| Posted: Fri Nov 6th, 2009 03:00 AM |
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sdb777
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Got an interesting question for those that might be able to help.
Allen(hunting buddy), bought a 20" Handi-Rifle chambered in .30-06 and wants to reload for it. My experience is limited to those 24" & 26" barreled offering in this caliber.
Can I get a Remington 165gr Core-Lokt to a 2700fps velocity with this short of a barrel?
What powder would best fill the cartridge and still get to this velocity(above)?
Scott (I could goggle it, but this is more fun) B
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| Posted: Fri Nov 6th, 2009 03:22 AM |
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Busted
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Not likely to attain that speed in a short barrel at safe pressures. IMHO.
The same charge that will give highest speed in a long barrel will give the highest speed, what ever it is, in ahorter barrel.Last edited on Fri Nov 6th, 2009 03:22 AM by Busted
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| Posted: Fri Nov 6th, 2009 04:00 AM |
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Rockydog
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I've been around several of these in smaller calibers but never one in .06. Soorry I can't help with your question. However, I'll bet no matter what you feed it the muzzle blast and recoil will be impressive. RD
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| Posted: Fri Nov 6th, 2009 05:14 AM |
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fryboy
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i have a freely admitted love for carbines ( yup even with the lower velocity they're just lighter to pack around all day )i no longer load for this round but i have found that while the faster powders dont do as well in a long barrel they do work better in a shorter barrel ,alot depends upon the bullet weight but usually stepping up a burrning rate or two has helped me alot of times in my short barrels and also with the lower velocity a lighter bullet also helps,for an example 80 grainers in a 243 with a long barrel are more of a varmit bullet , used on deer they are questionable at best with a loss of bloodshot meat as well yet in my pistol encore they perform more like a 100 grainer and ditto in my 660 carbine ditto on the 120 grain 7mm bullets etc
on a educated guess he'll lose between 20-50 fps per inch shorter than what ever load he's using ( which prolly was measured in a 24" barrel) so if the load list 2700 he'd ne within 80-200 fps below that ...(umm thaz a condensed 1 cent version lolz i'll save the other penny's worth for next time lolz )
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| Posted: Fri Nov 6th, 2009 05:30 AM |
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Gutshot
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If going for deer I'd try 150 grns. pills with a faster powder. The slower powders won't help much, but make a good muzzle flash.
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| Posted: Fri Nov 6th, 2009 05:58 AM |
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miestro_jerry
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I would consider may a lighter yet bullet, maybe a 130 grain Barnes TSX. I think I would stick to powder like 748, but not sure of what to suggest for a load in a short barrel 30-06.
But maybe a load developed for an Encore in 30-06 may be a good guideline. Short barrels can be tricky on loads, some times a lighter bullet pushed faster can be more accurate and effective than a heavier load, sometime not.
Jerry
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| Posted: Fri Nov 6th, 2009 11:02 AM |
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OldStuffer
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sdb777 wrote: Got an interesting question for those that might be able to help.
Allen(hunting buddy), bought a 20" Handi-Rifle chambered in .30-06 and wants to reload for it. My experience is limited to those 24" & 26" barreled offering in this caliber.
Can I get a Remington 165gr Core-Lokt to a 2700fps velocity with this short of a barrel?
What powder would best fill the cartridge and still get to this velocity(above)?
Scott (I could goggle it, but this is more fun) B
What is your hunting buddy planing on hunting with it?
IMO, and it's just that, my opinion, a lot of people push a lot heavier bullets than they need to.
Arround here we get big Corn-Fed deer, both whitetails and muleys (out west), and while so many of my fellow 30-cal hunters throw 150's and 160+gr bullets arround, I've taken all mine for the last 25 years, with 130 gr bullets in my .308, and never had a penetration problem, never a losst hit animal (I have missed one or 2  ).
Unless he's planning on hitting something between 500 and 1,000 pounds, I'd downsize the bullet and pick up the velocity there.
Yes, it will be a "boomer", no matter what.
My .308 BAR has a 22" barrell, and my best loadings are with Win. 748BR, I can't speak to the muzzle flash, having never shot it at night. 
I ger arround 2700fps atop 41 grains or so of it out of my Hornady SP. Farthest shot I took and made was paced off about 225 yards, no problem.
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| Posted: Fri Nov 6th, 2009 11:32 AM |
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Paul Tummers
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I do not know this bullet- can you tell me its length and does it have a boat tail?
I am loading also for a friend who has a 20 "barrel in 30-06, he uses however heavier bullets.
Regards,
Paul T.
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| Posted: Fri Nov 6th, 2009 11:38 AM |
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sdb777
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Paul Tummers wrote: I do not know this bullet- can you tell me its length and does it have a boat tail?
I am loading also for a friend who has a 20 "barrel in 30-06, he uses however heavier bullets.
Regards,
Paul T.
Here's where he got a pile of these projectiles.
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=1601550440
Scott (no boattail, and back ordered now) B
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sdb777
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Since some have stated the need to reduce projectile weight, I should have stated in my first post that he already has 1,000 of these. And yes, I offered to purchase his projectiles to feed my 308Win......that way he could get some 150's grainers(or even smaller).
I do have some 748 powder laying around....I'll dig up some data and give it a try. Just wondering how full the case will be?
As for the rifle..... I would have imaged that it would be much lighter, but that huge diameter of a barrel kind of makes it weight more then a standard sporter with a 26" barrel!!!! What the crap!!!!
And the best it will do at 100yds? http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=874258 So it seems the heavier projectiles might be the way to go?
Scott (deer, deer are what he's wanting in the freezer) B
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Paul Tummers
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sdb777 wrote: Paul Tummers wrote: I do not know this bullet- can you tell me its length and does it have a boat tail?
I am loading also for a friend who has a 20 "barrel in 30-06, he uses however heavier bullets.
Regards,
Paul T.
Here's where he got a pile of these projectiles.
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=1601550440
Hi Scott, One part of the question answered, thank you! I need the bullet length to find out the remaining case volume when seated for a certain OAL. Regards, Paul.
Scott (no boattail, and back ordered now) B
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Paul Tummers
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I substituted a Nosler Partition SP 165 grain in my calculating programm;
OAL= 3.340 ", which leaves a case volume of 86.20 grains H2O.
When loaded with 51 grain of VV N 140, this load uses 91% of the volume and should bring a 2645 fps, E= 2563 ft-lbs from a 20 " barrel.
I would not exeed this load by no means- not by using more powder, nor by seating the bullet deeper; P=54604 psi!!
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fryboy
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the more premium type bullets are often for faster velocities and tougher game than deer,while 2700 fps may or may not be possible the heavier the bullet the faster the velocities should be , i use the heck out of rp's the old bronze point was a fav of mine ,i prolly have 350-500 of the ones u list and possibly 2-300 150's left (i still load 30 caliber just not the o6 anymore)according to my old notes out of a 22"sporter barrel i got decent accuracy(a lil over a inch) and just under 2800fps with 56.4 h414 it was under listed max load( which was listed @ 57.3 hornady 5th but currently @ 56.5 with a boat tail hodgdon site)h4895 shows some promise as well umm 760 is almost the same as 414 (some claim it is but the loading data is minutely diff)
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fryboy
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paul mine mic at 1.090 in length .431 to the top of the cannelure about .495 to the start of the ogive and .369 to the bottom of the cannelure from the base
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Paul Tummers
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@ Busted;
The VV 500 series of powder do not work that way-they need a long barrel to develop their entire burning process- if they do, there hardly will be found a powder which is able to propell a heavier bullet at the same speed-with much lower chamber pressures.
Kind Regards,
Paul T.
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Paul Tummers
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@Fryboy;
Thank you. I'll feed my calculator right-away!
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Paul Tummers
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fryboy wrote: paul mine mic at 1.090 in length .431 to the top of the cannelure about .495 to the start of the ogive and .369 to the bottom of the cannelure from the base
I programmed your data;
I had to make the OAL 3.382" to come somewhere near the rule minimum seating depth = Bullet diameter, seating depth = 0.301"length of bearing surface.
Used case volume for 51.5 grains of VV. N140 = 91.1%
Max. CIP pressure = 58740 psi
load pressure = 55230 psi
V0=2656 psi
E0= 2585 ft.-lbs
Again; be careful!! Adding powder in the calculation at this level only raised pressure, hardly velocity!!
Regards,
Paul T.
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OldStuffer
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sdb777 wrote: Since some have stated the need to reduce projectile weight, I should have stated in my first post that he already has 1,000 of these. And yes, I offered to purchase his projectiles to feed my 308Win......that way he could get some 150's grainers(or even smaller).
I do have some 748 powder laying around....I'll dig up some data and give it a try. Just wondering how full the case will be?
As for the rifle..... I would have imaged that it would be much lighter, but that huge diameter of a barrel kind of makes it weight more then a standard sporter with a 26" barrel!!!! What the crap!!!!
And the best it will do at 100yds? http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=874258 So it seems the heavier projectiles might be the way to go?
Scott (deer, deer are what he's wanting in the freezer) B
IMO, the 748 will be a bit fast for that cartridge, and I personally show very little loading data for it. I also consider it too fast for that heavy a bullet, especially in that long cartridge, for best velocity.
The problem is, with that shorter barrel, if you load it with an apropriate case-full of the slightly slower powders, to get the load density up to a better range (90+% full), you are building a fire-ball thrower, and may stil not get that velocity.
If you want to try the 748, I would be trying, from the info I have, right about 38/39 grains of it, and maybe go up a bit from there, not over about 43/44. I suspect that will be in the 80% range.
I don't know that you can make that velocity in that barrel, with that bullet, best of luck to ya tho.
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StretchNM
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Using a max of 62.0 of Reloder 19 or a max of 50.5 of Varget, Lee's manual shows 2880fps and 2873fps respectively..... out of a 24" barrel. Now, how much velocity is lost per inch of barrel? I don;t know how to figure that, but I'm thinking you could get 1700fps out of that rifle, or get close to it anyway.
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Based on my experience with short barreled rifles, A 20" Remington 660 in .308 Wi. and a Ruger M77 RSI, also a .308 Win., I wouldn't get too excited if the velocity doesn't quite make 2700 FPS with a 165 g. bullet.
I shoot the 165 gr. Speer Hot-core from my Ruger RSI using a stiff load of W-760. Velocity runs right at 2550 FPS average. Every deer I've shot with that load has literally been dead right there. The farthest any deer went was maybe 30 feet. The longest shot with that load was 250 yards laser measured. Deer went bang/flop so hard he almost bounced. That same load from a 22" barreled Winchester M70 does 2610 FPS.
From the Remington, many years ago, I made the second longest shot in my hunting career, 427 paces on a 195 pound Mule Deer. In that shot, witnessed by two of my hunting buddies, I was using the 150 gr. Sierra spitzer flat base. They did not call them Pro-hunters way back then. I've never chronographed the 65 gr. load from the Remington, but would estimate about 2580 FPS as a reasonable guess.
My point is if he doesn't reach 2700 FPS, it's no big deal. My personal preference in the 30-06 is the 180 gr. Sierra Pro-hunters, but all my 06's have either 22, 24 or 26" barrels. One that 250 yard deer, the bullet hit him in the chest as he faced me. I recovered that bullet lodged against a back leg bone which was broken by that bullet. The recovered bullet reatined roughly 65 percent of it's weight. Of the half dozen other deer taken with that load,most were broadside or quartering shots and all were complete pass throughs.
My choice of powders to try and reach 2700 FPS would be either IMR or H-4350. Checking in several manuals seems to show that these will give the highest velocity with that weight bullet. If highest speed is what is wanted, you'll have to use what the manuals show is the top velocity maker and try and ignore the muzzle blast. FWIW, it seems to me that the ball type powder give more blast in my short barreled rifles. YMMV.
Paul B.
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