| Posted: Fri Oct 23rd, 2009 09:25 PM |
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patriot7
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Question for those of you who handload and shoot 300 Winchester.
Who has downloaded this cartridge to 30-06 performance levels across all bullet weights (100 to 250 grain) with satisfactory ballistic results?
The reason I am asking this question is I am looking at buying a Sauer 202. If I buy it in 300 Winchester it will enable me to upgrade to any other magnum or big bore by simply buying another barrel and walla! I have a whole new rifle. If I buy it in 30-06 and want to shoot magnum or big bore I will have to buy another complete rife and I really don't want to do this as they are a very expensive rifles.
I just want to know how flexible this cartridge is as I can't see always needing 300 Winchester ballistics.
Thank you very much members.
Last edited on Fri Oct 23rd, 2009 09:26 PM by patriot7
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| Posted: Fri Oct 23rd, 2009 11:23 PM |
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-6
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Easy on my favorite caliber-- LOL. Am prejudiced just a bit. wc
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| Posted: Sat Oct 24th, 2009 01:50 PM |
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patriot7
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Hi,
Thanks for answering. In my book "Cartridges of the World 9th Edition" it says that the short neck of the 300 Winchester is a poor feature as it means the heavy bullets have to project back into the powder space quite a bit. Have you found this to be a problem handloading this cartridge. Thanks.
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| Posted: Sat Oct 24th, 2009 02:31 PM |
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Paul B
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patriot7 wrote: Hi,
Thanks for answering. In my book "Cartridges of the World 9th Edition" it says that the short neck of the 300 Winchester is a poor feature as it means the heavy bullets have to project back into the powder space quite a bit. Have you found this to be a problem handloading this cartridge. Thanks.
My favorite loads for the .300 Win. mag. use either the 200 gr. Speer hot Core for the longer shots or the 200 gr. Nosler partiton for shots at 200 yards or less. All that fuss about the neck being too short is a lot of reconstituted bull fodder. I have 4 rifles in .300 Win. mag., a Winchester M70 that is sub-MOA wit those loads and three Ruger #1 rifles, a "B" model and two "S" models. (I collect Ruger #1's) Of the three Rugers two are sub-MOA and one "S" model has not been shot yet but I figure it should shoot well, if and when I do shoot it. The unfired one is a 200th Year of American Liberty model.
It's no use giving out my load data as the powder I use has been discontinued for at least five years now.  I'll just add that all four rifles have 26" barrels and velocity from the three I've shot with those bullet has run a tad over 2900 FPS.
The big gripe about the neck being too short comes from the fact that machine screw turned early Nosler bullets couldn't be properly held by the short neck. Nosler made a special 180 gr. bullet for the .300 with little grooves that allowed the necks to grip the bullets. After they changed the way they made the bullets they reconfigured the shape of he bullet so that the neck of the .300 WM would hold the bullet.
I've been shooting the .300 WM now for over 30 year and I have not found the neck to be a problem.
Patriot. Do a search here in the forum as I posted data on downloading the .300WM to 30-30, 30/40 Krag, .308 Win. and 30-06 levels.
Paul B.
Last edited on Sat Oct 24th, 2009 02:35 PM by Paul B
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| Posted: Sat Oct 24th, 2009 03:16 PM |
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-6
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My son loves his 300 but I can shoot right with him with my trusty old '06. He swears his caliber is far superior and then I ask him why my target and his look almost identical. At 500 yds I even like mine better--of course he disagrees-lol. Going to take the range on out one of these days and try to show off to him a bit--who knows, wc
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| Posted: Sat Oct 24th, 2009 04:07 PM |
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patriot7
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Thank you for your reply. Do you know if all bullet manufacturers have changed the way they make the bullets so that the neck of the .300 WM will hold the bullet properly?
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| Posted: Sat Oct 24th, 2009 04:12 PM |
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patriot7
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Does your sons gun weigh the same as yours and if so does his 300 Win. kick noticably more than your 30-06? When you shoot his can you shoot as accuratley with it as your 30-06?
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| Posted: Sat Oct 24th, 2009 05:26 PM |
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fryboy
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ummmm .." o you know if all bullet manufacturers have changed the way they make the bullets so that the neck of the .300 WM will hold the bullet properly?"
that really throws me for a loop and i recall no special bullets made expressively for the 300 winnie...
hodgdon has youth load data
http://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/Youth%20Loads.pdf
tho u may have to start at their home page and pick it from the drop down menu on the load data tab
umm one of the best things to reduce perceived recoil is a stock that fits well,a ill fitting stock will enhace the "ouch " factor
the 300 winnie will of course kick more with factory loads than a 30-06 with the same weight of bullets more horsepower equals more punch ,lighter bullets induce less recoil than heavier ones ,alot of the powders designed for loading magnums do not reduce well so be careful in that regard,lymans has cast boolit data i believe and they of course are lighter loads than factory rounds
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| Posted: Sat Oct 24th, 2009 06:06 PM |
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bea175
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You have to use the right powder to get the advantage of the 300 WM over the 06. Rel 22, Ramshot Magnum ect... the 300 WM will beat the 06 by 200 to 300 fps only if you are selective with the powder. The biggest advantage of the 300 WM is when you get to 200 gr bullets or heavier.
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| Posted: Sat Oct 24th, 2009 08:12 PM |
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-6
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Patriot, have not shot his 300 but they are similar.
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| Posted: Sat Oct 24th, 2009 09:31 PM |
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DesertMarine
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I loaded 300 WinMag for a while until I got the bright and bad idea to convert it to 300 WSM. Big regret. But I never had problems with short neck. Marine snipers use 300WinMag quite a bit, so it has to be good.
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| Posted: Sat Oct 24th, 2009 11:28 PM |
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Paul B
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fryboy wrote: ummmm .." o you know if all bullet manufacturers have changed the way they make the bullets so that the neck of the .300 WM will hold the bullet properly?"
that really throws me for a loop and i recall no special bullets made expressively for the 300 winnie...
From what I understand, Nosler was the only company that had to make up bullets for the .300 Win. Mag. hese bulletshad very shalow rings around the straight portion if the shank that enabled the necl of the .300 mag. to grasp the bullet in a more firm grip. I'm not sure what weights they came in other than 180 gr. which was a weight I never used in my .300s. Anyway, those bullets were long gone by the time I got my first .300. I do remember seeing them though as one of my hunting buddies when I lived in San Francisco loved them in his Remington 700 chambered to the .300 Mag.
The earliest Nosler manual (#1) doesn't even show them and that one was copyright circa 1976 so they were discontinued sometime before 1976. I might be able to find a picture given time but with thesize of my library built up over 50 plus years, it might take a while, then I'd have to try and make a copy and send it to someone who could post it on the site. I'm thinking though of an article in Handloader Magazine about the time Nosler when from making bullets on a screw thread machine to the more modern impact extrusion system they use today.
Paul B.
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| Posted: Sun Oct 25th, 2009 05:58 AM |
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fryboy
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i dont have a 300 winnie and my 300 mag seems to be all neck lolz( not really but it looks like it especially side by side )thanx for the info amigo !( deeper looking isnt needed) fortunately for me most my hunting needs are below mag levels or at least entirely do-able with say less horsepower ? (yes that includes elk on those years i can afford to go )my brother has a 300 winnie and while he has some decent loads worked up for it it isnt a rifle he shoots much ,i do believe that from shooting his with top loads and a similar 06 that the mag does have a few pounds more recoil with the same weight bullet( or at least it so seemed to me but neither was objectionable)
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| Posted: Sat Oct 31st, 2009 06:39 AM |
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Gutshot
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If short necks seem to be a factor for you then have it rechambered to the 308 Norma Mag. They are almost identicle except for the longer more normal neck. They shoot the same with some reloading books favoring the Norma some what. And while on the subject, if you buy the 30-06 what prevents you from rebarreling to a 30-06 length mag.? Nothing. Also why not buy the 30-06 and reream to an AI and be done with all the fuss. You would have the best of both worlds but I guess you would not get to complain as much.
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| Posted: Sat Dec 12th, 2009 10:40 PM |
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varmintcaller
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I have absolutely no problems with the neck of my 300 Win Mag. It has become my favorite caliber, and replaced my 7MM Rem Mag for all of my big game hunting.
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| Posted: Sun Dec 13th, 2009 03:05 PM |
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Offfhand
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I always laugh out loud when I hear or read someone saying the neck of .300 Win Mag is too short. It's the usual suspects: the know-nots repeating the know-nothings. Just for fun, get out your Sierra ringback loading guide and count out ten pages, any ten. Press them together and measure their combined thickness with your micrometer or caliper. Or just take my word for it: the combined thickness is some.040" forty-thousanths. Now, using SAAMI specs and doing a little arithmetic we discover that the neck of .300 Win is all of .039" shorter than the .308 win. and a huge .034" shorter than .300 WSM. Wow! Hold those ten pages together and look at them edgewise and see what a tiny difference it is, but how often does someone complain about those two popular rounds suffering from SNS(Short Neck Syndrome)? I have, and have had, several .300 Win Mag rifle and used them successfully from Alaska to Africa to the 1000 yard line at Camp Perry, and never once did I see evidence of them suffering from dreaded SNS.
Shoot well, ofter, and safely..
Offfhand
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| Posted: Sat Dec 19th, 2009 01:38 PM |
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BPCR Bill
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Paul B wrote: fryboy wrote: ummmm .." o you know if all bullet manufacturers have changed the way they make the bullets so that the neck of the .300 WM will hold the bullet properly?"
that really throws me for a loop and i recall no special bullets made expressively for the 300 winnie...
From what I understand, Nosler was the only company that had to make up bullets for the .300 Win. Mag. hese bulletshad very shalow rings around the straight portion if the shank that enabled the necl of the .300 mag. to grasp the bullet in a more firm grip. I'm not sure what weights they came in other than 180 gr. which was a weight I never used in my .300s. Anyway, those bullets were long gone by the time I got my first .300. I do remember seeing them though as one of my hunting buddies when I lived in San Francisco loved them in his Remington 700 chambered to the .300 Mag.
The earliest Nosler manual (#1) doesn't even show them and that one was copyright circa 1976 so they were discontinued sometime before 1976. I might be able to find a picture given time but with thesize of my library built up over 50 plus years, it might take a while, then I'd have to try and make a copy and send it to someone who could post it on the site. I'm thinking though of an article in Handloader Magazine about the time Nosler when from making bullets on a screw thread machine to the more modern impact extrusion system they use today.
Paul B.
Paul,
If memory serves, I used to load Nosler 85 grain bullets with those "rings" for a 243 my Dad had many years ago. A dear friend had a 22-250 that used the same bullets, Nosler Zipedos. I do not think that particular bullet design was the realm of the 30 caliber / 300 WinMag short neck issue. I could be mistaken, but the same bullet design you mention being offered in other than 30 caliber gives me some pause here.
Regards,
Bill
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| Posted: Sat Dec 19th, 2009 01:47 PM |
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BPCR Bill
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Offfhand wrote: I always laugh out loud when I hear or read someone saying the neck of .300 Win Mag is too short. It's the usual suspects: the know-nots repeating the know-nothings. Just for fun, get out your Sierra ringback loading guide and count out ten pages, any ten. Press them together and measure their combined thickness with your micrometer or caliper. Or just take my word for it: the combined thickness is some.040" forty-thousanths. Now, using SAAMI specs and doing a little arithmetic we discover that the neck of .300 Win is all of .039" shorter than the .308 win. and a huge .034" shorter than .300 WSM. Wow! Hold those ten pages together and look at them edgewise and see what a tiny difference it is, but how often does someone complain about those two popular rounds suffering from SNS(Short Neck Syndrome)? I have, and have had, several .300 Win Mag rifle and used them successfully from Alaska to Africa to the 1000 yard line at Camp Perry, and never once did I see evidence of them suffering from dreaded SNS.
Shoot well, ofter, and safely..
Offfhand
Offhand,
I think you are correct in your statement, but one of the first gun gurus to mention the "SNS" as it pertains to the 300 Win Mag was none other than P.O. Ackley in one of his published works. Even the most revered authorities can get it wrong once in awhile, and then that mis-information can take on a life of it's own (For Years). But then, bullet designs have changed alot since the introduction of the 300 Wnnie, and powder offerings have gotten better as well.
Regards,
Bill
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