The Handloaders Bench Home
Home Search search Menu menu Not logged in - Login | Register

Attention: Due to an increase in spammers all new members will be activated manually by an administrator, and start out as probationary members. You will only be able to start a welcome post in the welcome new members forum. You can reply to all other posts. Once you have reached 5 posts you will be a full member and can start topics. We apologize for the inconvenience but spammers are becoming a real problem. We are also experiencing problems with new members receiving activation emails. We are manually activating new members. Please be patient with us. We will activate your membership within 24 hours of registration. We are sorry for any inconvenience this might cause. HB Admin

.30/338 Winchester Mag
 Moderated by: Slingshot, Rockydog, klallen, DesertMarine, -6 Page:    1  2  Next Page Last Page  
 New Topic   Reply   Printer Friendly 
 Rating:  Rating
AuthorPost
 Posted: Sun Sep 25th, 2011 04:50 PM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
1st Post
Nelson
Junior Member
 

Joined: Thu Dec 30th, 2010
Location: Nebraska USA
Posts: 17
Photo: 
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: rifle
My favorite chambering is:: .30/06
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

Just picked up a .30/338 Win Mag. Winchester Model 70 Magnum, medium taper barrel finished at 24-1/2", hand made custom walnut stock, fully glass bedded action, free floated barrel. Gun was built by the gentleman who's estate I bought it from who was a professional gunsmith for his entire professional life. I also purchased his stock of 36 loaded bullets. Unfortunately no loading data came with the gun or the ammo. I have located some loading data for it online so I have some place to start at least. I took apart one of the loaded rounds and it had a 180g Sierra SPT bullet on top of 73.5g of extruded powder (maybe 4831??) the rifle shot a .547" 5 shot group at 100 yards so I would like to use this as a starting point if possible. Ordered my shell holder, trim plate, and die set. Any of you guys or gals have any experience with this round??? I have read several places that it is similar to the .308 Norma Mag, but I hesitate to substitute data EVER. TIA



____________________
I guess or something


 Posted: Mon Sep 26th, 2011 01:59 PM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
2nd Post
300 SAUM
Full Member


Joined: Fri Feb 11th, 2005
Location: Custer, Michigan USA
Posts: 77
Photo: [Download]
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: I load everything!
My favorite chambering is:: 7mm Mag / .338 Win Mag
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

I have made up a load for my .338 WM using 66.8 grains of the newer Reloader #17 powder and 225 grain Nosler Accubonds setting on top that work very well out of my rifle that I use for Elk hunting.

I would not try double guessing the brand powder that is being used in the rounds you received with your rifle. Always best to KNOW the powders your trying to duplicate or risk an unfortunate outcome,..



____________________
Shoot Straight & Stay Safe!
Terry Webster
NAHC / NAFC L.M.
REMF - Sponsoring Member
NRA L.M.
SCI Member
U.S. Army Nam' Veteran 1st/327th/101st AB


 Posted: Mon Sep 26th, 2011 03:58 PM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
3rd Post
swampshooter
Moderator
 

Joined: Sun Aug 3rd, 2008
Location: Texas USA
Posts: 5250
Photo: 
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: I load everything!
My favorite chambering is:: .204 Ruger
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

Nelson, the .30/338 and the .308 Norma are basically the same cartridge, but the throat is longer in the .308 Norma. Also the .308 Norma case is slightly longer in the body. They are not interchangeable. Sierra's 1978 manual lists both cartridges, but shows much larger powder charges for the .308 Norma, which normally had a long freebore ala Weatherby, normally about 1/2 inch, which was detrimental to accuracy. Normally, as was the practice of the time, if a chamber had a shorter throat in order to aid accuracy, it was marked .30/338. Therefor loading data for the .308 Norma is not safe to use in a .30/338.

The 1978 Sierra manual shows 73.3 grs. of H-4831 with all three of their 180 grain bullets that they made back in 1978. Super X .338 case necked down to .30. W-W-81/2-120 primer.
Case neck diameter can be tricky with this cartridge, make sure that if you neck .338's down that your necks don't wind up too thick. Might be easier to neck up 7mm Remington Magnums and then you don't have to worry about neck thickness.


In 1968 both the Wimbledon cup and the Leech Cup were won by a .30/338 firing 190 gr, Sierra bullets ahead of 66 grs. of IMR 4350.  It really is a splendid cartridge.

The 30/338 was originated in 1959, only one year or less after the introduction of the .338 Winchester Magnum. The .308 Norma originated in 1960. The .300 Winchester Magnum, 1963.    Target shooters, read 1,000 yard shooters, did not like the short neck of the .300 Winchester mag., so the .30/338 remained popular for a number of years.

Last edited on Mon Sep 26th, 2011 08:16 PM by swampshooter



____________________
NRA Endowment member
NRA Range Technical Team Advisor
Texas State Rifle Association Member
NRA certified pistol coach


 Posted: Tue Sep 27th, 2011 12:06 PM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
4th Post
Nelson
Junior Member
 

Joined: Thu Dec 30th, 2010
Location: Nebraska USA
Posts: 17
Photo: 
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: rifle
My favorite chambering is:: .30/06
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

Thank you for the replies. My loading dies should be here in a few days so I can get started. I'm going to try to work up some conservative loads with IMR 4350, IMR 4831SSC and Alliant 17 and 19 to see what shows the most consistency and go from there. 



____________________
I guess or something


 Posted: Wed Sep 28th, 2011 05:08 PM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
5th Post
Paul B
Master Handloader
 

Joined: Sun Sep 30th, 2007
Location:  
Posts: 4735
Photo: 
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: I load everything!
My favorite chambering is:: 
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

The latest Sierra manual has daya for the 30-338 Mag.
Paul B.



 Posted: Wed Sep 28th, 2011 09:37 PM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
6th Post
Nelson
Junior Member
 

Joined: Thu Dec 30th, 2010
Location: Nebraska USA
Posts: 17
Photo: 
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: rifle
My favorite chambering is:: .30/06
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

Nice!! I'm headed to pick that up right now!!! It only figures it would be in there since I don't have THAT manual....



____________________
I guess or something


 Posted: Wed Sep 28th, 2011 11:36 PM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
7th Post
swampshooter
Moderator
 

Joined: Sun Aug 3rd, 2008
Location: Texas USA
Posts: 5250
Photo: 
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: I load everything!
My favorite chambering is:: .204 Ruger
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

Don't feel bad Nelson, I don't have it either, hence didn't know what was in it.



____________________
NRA Endowment member
NRA Range Technical Team Advisor
Texas State Rifle Association Member
NRA certified pistol coach


 Posted: Thu Sep 29th, 2011 04:46 AM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
8th Post
rainyday
Senior Member


Joined: Fri Apr 16th, 2010
Location: Everett, Washington USA
Posts: 2027
Photo: [Download]
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: none
My favorite chambering is:: 338 win mag,45/70 ...
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

go online to hodgdon and you can look up powder and powder charges there



____________________
life member of the NRA


 Posted: Sat Nov 26th, 2011 09:49 PM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
9th Post
Nelson
Junior Member
 

Joined: Thu Dec 30th, 2010
Location: Nebraska USA
Posts: 17
Photo: 
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: rifle
My favorite chambering is:: .30/06
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

Update on the 30/338 Winchester Magnum. Got started working up some loads for the .30/338 using the Hornady 180g SST. So far I've tried IMR 4350, Reloder 17, Reloder 19, H 4831SC and IMR 7828 SC. I have shot each powder in 1/10th grain increments up to the point of seeing primer sign. I have also shot each load from on the lands to jumping .015" in .002" increments. All loads shot at 100 yards from a caldwell lead sled. Long story short I haven't been able to find anything that is even MOA. Throat looks to be in very good shape. I clean in between each 5 shot group and allow the barrel to cool for 10 full minutes after each group. Barrel is a 10 twist so I am going to try the 230g Berger OTM hybrid with each of those powders listed above and additionally Reloder mag pro 4000.



____________________
I guess or something


 Posted: Sat Nov 26th, 2011 10:41 PM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
10th Post
drysonly
Full Member
 

Joined: Thu Nov 10th, 2011
Location:  
Posts: 127
Photo: 
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: rifle
My favorite chambering is:: 257 Weatherby ...
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

I have owned either a 308 Norma or a 30-338 since the 60's,both are very good rounds.The Norma will accept a little more powder than the 30-338.I looked up some of my loads from the past and with a 24 inch barrel it chronographed 3028fps with a 180 Nosler part using 70 grs of IMR-4350,this may be a bit to much to start in your rifle,so I suggest a %5 reduction..The Norma shoots faster but with more powder and a longer barrel of 26 inches.You will be happy with this round.You can drop down to 165 gr bullets for Deer or 180 grs for Elk.



 Posted: Sun Nov 27th, 2011 07:05 PM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
11th Post
Nelson
Junior Member
 

Joined: Thu Dec 30th, 2010
Location: Nebraska USA
Posts: 17
Photo: 
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: rifle
My favorite chambering is:: .30/06
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

Thanks for the reply. I have shot IMR 4350 from
67.0 up to my rifles max of 69.6 using the 180g Hornady SST. Chronograph was at 3149 to 3162 fps for the max load. All the IMR 4350 loads were first firing virgin Winchester 338 brass full length sized to 30/338 and trimmed to 2.490". I do notice the difference in a case that was newly formed and the fire-formed result. Now that I have 100 plus cases that are fire formed I may re-visit a couple of the loads in IMR 4350 as several guys have suggested it as a default place to start looking for the 30/338 win mag. I suspect there may have been an issue with alignment yaw that effected the groups due to less than ideal chamber to case dimensional variance. The fire-formed case is very noticeably sharper at the shoulder and neck than the virgin full length sized brass. I will re-try the "best" loads and seating depths and see what happens. I have 200 of the Berger 230g OTM bullets scheduled to be delivered on Tuesday in addition I have a couple hundred of the Lapua 167g Scenar bullets and a few hundred of the Nosler 150g Ballistic Tips that I use in my .30/06. If I can't find anything that it likes to shoot I guess I'll re-barrel it and chamber it in 6.5mm/338



____________________
I guess or something


 Posted: Sun Nov 27th, 2011 09:15 PM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
12th Post
swampshooter
Moderator
 

Joined: Sun Aug 3rd, 2008
Location: Texas USA
Posts: 5250
Photo: 
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: I load everything!
My favorite chambering is:: .204 Ruger
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

Nelson, I wouldn't get hung up on insisting on MOA accuracy. It's not really a prairie dog or rock chuck rifle. If it will shoot 2 MOA and hold it out to 3 or 4 hundred yards it would be an excellant hunting rifle. Many of these rifles need a firm consistent hold in order to group well. Normally it takes a while for the shooter to learn how to get the best groups from a particular magnum rifle. My magnum rifles don't group well when shot in a lead sled. Maybe try a different rest with a small sissy bag.

Last edited on Sun Nov 27th, 2011 09:21 PM by swampshooter



____________________
NRA Endowment member
NRA Range Technical Team Advisor
Texas State Rifle Association Member
NRA certified pistol coach


 Posted: Sun Nov 27th, 2011 10:39 PM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
13th Post
RobertMT
Senior Member


Joined: Sat Jan 17th, 2009
Location: Columbia Falls, MT
Posts: 3028
Photo: 
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: rifle
My favorite chambering is:: 270wsm ...
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

Before I gave up on rifle, I'd try a plain jane, flat base 180gr bullet, it could be your rifle doesn't like boat tails. If I had to guess what powder was used in old loads, it would be RL22.

Most 300s will shoot a 180gr flat based bullet at least fair and since it was shooting old loads good, you know it's capable. I don't personally like lead sleds, but if it shot old loads @ 1/2", unless lead sled cracked stock or bedding, rifle is still capable of under 1 moa.

Have you checked stock bolts? Maybe they have loosened up, under lead sleds abuse.



____________________
CLINTON RUINED A DRESS
OBAMA RUINED A NATION


 Posted: Mon Nov 28th, 2011 01:13 AM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
14th Post
Nelson
Junior Member
 

Joined: Thu Dec 30th, 2010
Location: Nebraska USA
Posts: 17
Photo: 
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: rifle
My favorite chambering is:: .30/06
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

Good catch. I haven't checked the torque in the last 60 plus rounds. Fwiw it held torque setting from the first time I broke down the rifle when I brought it home to make certain everything was good to go before I fired it the first time. Torque was 30 inch pounds on each when I brought it home. I torqued both screws to 30 inch pounds in 10 inch pound increments on re-assemy. I then shot a couple groups with the ammo that came with the rifle. It shot those loads very nicely. I fired about 100 rounds of various loads after that initial tear down to the next time I tore it down. My buddy thought maybe something got in between the bedding and the action, so I tore it down and verified it was a clean 1 to 1 fit and retorqued again to 30 inch pounds as before. I will have to give the flat base bullets a try as well as it shot has only proven to shoot those well so far with accuracy. Next trip to the range I will man up and shoot off sandbags. I had not previously heard that the "sled" could damage a rifle.



____________________
I guess or something


 Posted: Wed Nov 30th, 2011 02:54 PM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
15th Post
Paul B
Master Handloader
 

Joined: Sun Sep 30th, 2007
Location:  
Posts: 4735
Photo: 
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: I load everything!
My favorite chambering is:: 
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

OK, you checked the stock screws. How about the ones for the scope and bases? The instructions for my Fat Wrench state 40 inch pounds for wood or synthetic stocks and 60 inch ounds for pillar bedded rifles. IIRC, scope screws should be 20 inch pounds. (I'm too lazy to run out to my shed to confirm that last one. :shameon:
Paul B.



 Posted: Wed Nov 30th, 2011 10:36 PM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
16th Post
RobertMT
Senior Member


Joined: Sat Jan 17th, 2009
Location: Columbia Falls, MT
Posts: 3028
Photo: 
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: rifle
My favorite chambering is:: 270wsm ...
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

"I had not previously heard that the "sled" could damage a rifle."

Some say it can, some say it wouldn't. I look at it this way, even if you don't add 50lbs of weight to it, just the lead sled effectively, adds 10lbs to rifle and while that reduces recoil, it adds strain on stock and action screws. If you add the 50lds, rifle soaks up the energy, not the shooter, that's a lot of energy to be absorbed by a couple of bolts and wood surrounding holes.



____________________
CLINTON RUINED A DRESS
OBAMA RUINED A NATION


 Posted: Thu Dec 1st, 2011 05:34 AM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
17th Post
rainyday
Senior Member


Joined: Fri Apr 16th, 2010
Location: Everett, Washington USA
Posts: 2027
Photo: [Download]
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: none
My favorite chambering is:: 338 win mag,45/70 ...
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

i use a lead sled with my 338 and have put alot of rounds off a lead sled and so far no damage to my gun or any of my friends. it may of been operator error



____________________
life member of the NRA


 Posted: Thu Dec 1st, 2011 09:25 AM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
18th Post
swampshooter
Moderator
 

Joined: Sun Aug 3rd, 2008
Location: Texas USA
Posts: 5250
Photo: 
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: I load everything!
My favorite chambering is:: .204 Ruger
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

There are many,many reasons that can cause a good shooting rifle to go sour. It would require an entire book to discuss them all.



____________________
NRA Endowment member
NRA Range Technical Team Advisor
Texas State Rifle Association Member
NRA certified pistol coach


 Posted: Thu Dec 1st, 2011 03:08 PM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
19th Post
Nelson
Junior Member
 

Joined: Thu Dec 30th, 2010
Location: Nebraska USA
Posts: 17
Photo: 
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: rifle
My favorite chambering is:: .30/06
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

That's well put. That rifle seems to only shoot the loads that came with it well. Each time I try a new combination of powder charge, seating depth, or primer and have less than acceptable accuracy I just shoot a group using the bullets that came along with the rifle and watch it steer them half MOA. Today I'm going to try the 230 Berger hybrid OTM using IMR 4350 from 63.5 up to 65.4 in .1 incriments. Those should be running 2700 to 2800. There should also be room to safely add powder if there looks to be a node developing. I also have six other loads to shoot today with the Hornady 180 SST today, if it doesn't find a good grouping I will be able to safely say I've tried everything I can try to find accuracy with that bullet. I will take a long look at the flat base bullets next if I can't make it shoot boattails. I hope to learn some more today. At least I'm having fun!



____________________
I guess or something


 Posted: Thu Dec 1st, 2011 04:13 PM
   PM  Quote  Reply 
20th Post
RobertMT
Senior Member


Joined: Sat Jan 17th, 2009
Location: Columbia Falls, MT
Posts: 3028
Photo: 
Are you a handloader?: Yes
Favorite type of cartridge to load?: rifle
My favorite chambering is:: 270wsm ...
Status: 
Offline

  back to top

"Each time I try a new combination of powder charge, seating depth, or primer and have less than acceptable accuracy I just shoot a group using the bullets that came along with the rifle and watch it steer them half MOA."

Have you shot these over chrony? Have you checked your sized cases against these? Your COAL against these? Have you tried the Sierra 180gr SPT? If you had same speed, with same bullet, case sized the same, rifle should shoot close to the same. Maybe his dies, where sized better, to reamer he used on rifle. Maybe he only neck sized cases?

I would try to match, what worked, as close as possible, before going off on my own.



____________________
CLINTON RUINED A DRESS
OBAMA RUINED A NATION


 Current time is 03:59 AMPage:    1  2  Next Page Last Page  
Top




UltraBB 1.17 Copyright © 2007-2008 Data 1 Systems
Page processed in 0.2421 seconds (18% database + 82% PHP). 26 queries executed.