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357/38 for Rossi Lever Action
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 Posted: Thu Aug 9th, 2012 01:28 AM
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ewarshaw
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Hi Folks,

I bought a Rossi lever action 357 rifle. One of the complaints I've seen about it is that when you shoot 38 through it, it can mess up the chambering on the 357 cartridge.
If I want to shoot 38 power, is there any reason why I couldn't load 38 data into 357 brass?
Thanks.



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 Posted: Thu Aug 9th, 2012 01:36 AM
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swampratt
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I have used light loads of HP38 and my lee 158 gas checked lee alox lubed bullet..it weighs closer to 170gr cast from wheel weights
I have used 4.2 and 4.4 gr and the best accuracy is with 5.1 from my revolver..still light loads..well the 5.1 is medium..and now my most accurate and fun load. cci 500 primers. All in 357 cases.. 231 would be the same as HP38 i think, so i have read.



 Posted: Thu Aug 9th, 2012 02:10 AM
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Plainsman
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You'd have to shoot a lot of .38s to create problems for your chamber. But sticking to .357 cases will probably give you better accuracy. No problem with using 38 loads in 357 cases, but the ballistics won't be exactly the same.



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 Posted: Thu Aug 9th, 2012 04:57 AM
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runfiverun
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some of the rossi's won't feed 38 cases anyway.
some won't shoot heavy boolits either.
go with the 357 cases and a flat point boolit.
you might need to bump the load a tenth or two depending on the powder.



 Posted: Thu Aug 9th, 2012 05:06 AM
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ewarshaw
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Thank you kindly.



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This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief.
-1 Timothy 1:15


 Posted: Thu Aug 9th, 2012 07:13 AM
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A pause for the COZ
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Oh man welcome to the Rossi club. Fun little gun to shoot.
Here is what your gona find.
They do not like heavy bullets. 1 in 30 twist rate will see to that.
158 gr is about the max your gona get to fly, out to about 50 yards.
After that they will start to key hole.

As for shooting 38 special loads out of 357 cases. They shoot ok, but not near as accurate as when using 38 special cases. Your changing the pressure of the load going to a longer case. I haven't really tried it though. Spent too much time pulling may hair out trying to get 180gr pills to fly.:rolleyes:

Best loads I have are:
357 mag:
125gr JFP ahead of 2400, off top of my head cant remember how much 2400 but can look. These shoot real well out to 100 yards.

155gr swc gas checked sized .358. Ahead of 10 gr Blue dot. Pretty good little whacker. 2400 works too.

38 special:

158gr rnfp sized to .358 5gr of Unique. Shoots real well out to 50 yards. Starts to key hole after that.

Best all around load for that rifle is.
LEE 125 gr rnfp sized to .358 ahead of 5 gr of Herco.
4 gr of Unique works too just not as nice a group.
These have been doing well out to 100 yards.( might do better but I can hardly see the target at a 100 any way.)




Another good bullet to go after is the LEE 105 gr swc.
Very accurate 50 yard plinker.
Unique seems to do best. Although I did get pretty good results with Bullseye.
I have this one shooting real real well at 50 yards at lower velocities.
I have been working to get it out to 100 yards, But they loose too much steam that far out. Not even hitting paper. Tried them faster with Herco. Nah no good, Hit paper just not where I wanted them. More tinkering is in store for that bullet.

Moral is: 125 gr bullets are what this gun likes. A hog hunter it is not.
A 1 in 16 twist would have been great for that.








Last edited on Thu Aug 9th, 2012 07:37 AM by A pause for the COZ



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 Posted: Thu Aug 9th, 2012 01:23 PM
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Plainsman
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As for shooting 38 special loads out of 357 cases. They shoot ok, but not near as accurate as when using 38 special cases.

COZ, this is something you have tried and verified yourself? I ask because it doesn't square with my experience, as mentioned, nor even theoretically. (I know you say you haven't tried it but I'm still not clear and wanted to be sure.)



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 Posted: Thu Aug 9th, 2012 01:38 PM
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-6
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Watching the info intently as a 357 lever is on my wish list.



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 Posted: Thu Aug 9th, 2012 03:17 PM
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Hillbilly
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I don't know about COZ, but I don't see any differences in accuracy drop off using 357 cases with 38 loads over using a 38 load in a 38...the case is only a tiny bit longer anyway. Chrony data shows negligible difference in fps and target off sandbags shows nothing different than the groups I normally shoot.

Of course, I'm shooting a Marlin.....



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 Posted: Thu Aug 9th, 2012 03:50 PM
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swampratt
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I had noticed a difference in my 357 revolver with accuracy .
But that was when i was using a .358" sized bullet that went through the cylinder throat that was .357"

I will test my revolver one more time when i get the firing pin ...I know this is not the Rossie..but



 Posted: Thu Aug 9th, 2012 04:51 PM
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Plainsman
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1/10" is a heckuva lot in this business.



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 Posted: Thu Aug 9th, 2012 05:35 PM
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Hillbilly
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Well, maybe it's just me, but that 1/10" don't make it any easier or harder to hit the target.



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 Posted: Thu Aug 9th, 2012 05:51 PM
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Plainsman
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I'm thinking strictly of freebore and the "traditions" thereof.



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 Posted: Thu Aug 9th, 2012 06:02 PM
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A pause for the COZ
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Plainsman wrote: As for shooting 38 special loads out of 357 cases. They shoot ok, but not near as accurate as when using 38 special cases.

COZ, this is something you have tried and verified yourself? I ask because it doesn't square with my experience, as mentioned, nor even theoretically. (I know you say you haven't tried it but I'm still not clear and wanted to be sure.)

Yea your right, I still have work to do on them. The only ones I tried were the 158gr rnfp.
It was not the same load. 5gr Unique in the 38 special cases and 6 gr Unique in the 357 cases.
The 5 gr load was considerably more accurate.
But as I said I had not tried 5 gr unique in 357 cases.
Hmmmm some thing to do.
Try my125gr, 5 gr Herco gang buster in the 357 case.

Last edited on Thu Aug 9th, 2012 06:02 PM by A pause for the COZ



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 Posted: Thu Aug 9th, 2012 06:09 PM
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A pause for the COZ
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Hillbilly wrote: I don't know about COZ, but I don't see any differences in accuracy drop off using 357 cases with 38 loads over using a 38 load in a 38...the case is only a tiny bit longer anyway. Chrony data shows negligible difference in fps and target off sandbags shows nothing different than the groups I normally shoot.

Of course, I'm shooting a Marlin.....

That is not a insignificant difference. Not necessarily to this particular discusion though.
But man it sure would be nice to sling some heavies.

You know I haven't tried any Jacketed heavies. I wonder if I push them faster if it can negate the 1 in 30 twist rate and stabilize them????
Ahhh I would be just sitting my self up for a key hole parade at 100 yards.




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It just dulls the shovel so its harder to dig out when you finally get around to it." Said by Me


 Posted: Thu Aug 9th, 2012 06:33 PM
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saddlesore
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The only significant problems with the 38 case is that you most likley get a crud ring at the end of the chamber that will have to be cleaned out before shooting .357, IF you shoot a lot of them. The other is some Rossi's won't feed 38 reliably.Other than that you can get  the same accuracy if you work at it.

.357 cases, 158 cast flat nose. 4.5-4.7 gr of either W231, Unique, or Universal Clays for plinking.

Serious loads,14 gr 2400 and a .158 gr Hornady XTP



 Posted: Thu Aug 9th, 2012 06:39 PM
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swampratt
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Yes that 14gr of 2400 is serious.
I used 13.5gr with the lee 158 cast and got 1376fps from a 6" barrel
LiL Gun shoots that speed also...Was a good load for 100-200+ yards from my 6" barrel no keyholing..12" groups at 100

The light 4.4 gr load of HP38 was good under 30 yards but went to crap at 100 yards..All fliers usually 4-6 feet apart.
Those were probably key holing..
Have not tried any over a crony since i have sized them to .357"



 Posted: Thu Aug 9th, 2012 06:53 PM
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A pause for the COZ
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I have new ones to try out. The 357 fairy came by.
I was talking to this guy about reloading. He said he quit reloading and had a box of bullets in his shop that he wont ever use. Did I want them?

Ahhh yea!!!!

Nice partial box of Winchester 158 gr jhp's. FREE!!!!

Cant wait to try them out.






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It just dulls the shovel so its harder to dig out when you finally get around to it." Said by Me


 Posted: Thu Aug 9th, 2012 07:45 PM
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Plainsman
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In order to resolve the cartridge-length vs. accuracy differences out of a .357 chamber you would have to actually test the loads, probably normalizing them for speed with a chronograph. My own feeling is that it doesn't make much difference, but that's just "narrative" rather than empirical evidence and therefore worthless.

I have shot literally thousands of .38 Special loads out of several different .357 revolvers with no resulting problems at all. Once the fouling ahead of the .38 case is removed (always an easy job) there was no resistance to a .357 case whatsoever.



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 Posted: Thu Aug 9th, 2012 10:49 PM
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ewarshaw
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I am shooting mostly 158 gr JHPs. My Rossi has been 100% reliable with both 38 and 357. I do believe the Crud Ring is the problem I read about. Doesn't seem like a big issue, from what everyone is saying in this thread.
It's a nice shooting gun, and I haven't had any issues yet (except the feedramp is so tight, it dug a hole in my thumb).



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