| Posted: Fri Dec 16th, 2005 02:49 PM |
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grubbydug
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OK YOU GUYS !!
Though my search on this website didn't turn up a comparison of the .222 Rem and the .223 Rem, I'm sure this has been chewed on more than enough for most of you, so please be patient with me.
I'm liking the look of the CZ 527 that is available in .222 and .223 so, I'll get rid of some of the stuff I'm paying storage on and turn the cash into one of those. I'm not adverse to having a box of factory ammo on hand but, I will be handloading, of course.
I'd like to be able to use a wide range of bullet weights and thus it would be helpful to know what rate of twist there is in the CZ 527. Can't seem to get a response on this topic from the folks at CZ USA.... don't know what that is about.
It's not likely that I will be shooting animals of any kind unless I really NEED to bring a varmit to the stew pot, so it will be just shooting targets of various types. By the way, are there really folks out there who hunt deer with 22 caliber varmit rifles?
So, enlighten me as to the pros and cons of each and pass on any pet loads and observations about the CZ 527 if you own one.
grubbydug
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| Posted: Fri Dec 16th, 2005 04:30 PM |
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billt
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Grubbydug,
This is my CZ 527 LUX in .223. It's topped with a Leupold VX II 3-9X 40 MM sitting in CZ Steel rings. I would for sure choose the .223 over the .222 any day of the week. The main reason is ammo cost and availibility. Even if your not a handloader the .223 has far more ammo choices and priemum loadings avaliable for it. I'm "OK" with the CZ but to be honest it's a little too petite for my likeing. I like a "handfull of rifle" so to speak. The gun is very well made of nothing but blued steel and Walnut. No Aluminum or plastic. Accuracy for me has been fair to good, but again to be honest any of my wifes 3 AR's will out shoot it. I would never sell it, but I doubt I would buy another. The magazines are way overpriced and feed terrible. They scratch the cases badly and require a lot of bolt force to strip a round off into the chamber. I'm told the new magazines are plastic. I have 3, 1 came with the gun, plus I bought 2 extra. All 3 feed the same. I would rate the guns overall performance as "OK", but for what I've got tied up in it with scope and mounts, I could have another AR, which in my opinion is a better gun all the way around. billt.
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| Posted: Fri Dec 16th, 2005 05:00 PM |
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grubbydug
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billt,
Thanks for the input.. this is what I need, personal experience from you folks. I wonder if the plastic magazines would be easier on the cases ? Anyone have any clue as to the rate of twist ?
grubbydug
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| Posted: Fri Dec 16th, 2005 05:13 PM |
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billt
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grubbydug wrote: billt,
Thanks for the input.. this is what I need, personal experience from you folks. I wonder if the plastic magazines would be easier on the cases ? Anyone have any clue as to the rate of twist ?
grubbydug
The feed lips on the newer magazines are still made of steel. From what I can gather the follower and end cap have been changed to plastic. There is a fix for this, (magazines scratching cases), but I'm not sure where I saw it. If I find it I'll be sure to post it. The rate of twist for my CZ is, I believe, 1 turn in 9", R.H. It seems to stabilize all but the heaviest of .22 bullets. Don't get me wrong, if your in the market for a nice, light, "Walkabout" Varminter, the CZ does have good merit. It's just my feeling that if I had to do it all over again I'd go with a bolt gun from another manufacturer. Perhaps a Browning Micro Medallion A-Bolt, or else a Savage. Bill T.
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| Posted: Fri Dec 16th, 2005 08:45 PM |
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grubbydug
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Bill, Thanks for that and I will try to look at as many brands of rifles as I can before deciding.
Doug
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| Posted: Tue Dec 20th, 2005 02:51 AM |
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tunered
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dont overlook the tikka t3,they are 1-8 twist,made by sako. ed
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| Posted: Mon Jun 12th, 2006 05:49 PM |
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Vincent
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Two of the old fellows at our range, Owl hollow in Franklin, TN have the 527 in 223 and like them ver ymuch. Having seen their targets I can tell you it is not difficult to get 1/2 to 34" groups at one hundred yards.
Six weeks ago I bought a CZ527 American in a maple stock that is stunning. Mine is a 22 Hornet though. It has shot a number of .6 yo.7 " groups @ 100 and I can tell you from LONG exprience that ain't bad for a Hornet. Hornets are notoriously hard to get decent accuracy from. I am VERY fond of this petite little Blonde. By the way. The only magazines I have seen are all steel with a plastic floor plate.
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| Posted: Wed Jun 14th, 2006 02:08 AM |
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SoftwareJanitor
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Not familiar with that particular rifle, but between the .222 and .223 cartridge, I'd most assuredly go with the .223 if only for the fact that brass will be much easier and cheaper to find even if you reload instead of buying commercial ammo. You can find commercial ammo anywhere if you need to for .223, and .222 that is not true. There will be a lot more variety in commercial .223 loads in most stores as well. I've got two rifles in .223, and none in .222, so I can't say much about .222 from personal experience, but as far as the loading data goes, in general .223 loads seem to be a little higher in velocity due to the slightly larger usable case capacity. The .222 might have some theoretical accuracy advantages because of the longer bullet seating area of the case, but given that I've seen some incredibly accurate .223 rifles, even semi-auto ones, I'd tend to think that not much of a practical consideration.
CZ bolt actions have an excellent reputation, but for my money if I was buying a .22 caliber center fire bolt action, it would probably be a Savage in .223. Out of the box, from what I've seen Savage is hard to beat for accuacy for the buck.
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| Posted: Wed Jun 14th, 2006 04:45 PM |
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Vincent
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I would not argue with a thing you said with the possible except of the Savage. I do not own a .223 but it is the cartridge I recommend the most to newbies and in fact I recommend it in the Savage as a perfect first time centerfire combo. Having said that it is NOT what I would buy. I LIKE the .222. I have one, a really neat one. It is a Sako L46. That's right. NOT 461, L46, the first one, It is a custom rifle built many years ago by some unknown craftsman that really knew what he was doing. Beautiful stock (no checkering) and a med heavy Apex barrel. In is in many ways much like the 527 in that it is a rifle scaled down to the cartridge. If you buy a Savage, Rem 700, Win 70 or Ruger 77 you get a rifle that is needlessly large for the .222/.223. The Small Sako or more likely the CZ 527 are neat little rifles scaled to that size cartridge.
As far as the .222/.223 go my brain says buy the .223. My heart says buy the .222. I NEVER shoot factory ammo so I don't give a HOOT if the .223 is cheaper to shoot factory ammo or it is easier to get. Right now I still have 100 of the Federal Match brass that is nickle plated and that will keep me going for awhile. BUT I am going to open up my Midway Catalog and order 500 Rem .222 cases just like I did when I ordered 500 22 Hornets. There is NOTHING hard to find about it. In fact I think Iwill spring for the Nickle Plated Rem .222 and the next time I order Hornet cases they too will be Nickle Rem cases (the Rem cases also hold alot more powder in the Hornet). After working with the nickle Federal cases I really will never order plain brass again when plated brass is avaliable. I AM sort of broken hearted that I waited too long to get more of the Fed Match brass. So you see for me there is absolutely NO difference in ease of procurement between .222/.223.
So WHY .222? Well I know alot of folks will say it is more accurate than the .223 and it DOES still hold the all time small goup record in Benchrest Competition at .009" shot by McMillan years ago but in real life, in real guns there is NO difference. I know the .223 has a SLIGHT performance edge but truthfully it is much like the .222's accuracy edge.......not a big deal in real life. So why the .222? Because I like it, I like that it has history. I like that for 30 years it was THE accuracy round and it RULED B.R. I like that Mike Walker designed it. It wasn't just thrown togther to kill little men in pajamas in some far away land. I know it does not make sense but I prefer Brunettes to Blondes too and it would be hard to explain that too. The fact is you can not possibly go wrong with the .222 OR the .223 and the CZ 527 is a great launching pad for both of them. So is a certain little Sako. Oh one more thing I like. I will be 54 in two days and my Sako was built the same year I was. Off the subject but I also have a Crossman 112 Co2 pistol (custom) that was also built the same year I was, 1952. I like that. The .222 is a year or two older.
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| Posted: Mon Jun 19th, 2006 11:56 PM |
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72coupe
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Warning to Vincent.
Think about those nickel cases before you buy them. I have ruined 3 resizing dies with nickel cases. The nickel will flake of and permanently scratch the die and scratch every case you resize after that. The dies cannot be polished out.
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| Posted: Tue Jun 20th, 2006 04:43 AM |
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Vincent
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Thank you for the warning but the Federal Match cases have been fine for about 15 years but that does NOT mean I think you're wrong. I like them because they are so easy to take care of.
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| Posted: Tue Jun 27th, 2006 03:28 AM |
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tallyman
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I have two Remington 700BDL heavy barrel varmint rifles in calibers .223 topped with Leupold 10X scopes. My absolute best load is a Remington 55 grain hollow point in front of 21.7 grains of 4198. Both rifles throw this load under 1 inch at 100, sometimes under 1 inch at 200 yards. I sold my Rem 722 in .222 because I can duplicate any .222 load in the .223 including 40 grain hornet bullets. When you hunt prairie dogs in Colorado you need two rifles. You will overheat just one and the prairie dogs will give you the finger while you are waiting for the barrel to cool.
I also have a Remington Model Seven in .223 which makes a nice carry rifle for hunting coyotes. I use the same loads in it and it also shoots very well for the first 3 or 4 rounds, but not the consistant one inch groups I get with the BDLs.
The CZ is a nice rifle but I do not like the box hanging down in front of the trigger guard. Guess I'm just old fashioned. Plus I don't think you will find a more accurate "out of the box" rifle than the Remington heavy barrel varminters.
Whether you get a carry rifle or shooting rifle, get a .223 or two, or three. The .222 is obsolete.
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| Posted: Tue Jun 27th, 2006 12:43 PM |
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72coupe
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If your model 7 is stringing shots as it warms up you might consider sending it to 300 Below for Cryo treatment. I had the same problem with a 788 in 22-250 and sent it to them. Cured the problem.
Since I have sent several rifles including some I bought for bargain prices because other people could not get them to shoot.
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| Posted: Tue Jun 27th, 2006 03:08 PM |
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tallyman
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I have 3 Remington Model Sevens - .223, .243. .308 - and they all shoot well out of a cold barrel. The fourth or fifth shot starts to walk in each of them. I don't have a problem with this because they are hunting rifles and I rarely need more than one or two shots in quick succession. Attachment: Rem Model Seven.jpg (Downloaded 31 times)
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| Posted: Tue Jun 27th, 2006 08:11 PM |
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72coupe
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I agree that few rifles need to fire 10 shots into the same hole. Varmint rifles are the exception. I think that most Remingtons have some sort of stress problem that shows up as they warm up.
300 Hundred Below can cure this problem for a few dollars.
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| Posted: Wed Jun 28th, 2006 11:04 AM |
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Timberghozt
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I like the ole 222 but have to agree with some of the sentiments expressed here.Unless you just have the money to buy multiple rifles or want them.Go with the 223 Rem.Brass is everywhere,ammunition otc is everywhere..The 223 Rem is my primary calling rifle and brass availability is why I had my second 223 Rem reamed to 223 AI.Top notch predator and varmint round and here in Texas is used more than you would think as a whitetail cartridge.With good shot placement and the correct bullet, very effectively.THE 223 is hard to beat IMHO.
The triple deuce will always be a legend.Sadly its day is over though...
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