punch is in the sting.
Fire ants are in the order hymanoptra, same as bees and wasps. Neat tie in to the yellow jacket comment. If you are wondering why the ants can climb al over you and then sting at the same time, remember, insects communicate by chemical scents, called pheromones. What happnes is you are just another rock or tree, until something triggers a defensive reaction from one of the ants. When she (yeah, she. All worker ants are sterile females) stings, she releases an attack pheromone that says, "I don't know what this is, but it looks bad. I'm stinging it, and you should, too." That's why you get twenty stings instead of one.
Every fire ant colony in Texas is a polygyne colony...there is more than one reproductive, or queen. To add to the problem, all the fire ant colonies in Texas are geneticly similar enough that the don't attack each other. Twenty years ago, fire ant swarmers werer often killed when they landed in another colonty's foraging territory. That doesn't happen here today.
RIFAs also do not show the mounding instinct they did a few years ago. You still see it in pasture land, but in lawns and other turf, most fire ant colonies do not mound, except in unusaual circumstances, or when the soil becomes wet. Then the mound is used to move the brood (eggs, larvae, and pupae) out of the wet soil.
RIFAs are not difficult to control in small areas. You can deal with an acre or so, but when you look at treating hundreds or thousands of acres, cost becomes prohibitive. Baits are one of the easiest, cheapest ways to control fire ants. Trouble is, most baits are not labeled for pastureland or cropland. The only bait I am aware of that is labeled for pasture and cropland in Texas is Zoecon's Extiguish Fire Ant Biat. The active ingrdiant is a methoprene, and insect growth regulator (juvenile hormone mimic),not a toxicant. Advantages are it can be used almost everywhere, the disadvantage is that control takes about six to eight weeks. Tis is typical of IGRs, and is not a slam at the product. It works by disrupting the reproductive and growth process. The worker ants are untouched, and will live until they wear out and die, which can take four weeks or more.
Most fire ant baits are very effective. You can use the ant's natural foraging instincts against them. Most baits call for one to one and a half pounds per acre, so if you are treating a small area, adjust accordingly. Apply when the turf is dry, most baits become gummy when wet, and are not attractive to the ants in that stage. Studies have shown that in an eight hour foraging period, fire ants will pick up about 90 to 95 percent of the bait particles in the treated area. More isn't better or faster, you're just spending more money with no benefit. Broadcast the bait as evenly as possible over the area to be treated.
Baits with toxicants take three to four days to show results in most cases. Adult ants feed exclusively on liquids, and the granular bait particles must be processed by the ant larva into a liquid before it can be distributed to the colony. Takes a bit of time.
Other treatment options include insecticidal granules with the active ingrediant of Fypronil. These include Top Choice and it's over the counter relative, Over 'n Out. These are expensive, but Top Choice gives almost one year of control for fire ants, and Over "n Out provides about six months of control. Fypronil is a slow acting agent that targets an insect's nervous system, and has very little effect on non arthropods. It is transfered from ant to ant within the colony, even to those that had no contact with the material.
DuPont has a very fast acting bait called Advion, which has some neat chemistry. As applied, the active ingredant is almost completely non-toxic, only becoming toxic when the insect begins to digest and break down the molecule. It works faster than other baits, but is about 40% more expensive.
Research is ongoing. Current media darling is a species of small fly that parasitises the fire ant workers. I don't look for that to be economicly viable managment. Forget all the electronic dohickys that have been on the market off and on for some years. Mostly a waste of time and money.
Anybody has any questions about fire ant management in their particular situation can PM me.
BTW, I'm a member of ENTSOC (Entomological Society of America) and a ACE, or Associated Certfied Entomologist. I've spent the last 24 years in the Pest Management Industry, and there isn't much in Texas I haven't seen or dealt with.
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"You all can go to Hell, I'm going to Texas" David Crockett (and probably George Bush)
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bea175
Board Founder
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Posted: 14 February 2006 03:44 PM |
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Pesky little critters ain't they
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shane06fl
HB Full Member
| Joined: | 5 March 2005 |
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Posted: 27 February 2006 02:32 AM |
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Phil all you can do is put some bait out in broadcast form. It will kill them off for a little while until the bait is weak and another colony moves in. You can also ''down rod'' them with insectacide but that only kills the ants in that hole, if you don't get the queen you have done nothing. Now i haven't got a clue if these damn fire ants here imported but I know they will leave some nasty puss pimples all over your feet!
Good luck in FLA!
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PhilLozano
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| Joined: | 23 May 2005 |
| Location: | Arusha, Tanzania |
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Posted: 27 February 2006 03:25 AM |
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Shane,
Thanks.
Actually, I thought the 'Vaseline over the hole' was pretty clever. It's cheap and they might have a problem getting through it.
Hoewever, I have no idea what they are like. Hope I don't have to find out.
____________________
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Phil
Stay out of sight and downwind
Professional Hunter / Tanzania
http://www.go-on-safari.com
http://www.go-on-safari.com/talk
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Charley
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| Joined: | 9 September 2005 |
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Posted: 27 February 2006 05:03 PM |
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| If you are going to end up in Florida, you will find out.
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hunterfisher
addicted handloader
| Joined: | 18 April 2005 |
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Posted: 1 March 2006 01:38 PM |
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'Piss on um'. Yep, it works. Here in NC were having a bad time with them. There was an article in our monthly state wildlife magazine about them. The biologist are trying new ways to control them. They said if you want to eliminate a mound in your yard you can pour urine on it and it will kill them. I can see the headlines now,... Many area residents arrested for indicent exposure while doing yardwork. 
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Charley
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| Joined: | 9 September 2005 |
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Posted: 1 March 2006 05:11 PM |
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The ammonia in urine will provide some kill, but a fairly small percentage of the colony. Biggest factor is in disturbing the nesting site. Fire ants will move when the nesting site is disturbed in any major fashion. The method doesn't manage or control the population, just shuffles them around.
Lots of "home remedies" for fire ants really just involve forcing the colony to move. "Everybody" around here just "knew" that you could sprinkle grits on a fire ant colony and it would kill them. Yep, they eat the grits, drink water, and swell up and pop. Ants can't burp, you know. Urine is the same kind of hokey story, for the most part.
One thing more that can be done, but most won't bother with it. Get your soil bacteria/microbe level up, and fire ants don't do nearly as well, due to disease causing pathogens. Agricultural molasses will help that process. It is slow, but does affect the ant population.
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"You all can go to Hell, I'm going to Texas" David Crockett (and probably George Bush)
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billt
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Posted: 3 March 2006 12:26 PM |
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| Last year I had a few pop up in my backyard. I'm leery of useing any poison because of the dog. My pool guy said they HATE the white D.E. pool filter media, so I sprinkled some down and the next day they were gone! Most likely to be someone else's problem. This stuff is cheap and non toxic. I now sprinkle some around the perimeter of my backyard by my wall, and they haven't been back since. Bill T.
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Charley
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| Joined: | 9 September 2005 |
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Posted: 3 March 2006 12:32 PM |
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| Diatomacious earth is deadly to all arthrods, including insects. It scrapes away the waxy cuticle on the critter's exoskeleton and they dehydrate to death. That said, pool filter DE may not be a toxicant, but it is one Hell of an inhalation hazard. Silicosis of the lungs is not a good thing! Most DEs for pesticide application are ground coarser and are a bit safer to handle in that respect.
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drinks
Handloading Master
| Joined: | 6 February 2005 |
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Posted: 20 March 2006 02:18 AM |
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I have heard an unconfirmed rumor [the kind politicians like to spread], that A&M has a secret project, funded by the Sons of the Confederacy, to breed fire ants that can live and increase at -40' F.
The program aim is to spread the little varmits to all the states of the North that participated in the war of aggression against the peace loving states of the Confederacy, under the share the misery policy.
 
Last edited on 20 March 2006 02:20 AM by drinks
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Charley
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| Joined: | 9 September 2005 |
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Posted: 20 March 2006 03:17 AM |
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| At this point in time, the Center For Urban Entomology is unable to confirm or deny such a story. If any of the YFAT (Yankee Fire Ant Team) are killed or captured, I'm sure Dr. Gold and the rest of the department will disavow any knowledge of their actions.
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"You all can go to Hell, I'm going to Texas" David Crockett (and probably George Bush)
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crazy2medic
addicted handloader
| Joined: | 16 March 2006 |
| Location: | Watauga, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 291 |
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Posted: 4 April 2006 12:12 PM |
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okay my 30yrs experience a Texas certified exterminator, here what I know. Amdro works well so does the other fire ant baits but need to be spread out over a large area to truly gain control! it's slow to take effect but will kill the nest, don't bother sprinkling it on individual nest! get a big bag and use your fertilize spreader!
if you can get it or can afford it the fire ant killer "OVER & OUT" is great stuff will kill fire ant in your yard for up to a year, once again fertilize spreader is the weapon of choice! this stuff screws with the "hive mind" ants no longer feed or groom each other, causes them to wander about dirty, hungry, if an ant comes in contact with the stuff and bumps or touches another ant now both are infected. I sprayed my yard with the commercial equivalent and I haven't had fire ants in my yard for two years!
my 2 cents worth!
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Teach the children quietly, for someday sons and daughters will rise up and fight while we stood still!
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Charley
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| Joined: | 9 September 2005 |
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Posted: 4 April 2006 12:31 PM |
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I sprayed my yard with the commercial equivalent and I haven't had fire ants in my yard for two years!
You're a BAD boy. Liqiud broadcast application is off label of every product I know of, except for the new Premise label TDA just approved.
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"You all can go to Hell, I'm going to Texas" David Crockett (and probably George Bush)
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hunterfisher
addicted handloader
| Joined: | 18 April 2005 |
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Posted: 11 May 2006 02:09 PM |
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| Last night Nat. Geo. had a special on about fireants. Anyone else see it? Some biologest in Bee Co. Tx. has found that a certain type of fly from So. Amer. is the fireants worst enemy. Its to deep to go into but if it airs again, ''which I'm sure it will,'' its a must see... Hey Doc, did you see it? I'll bet you know some of the ranchers that are involved with the study.
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Charley
Administrator
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Posted: 11 May 2006 07:02 PM |
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Been ongoing. Phorid fly/fire ant interac6tion has been studied for some years, and will continue. As I mentioned above, I don't see this as being an economicly viable management tool for some years, if ever. Go here for more information.
http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~gilbert/research/fireants/fireant.html
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"You all can go to Hell, I'm going to Texas" David Crockett (and probably George Bush)
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