| Posted: Sat Feb 26th, 2005 10:14 PM |
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dakotasin
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i've always been a fan of winchester brass... seems i recently acquired a 7-08, and needed some stuff for it. so, went down to the shop, and they are all out of winchester brass... i keep reading all these stories about how bad rem brass is, so i decided to uniform the population of the first bag (100 pcs), and see for myself... the 2nd bag hasn't been opened yet, wasn't ready to start in on that one).
100 pieces of r-p brass for the 7-08:
average weight: 162.519 grains
mode: 162.2 grains
median: 162.5 grains
standard deviation: .679973 grains
don't know how that stacks up to anything else because it has been a long time since i've run a statistical analysis on cases... anybody else have stats on their brass? how does this bag of r-p stack up?
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| Posted: Sun Feb 27th, 2005 01:29 AM |
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bea175
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I use Remington brass and have had no real problem with it, but prefer Winchester. I believe Win brass holds up better for multiple loading than Remington.
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| Posted: Sun Feb 27th, 2005 03:36 AM |
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dakotasin
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well, i guess i'll see for myself. to this point i have been satisfied w/ winchester brass. but, new gun, no components on hand... i'll try the rp and see. if it doesn't work out, i'll just hold out for ww brass next time...
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| Posted: Sun Feb 27th, 2005 03:55 AM |
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Timberghozt
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Hey Dakota.I use it for my 7mm Mauser.I`ve always heard the same thing as you.That Rem brass sucks.I haven`t had any problems with it in my 7x57.I`ve also heard that Rem Brass is thicker than some other makers but I can`t attest to that.
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| Posted: Sun Feb 27th, 2005 05:48 AM |
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macca
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Dakota you got a good lot of rem brass.I hate the stuff. I have never got a 100 round bag that would give me thirty truely uniform cases.I'm sure they send the junk down here.My sd is usually greater then 3 in it.I find it seperates easily and gives less reloads then other brass.
I run Lapua or Norma in most rifles,especially comp rifles.
I use win brass or federal for hunting.I am trying some pmc made in the usa and it seems okay.
ADI make good brass and i recently was given 780 empties of it.It come annealed and is beautiful to work with.
Just my rant.I just don't have much luck with rem brass or their primers.
Love their rifles though.
Macca
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| Posted: Sun Feb 27th, 2005 04:11 PM |
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Gunrunner
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The only Remington rifle brass I've used was some 22-250. I don't remember specific numbers but the brass just wasn't very good. Didn't last long either. Hopefully your batch or two will work good.
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| Posted: Sun Feb 27th, 2005 04:22 PM |
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dakotasin
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yeah, you guys are bringing up the longevity issue... not having any experience w/ rem brass, i guess i'll just see for myself.
macca- i wonder if some of the cases are more betterer (tech term) because they are rem cases? eg, 308 win brass from rp is garbage, but 7-08 rem brass from rp is good? of course, we are talking uniformity and not longevity, here...
as far as the longevity issue goes, well, i'll let you know. i have a feeling i'll be shooting the tar out of this rifle. it comes in right at 6 pounds ready-to-hunt. the exact weight to be determined because i don't have the bolt right now (sent it to texas, and as soon as it gets back, its off to california, then when it gets back i'll be ready to shoot it)...
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| Posted: Sun Feb 27th, 2005 07:03 PM |
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saddlesore
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The only problems I had was the new cases. After I fired them once and then only neck sized, I got the same accuracy, and longevity as other brands, even in 7 mag.
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| Posted: Mon Feb 28th, 2005 07:30 AM |
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macca
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Dakota I think you are so right.I am sure their is some bias to the rem named brass.
Good luck with yours and I hope you have none of the problems I have struck.
Macca
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| Posted: Mon Feb 28th, 2005 04:18 PM |
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The_Mountaineer
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22-250 Rem., Remington Brass, Lot of 50
153.7 gr. Max Wt.
155.3 gr. Min. Wt.
151.7 gr. Mean Wt.
0.66 gr. Avg. Deviation from Mean
270 Win., Win. Brass, Lot of 50,
188.7 gr. Max Wt.
190.2 gr. Min. Wt.
187.5 gr. Mean Wt.
0.54 gr. Avg. Deviation from Mean
7 mm RUM, Rem. Brass, Lot of 50
275.2 gr. Max Wt.
277.3 gr. Min. Wt.
273.4 gr. Mean Wt.
0.68 gr. Avg. Deviation from Mean
This is all I have in front of me regarding the uniform weight stuff. I have more but I think it's interesting to note that even though the lighter weight cases in the Remington brass I weighed (the 22-250) still has an avg. deviation from mean that is higher than a heavier winchester case (the 270). Could be a fluke for sure but I do see a trend. Remington is gonna have about a 0.65-0.70 grain deviation in the brass weight than the Winchester stuff as it comes out of the bag. Of course this could all change after de-burring flash holes and uniforming the primer pocket. Hmmm, might be something else I should just measure sometime.
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| Posted: Mon Feb 28th, 2005 10:45 PM |
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dakotasin
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yeah... check out your sd's... .68 on the rum brass. my 7-08 was .68. i already did the uniforming thing on my brass, too... primer pockets, flash holes, trim, chamfer, deburr.
i'm going to hold out for some ww brass when i get ready to start my 300 win mag, and i'll do a statistical breakdown and see how that shakes out.
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Fiftydriver
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There is one main difference comparing Rem and Win brass and uniformity is generally not it.
Rem Brass is much softer then Win Brass. This is good in some cases, bad in others.
IF youare forming exotic wildcats, the softer brass will help in allowing necking down or up proceedures with fewer annealing steps. They also fireform much more consistanty at lower pressures then the Win brass in rounds such as the Ackley Improved rounds.
This is not to say the Win Brass will not work well in wildcat round because it does, it just takes more pressure to get fully fireformed cases and you may need to anneal your necks and shoulders for extreme case forming proceedures.
With loads in the 55,000 psi range, Rem brass will actually last longer then Win hulls simply because at this level, the primer pockets will never open up. The softer Rem brass will allow longer case life because the necks will last much longer before they split from sizing and expanding when shooting.
Again, annealing your cases will allow both to last a very long time.
The advantage of Win brass is that it is harder the Rem. This means that it machines much easier. My that I mean trimming and deburring and even neck turning is much easier with hard brass then soft brass. Anyone that has machined stainless steels compared to chrome moly steel knows that the much softer Stainless can cause problems in machining.
Being harder brass, the Win will also last longer when the loads are in the +60,000 psi range but they to will let loose at this level after 5 firings or so.
To get an accurate idea of brass consistancy with the US commercial brass, you really need to prep the cases before any sorting is done. I learned this many years ago when I started loading for a full blown custom 6mm-284. I wanted to get the ultimate in consistancy for extreme range shooting so I bought 200 pieces of brass and set down to sort them by weight. I did and got three 50 ct lots all within 0.5 gr of each other.
I then gave all the cases in these three lots a full BR prepping, Primer pocket recutting, Flashhole deburring, Turned the necks down to 0.011" thick(tight neck), trimmed to length and inside/outside deburred the case mouth.
Just for curiousity sake I reweighed the cases and now I found that of the 150 case for the three different lots, I had 135 cases that were within .3 grains and the total lot of brass had an extreme spread in weight of only .5 gr.
A large reason US brass varies so much is mainly due to case length variations. Flashhole burrs also cause weight variation though not to such a degree.
To get an accurate lot of brass sorted by weight, you really need to trim all cases to the same length and give each case deburring prep.
This is why Norma and Lapua brass is so consistant in weight. Yes all areas of the brass are more uniform then US brass but not by as much as most think. Case length variation adds the most variation to US hulls. IF your sorting before case trimming you are not getting an accurate lot of brass of consistant weight.
Another factor, say your cases average .7 gr variation. As long as you are not shooting a 22 Hornet or a 17 caliber round, you will never see this variation on target in factory rifles and many custom rifles designed for field use. In a round likek the 7mm RUM that has a +100 gr capacity, it is a little amusing that we are concerned with even 1 gr variation between each case because simply put, it don;t mean nothing to a round withthis case capacity.
You will probably have half the variation in case volume that you have in case weight on average and this will not make any difference for 90% of the shooting we all do. Now if your trying to hammer a chuck at 1000 yards or shoot for score at BR matches then yes this is an issue but for all other hunting, even 600 yard big game hunting, this means nothing in the real world.
Don't waste to much time getting grey hairs over case weights, it does not make that much difference in the real world.
Good Shooting!!
Kirby Allen(50)
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