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sdb777
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| Joined: | 16 October 2005 |
| Location: | Cabot, Arkansas USA |
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Posted: 9 January 2008 01:08 PM |
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Did my soil test last weekend. Now I need to figure out how to put all this fertilizer, lime, and sweat/labor into this new piece of ground! According to the soil testing folks, I need 1.5 tons of lime worked into the soil per acre.....crap! It'll look like winter has struck central Arkansas....that's a crapload of lime!
Can I put lime on a new food plot area in small increments? Putting 1.5 tons of it down all at once seems 'excessive'.....can it be put on while plants are growing with hurting the animals? (They shouldn't just lick it off the plants, right?)
Planning is to put powder type on the ground and turn it over a few times, then using pellet-type lime and disk it a lot to really get it mixed. Going back over one week later with a truckload of triple 13, and more lime(powder).....turning it in also. Now this will get me nowhere near the required 1.5 tons. Thinking is to plant a week later, and then when the stuff comes up some....more pellet-type lime(figure the powder would stick to the leafy plants-don't know what outcome that would have).
Oh, yeah! Planting a clover blend with some common peas/beans thrown in to give the clover time to root before they pull it out of the ground!
Scott (hate lime) B
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The_Mountaineer
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| Joined: | 4 February 2005 |
| Location: | USA |
| Posts: | 715 |
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Posted: 9 January 2008 02:20 PM |
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Scott,
I commend you for doing it right. Soil tests are best taken during the low soil productivity levels of late fall and winter as it gives a better measure of nutrients & pH without a lot of "interference" by plants and warmer temps. Good on you for that
Now as far as liming goes,
Spreading lime in increments is a good idea, but usually not over the course of a single growing season. Rather, liming prior to planting is preferred so it "preps" the soil pH prior to plant growth. It can take a while for the soil to do its job. Factors such as temperature, rainfall, actively growing plants, etc. can impact how soon the lime "works." Spreading lime over a few growing seasons to maintain pH is the ideal.
Lime isn't usually recommended to be placed on the plants. I doubt that it will burn them chemically but it will act as a dessicant and dry them up. Forbes and legumes like clover are more susceptible to this than grasses as they're usually more lush and more moisture sensitive. Furthermore, an improvement in soil pH also invites weed competition. The big culprit in my food plots is foxtail. With a lime application, it seems as if you can watch the dang foxtail start working its way out of the ground within hours!
So what I'm getting at is that if soil is going to improve pH and increase weed competition, why not do it at the outset rather than trying to control weeds later? Of course, any food plot should have maintenance done (i.e., selective herbicides, mowing, etc.). With each successive disturbance of the soil, you invite weeds by exposing new weed seed from the seed bank in the soil.
Bottom line, I'd dump all the lime and fertilizer in one pass. Give it some time to work, then plant. Once planted, maintain the plot with selective herbicides and mowing (dependent upon what the seed company recommends for your particular cultivar).
Each location is different, but I find myself wanting to plant legumes early so they can get plenty of moisture for growing prior to the summer's baking temperatures.
Hope this helps.
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sdb777
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| Joined: | 16 October 2005 |
| Location: | Cabot, Arkansas USA |
| Posts: | 1269 |
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Posted: 10 January 2008 01:10 AM |
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Would it be wise to use a herbicide prior to planting or are the 'weed seeds' immune to the chemicals? I know that nothing but vines and a few low weeds with briars are green right now, but I don't need to be 'battling' this things after the plot starts to grow!
Also, with the fertilizer and lime application be offset by a herbicide?
Scott (dang weeds) B
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The_Mountaineer
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| Joined: | 4 February 2005 |
| Location: | USA |
| Posts: | 715 |
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Posted: 10 January 2008 02:12 PM |
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Dang weeds is right.
That's the single biggest thing, other than lack of rain, that has caused food plot failures for us.
I'd definitely consult with some of the local gurus on what are problem weeds in your area. As you might expect, there are a wide variety of herbicides out there. I'm still not up on all of them. Types include pre-emergent, post-emergent, pre-plant, selective, etc. etc.
If you're going to break ground I'd consider incorporating a pre-plant or pre-emergent herbicide which will take out the weed seeds that are problematic to your area. This is done about 2 weeks or so before planting. When you're ready to plant, you simply rough up the ground, plant and seed. At this time you might also be able to use a pre-emergent herbicide if it won't affect your crop seed. Again, local ag agents are important to find out the local situation.
With clover plots this is what we usually do. Once the plot is adequately prepared (soil test, limed and fertilized if necessary) we'll apply a pre-plant or pre-emergent herbicide and let it do its work for the allotted time (usually two weeks but it varies with each herbicide - be prepared to read the manual that comes with the bottle!). After that, we rough the soil and broadcast the seed. After the clover leafs out we'll use either "Arrest" or "Slay" herbicides - which are selective against herbaceous weeds and forbes, yet safe for clovers. It's not cheap but if you can hit it at exactly the right time, it works wonders. Usually 1 or 2 applications during the growing season is all that's necessary especially if mowing can be done to "top out" the weeds. With the right equipment, it's not that difficult at all. What is difficult is timing. That's the real pain of food plots - timing the plowing, spraying, seeding, mowing and so on.
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The_Mountaineer
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Posted: 10 January 2008 02:15 PM |
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Oh almost forgot.
Lime and fertilizer usually don't interract with the herbicides we use. In fact, some manufacturers give you a recipe on how to make a "weed & feed" concotion - sprayed of course in most instances.
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Charley
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| Joined: | 9 September 2005 |
| Location: | San Antonio, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 2225 |
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Posted: 11 January 2008 12:44 PM |
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The_Mountaineer wrote: Oh almost forgot.
Lime and fertilizer usually don't interract with the herbicides we use. In fact, some manufacturers give you a recipe on how to make a "weed & feed" concotion - sprayed of course in most instances.
Your location might be different,. but weed N feed combos are bad news around here. Timing is everything when dealing with fert and herbicides, about the worst thing you can do in my location is apply at the same time. You are almost guaranteed to burn stuff...
If you are going to apply an herbicide ( and I wouldn't unless absolutely needed), I'd use either glyphosate type herbicide (Roundup, etc), or a homemade herbicide. For homemade, take 1 gallon iof vinegar, add two ounces of orange oil, and about 1/2 oz liquid detergent. teh vinegar needs to be at least 5%, like pickling vinegar. Works well, and isn't near as nasty to the surrounding environment as synthetics.
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The_Mountaineer
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| Joined: | 4 February 2005 |
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Posted: 11 January 2008 03:37 PM |
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Charley is right. Glyphosate is good but it only works on actively growing plants, it does nothing for weed seeds. If it's green, glyphosate (Roundup) will kill it as it works as a photosynthase inhibitor. Essentially it stops an enzyme used in photosynthesis and the plant is starved to death. The Roundup Ready products (Corn & Soybeans) are good as they have been genetically modified not to be affected by glyphosate. They're supposed to be coming out/researching on other plants but to my knowledge these are the only ones used in great abundance in our area. Still, we use them as the herbicide regimen is simple and effective. The following year, after a good Roundup Program, we can rotate to another crop (e.g., clover, etc.)
Timing is everything with food plots and weed 'n feed is no different. Gotta watch the plants close before applying anything after emergence so you don't burn them.
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