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6MM-284 or 6.5MM-284
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 Posted: Sat Feb 5th, 2005 08:12 PM
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handload
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Both of these rounds draw my attention very hard.I am thinking about having my next rifle built chambered in one of these two.:shock:Any of you guys familiar with these cartridges?

Last edited on Sat Feb 5th, 2005 08:13 PM by handload



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 Posted: Sun Feb 6th, 2005 03:56 PM
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Gunrunner
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I've only seen the 6mm-284, and the guy shooting it was smacking gongs at 400 to 500 yards.   I don't know what bullet he was using but it got to the target real quick and hit the gongs with some authority.   Seems like it would be a good long range varmint round. 



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 Posted: Sun Feb 6th, 2005 04:16 PM
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handload
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Hey GR,I talked yo max-p about it some on the other site.He likes that round.He sent me a dummy cartridge with a Berger bullet in it to take a look at.Very impressive to say the least.That short action cartridge can hold a lot of powder to push a little 6mm bullet.

That is what I had in mind for it.A long range coyote round.Max recomended a long,like 28 inch barrel with a 1 in 10 twist to digest all that burning powder.

If the ****head I am having build the 25-06 AI for me would get off his rear and get done I would like to start this project befor too long.:X

 



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 Posted: Mon Feb 7th, 2005 11:55 AM
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Moose6
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I'd go for the 6.5-284.  You can get brass for it from Norma (and maybe Hornady).  It's called the 6.5-284 Norma.  You know, that being the case, is the 6.5-284 even a wildcat now?  Hmmm, probably not.



 Posted: Mon Feb 7th, 2005 05:52 PM
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handload
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Yikes Moose..Good to see you here bud.

Sadly I think when its gone commercial in production brass its likely lost its Wildcat status.With the exception of not being chambered in off the shelf rifles being its only saving grace as a Wildcat...:(



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 Posted: Thu Feb 10th, 2005 09:31 PM
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Fiftydriver
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Handload,

They are both great rounds, the 6mm-284 is a much more specialized round then the 6.5mm-284.  In that I mean that to get long range performance you really need to use the 105 to 107 gr VLD bullets in the 6mm version.

I have a 30" Lilja barreled 1-8" twist 6mm-284 that is extremely accurate out to well past 1300 yards.  I have even scored one shot kills with it out to 1055 yards on rockchucks.

For close range shooting, 500 yards and under, the 6mm-284 loaded with traditional weight vamint bullets such as the 70 gr Ballistic Tip or 75 gr V-Max will snort out at around 3900 fps from a 28" or longer barrel.  Out to 500 yards this will simply smoke anything the 6.5-284 has to offer.

Where the 6.5mm version shines is at extreme range.  The 140 gr VLD bullets loaded to 2900 fps will carry much better at ranges past 1000 yards.  They will also buck the wind a bit better then its little brother.

Barrel life is also better for the 6.5mm-284, significantly better.  I have seen several 6.5-284 with nearly 3000 rounds down the pipe still cutting 3/4 moa groups.  The 6mm version will need a new barrel by 2000 rounds at the most in most cases.

If your looking to shoot varmint weight bullets, I would recommend a smaller 6mm round, 243 AI is a great choice, I had this reamer made for a customer and should be here within a few weeks.

For using the 80 to 100 gr hunting bullets, the 6mm-284 is a great deer and pronghorn round and will offer better performance then the smaller 6mm rounds.

For a big game rifle, the 6.5mm version is better with its heavier bullets and better sectional densities.

Hell, just go all out and have one of my 6.5mm Allen Mags built.  You would have +3850 fps with a 120 gr Ballistic Tip, 3550 fps with the 140s.  Might as well start at the top:D!!

Good SHooting!!

Kirby Allen (50)



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 Posted: Fri Feb 11th, 2005 01:36 AM
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handload
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Hey Fifty.I`m still thinking along the lines of the 6mm-284.Its intended use will be coyotes at extreme range.The 6.5 would work too, but I like the sounds of that 6mm.Barrel life is not a concern.Thats why they make reamers,barrels and fellas like you to put it all together..;)

That is moving a 6.5mm bullet for sure in your AM.Very impressive velocity to say the least....Gene



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 Posted: Fri Feb 11th, 2005 04:30 AM
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Fiftydriver
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Go with a fast twist 1-8  for the 105 to 107 gr bullets and you will not be unhappy with the 6mm-284 at ranges out to 1000 yards.  On yote size game the heavy match bullets perform better then on smaller game.

The 95 gr Ballistic Tip is a decent choice for long range shooting as well.  It offers a little better on game expansion but will not compete ballistically to the heavier VLD bullets.

Good Shooting

Kirby Allen(50)



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 Posted: Thu May 5th, 2005 03:59 AM
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Hey all! Im sure glad to see you talking about this as I just bought a rifle from the pawn shop because it was to cheap says he had it 2 years and couldnt sell it because you cant buy ammo off the shelf for it and it came with RCBS dies. It was a jap rifle at one time but you can see on the barrel where it is stamped 6.5x284 since Im new to reloading I thought that I would ask a few questions. First off it also came with 35 rounds and a chart. Should I use these rounds and load for it like the previous owner has written in the box or start new and work up a load? What he has is imr4350 57gr speer 120 soft point also he has H4831 48gr sierra 120 soft point. The first load is marked practice and the second load is marked hunting. So what do you guys think? Im new at reloading and really dont want to blow my self up. This paper work is also marked october of 1998. Any info on this would be greatly appreciated. Jimmy



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 Posted: Thu May 5th, 2005 10:36 AM
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macca
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Two Bears,I get very nervous if I didn't make the ammo myself.I would suggest starting fresh and building up to your own loads.

The 6.5-284 is a good round and is not the barrel burner it is always claimed to be.If you load for accuracy and not top velocity you can get 2-2500 rounds out of them.If you push them to the hilt it can be as little as 500-800.

Good luck with yours.

Macca



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 Posted: Thu May 5th, 2005 03:59 PM
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Thank you Macca thats why I asked, Id rather be safe than gone or missing some body parts. Thanks again Jimmy



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 Posted: Thu May 5th, 2005 10:04 PM
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I  believe the 6.5 is much better than the 6mm version . The 6mm-284 isn't much better the the standard 6mm Rem and in my opinion not as good . The 6.5 would be a great long range deer thumper not being very far behind the 264 Win Mag. :thumbs:



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 Posted: Thu May 5th, 2005 10:40 PM
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Wait a minute here, your saying the 6mm-284 is no better then the 6mm Rem but the 6.5-284 is nearly the equal to the 264 Win Mag???

Please explain your reasoning on that comparision.

Kirby Allen(50)



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 Posted: Fri May 6th, 2005 01:32 AM
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max
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Somebody in Tennessee must have one damn good 6mm.

The picture is of some records kept during the earlier life of one 6-284. It used to be pretty entertaining in a dog town. I finally roached it out and made it something else, but not before having a sporter built with the same reamer. The 1x10 Shilen handled 68 grain , 70, 74, 80, 85, 88 ,90, and 95 grain bullets of various types very nicely. As Fifty advised, the lighter bullets just 'puff' things way out there. The current sporter likes either 90 or 95 ballistic tips.

Norma 6.5 brass takes one trip in the resizer die and comes out 6x284.



Attachment: 6284.JPG (Downloaded 112 times)



 Posted: Fri May 6th, 2005 01:40 AM
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max
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The 3 shot group above the 2 inch orange dot was shot at 300 yards and was the final check before the pdog trip that year.

Damn. I wish I had known back then what a waste of time and money those 6-284s were. I could have bought a computer instead and REALLY learned some things.

max



 Posted: Fri May 6th, 2005 02:51 AM
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Using load from a disk to do the comparsion. with each case loaded to 90% cap. The 6mm Rem holds 54.45 gr of water while the 6mm-284 holds 64.49 gr of water. The 6mm loaded with 43.9 gr of H4831 in 24 inch barrel has a vel of 3276 and the 6mm-284 loaded with 53.0 gr H4831 in 24 inch barrel has a vel of 3363, difference of 87 fps not worth 9 more grains of powder. Hornady 95 gr SST.

The 264 Win hold 79.159 gr of water and the 6.5-284 hold 66.625 gr of water.  With each case loaded to 90% cap. The 264 Mag loaded with 67.2 gr of H4831 has a vel of 3340 and the 6.5-284 loaded with 55 gr of H4831 has a vel of 3054. Which i will have to admit 286 fps is a bigger improvement than the 6mm-284 over the 6mm Rem. It take 12 more gr of powder to get this improvement.

The 264 mag is much greater improvement over the 6.5-284 than the 6mm-284 is over the 6mm but not that much in the real world of shooting .  Just my opinion from years of shooting and seeing that there isn't that much difference in trajectory in the same bullet when you are talking 80 to 200 or 300 fps in vel.

The vel is from a 24 inch barrel. :thumbs:



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 Posted: Fri May 6th, 2005 11:05 AM
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Hey fellas,I can understand some of the lack of interest in the 6mm-284.It has some less than favorable reviews in certain manuals.I have never owned a 6 mm-284 so I am not really qualified to defend it or take away from it.I do beleive as Max and Fifty stated that with 28 inch and longer barrels the 6mm-284 can be pushed to much higher velocity with the right powder.

Case in point for why it can be mistaken as a lacking round.

From the Hornady manual, and I quote word for word:


"The 6mm-284 has greater powder capacity than either the 6mm Remington or 243 Winchester,but velocity gains possible with the wildcat are marginal-at least in our test experience.

As interest in the 284 Winchester cartridge has waned , so has enthusiasm  for necking it down one millimeter to create the 6mm-284; and since the first 6mm-284`s were developed ,a newer 243 caliber cartridge has appeared on the commercial market-the 240 Weatherby Magnum.It is highly improbable that the 6mm-284, with its limited advantages relative to standard factory 6mm cartridges,will ever see commercial development".

Some of this writing is outdated and I took this from the Hornady manual,Sixth edition.But I can see why with writing such as this by Hornady that there is little interest in it.

Not for me though.After I seen some pics and a cartridge Max sent me...It just made me want one more.:thumbs:I like to have stuff that is different than what every body else has.I think thats the wildcatter side of me..:lol::wink:

I`ve loaded for both the 243 Win and the 6mm Rem,Its just natural I`d want to try a 6mm Wildcat..Good discussion gentlemen,makes for plenty of thought..:thumbs:



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 Posted: Fri May 6th, 2005 11:38 AM
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max
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bea,

I see where I made my mistake now.

Load from a disk. Good idea. Saves a man all the trouble of going to the range. Maybe I'll get one.

 



 Posted: Fri May 6th, 2005 12:58 PM
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Bea175,

From those numbers on the 6mm-284 I would agree with you.  I would also agree that with lighter bullets the two 6mm rounds are similiar but I also personally feel the 6mm-284 really needs to run in a 28" barrel or longer and it is at its very best with heavy VLD and ULD bullets.

My personal 6-284 has a 30" Lilja set up to shoot the 107 gr Smk.  Its favorite load drives this bullet to 3500 fps using Rl-22.  It can top 3600 fps if you run her real hard but there is no need.

Also, with light bullets, I have received performance reports from my customers recently that are flat out amazing.  One using a 28" Lilja chambered in 6-284 with a 1-12 twist barrel is driving the 71 gr Berger to 4050 fps and getting groups in the very low .2" range.

This same rifle is driving the 55 gr Ballistic Tip to 4440 fps and cutting groups in the high .1"s.  These loads were using Rl-19.  Now I have never seen the 6mm Rem get within 200 fps of these numbers but then again its only 200 fps.

The 6.5-284 is certainly a more userfriendly round, no question there.  I just am not convinced it is a higher performance round ballistically and as far as trajectory goes using heavy VLD bullets in the 6-284.

I would say both are excellent rounds designed for two very different purposes.  Directly comparing the two is like comparing the 7mm Rem Mag with the 338 Win Mag, two totally different beasts.

Good shooting!!

Kirby Allen(50)



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 Posted: Fri May 6th, 2005 02:32 PM
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I agree my statement was very broad. I have used both the 6mm and the 6mm-284 but have very limited experience with 284 version. I have the 240 Wby with  the 26 inch barrel and the 6mm Rem with the 22 inch tube. I shoot nothing but bullets under 100 gr and can't tell a lot of difference in the killing power between the two on deer . The Chrono shows difference. I don't do much shooting past 500 yards and very little these days at that range. I hunt mostly big game and won't take the chance on crippling by shooting at exstreme distant. My son just built a 264 Win Mag for deer hunting on a Montana Action and barrel and i told him to cut the barrel to 24 or 25 inch and i think he split the different. I will be useing it for deer hunting and will suffer the lost of vel for ease of carrying, because you do a lot more carrying than shooting. I never said the 6mm-284 was no good i was just saying in my own words i like the 6mm Rem better for what i use it for. I will agree that big cases need long barrel to get max preformance. I have never cared much about paper shooting and only do it to work up a load and to sight in or check zero. I quess you could say i'm a hunter 95% of the time and target shooter 5%. One more thing in the east finding 500 yards or more to shoot is not easy to do..:cool: My 6mm has the 1-12 twist Shilen SS match barrel and i had it marked 244 Rem on the barrel, now you know why i stay under 100 gr in this rifle.



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