Big John
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Wyo, the only reason I am so adamant is they are touting this bullet as being a good long range bullet....... and with groups in the size you mentioned at long range 600yds and out they would be terrible. Sounds like some more R&D should have been done before they went on the market, as you said they are expensive nearly twice as much as Hornady's SST's. Don't get me wrong I would pay the money for them IF they were better than any others. Hmmm well let us know how the other tests go, the weight difference is almost like they used an adhesive for the core? Oh well.
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wyo300rum
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Big John wrote: Wyo, the only reason I am so adamant is they are touting this bullet as being a good long range bullet....... and with groups in the size you mentioned at long range 600yds and out they would be terrible. Sounds like some more R&D should have been done before they went on the market, as you said they are expensive nearly twice as much as Hornady's SST's. Don't get me wrong I would pay the money for them IF they were better than any others. Hmmm well let us know how the other tests go, the weight difference is almost like they used an adhesive for the core? Oh well.
Hey Big John, I'm not a Barnes Rep or anything. I'm not that loyal to them ! I thought it would be a great bullet too. Maybe they would be better with not such a hot load but hell,their XBT and TSX shot very well with the same load. I'll try some different powders with them and maybe lower a couple grains with the loads I did try. I read their little flyer that was in the box and they recommened using the same load data as the other X bullets. They even say because of the reduced bearing surface/pressures compared to regular X bullets (like the TSX) it may be possible to exceed max listed load by 1 or 2 grs. I went up to 4.5 grs over with my 300 RUM with the 180 gr. TSX. From 100.5 grs. to 105.0 grs. of Hogdon Retumbo before I got pressure signs. I stuck w/100.0 grs. because I was getting .75 in. grps. with it and they got worse as it got higher.At 3650 fps, I was happy.The other thing would be contributing to it is that they recommend seating the bullet 0.030 to 0.070" off the lands. I may be too close. Since the MRZ is a little shorter in length, It's not as big a deal to seat the bullet a little deeper is my thoughts. What do you think or any suggestions Big John ? Thety also say neck tension is important. If the bullet is seated too far out of the case, it won't grip the bullet firmly , causing inconsistant ignition and poor accuracy. The min. amount of full diameter bullet shank gripped shouls be 2/3 of the bullet... example, a .308 bullet should have a min. of 0.205" (.308" x 2/3) of full diameter bullet shank in contact with the neck case. I just measured it and it looks more like 2/3 out of the case. I'm at the second groove wich is about .50 in. from the base. I have to seat them deeper ? That would give me more roam off the lands though. Maybe they need to be seated deeper ? Maybe that would make the already accurate TSX even more ? They are longer too. What does anybody think about all this info overload ? Don
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Force_Recon_Marine
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Hey Wyo, I think it is just going to be of those things you are going to have to try and try again until you find the sweet spot. With so many variables involved who knows for sure. It stinks because it is going to cost you 1.50 per projectile. Thats the only solution I can think of.
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sdb777
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If you could find enough people that wanted these bullets(good luck)...maybe a group buy would be the best way to get what you want.
Order of, let's say 5,000(or more) projectiles, then get a fresh set of batteries, and sort bullets into weight groups. Send out everyone else's projectiles and still be able to get a consistant batch for all that have joined into the group buy. Then you could discount the weight difference of the projectiles and seek answers in other parts of the handload.....
Of course, sorting 5,000(or more) bullets into weight groups would really suck for whomever had to do the sorting, but it's the only option I could think of at this time.
Scott (don't have the answers, but I have an opinion) B
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Big John
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wyo300rum wrote: Big John wrote: Wyo, the only reason I am so adamant is they are touting this bullet as being a good long range bullet....... and with groups in the size you mentioned at long range 600yds and out they would be terrible. Sounds like some more R&D should have been done before they went on the market, as you said they are expensive nearly twice as much as Hornady's SST's. Don't get me wrong I would pay the money for them IF they were better than any others. Hmmm well let us know how the other tests go, the weight difference is almost like they used an adhesive for the core? Oh well.
Hey Big John, I'm not a Barnes Rep or anything. I'm not that loyal to them ! I thought it would be a great bullet too. Maybe they would be better with not such a hot load but hell,their XBT and TSX shot very well with the same load. I'll try some different powders with them and maybe lower a couple grains with the loads I did try. I read their little flyer that was in the box and they recommened using the same load data as the other X bullets. They even say because of the reduced bearing surface/pressures compared to regular X bullets (like the TSX) it may be possible to exceed max listed load by 1 or 2 grs. I went up to 4.5 grs over with my 300 RUM with the 180 gr. TSX. From 100.5 grs. to 105.0 grs. of Hogdon Retumbo before I got pressure signs. I stuck w/100.0 grs. because I was getting .75 in. grps. with it and they got worse as it got higher.At 3650 fps, I was happy.The other thing would be contributing to it is that they recommend seating the bullet 0.030 to 0.070" off the lands. I may be too close. Since the MRZ is a little shorter in length, It's not as big a deal to seat the bullet a little deeper is my thoughts. What do you think or any suggestions Big John ? Thety also say neck tension is important. If the bullet is seated too far out of the case, it won't grip the bullet firmly , causing inconsistant ignition and poor accuracy. The min. amount of full diameter bullet shank gripped shouls be 2/3 of the bullet... example, a .308 bullet should have a min. of 0.205" (.308" x 2/3) of full diameter bullet shank in contact with the neck case. I just measured it and it looks more like 2/3 out of the case. I'm at the second groove wich is about .50 in. from the base. I have to seat them deeper ? That would give me more roam off the lands though. Maybe they need to be seated deeper ? Maybe that would make the already accurate TSX even more ? They are longer too. What does anybody think about all this info overload ? Don
Wyo I meant no inferance (Barnes Rep or anything) I was thinking about buying some of the new bullets however; if they are not performing as reported by Barnes I will hold off a while and see how things turn out. I am not busting you chops or anything just curious where they are failing in the weight. I will have to give them a call or something. Oh I have been told I am ANAL!!!! when it comes to reloading so it is probably just me. LOL.
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wyo300rum
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Hey Big John, I know you aren't bustin' my chops or anything ! I glad you are concerned. I was throwing things out there to see if you had any ideas. You are the only one who was thinking of using them. Force, that's just what I'm going to do. Seat them a little deeper too. John , I was just ribbin' ya about the Rep thing. I just meant to show you that shooting Barnes isn't a big thing to me. I'm not for their defense at all. I apprciate all of your input. I'm anal about a lot of things too ! Don
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wyo300rum
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Big John, A couple nights ago I was getting some extra bullets and cases to send to Force Recon and I thought to way some other Barnes bullets. I've had these for a few years too. Weighed some 130 gr. 7mm XBT and out of 20 I only found 1 that was 130.1. Weighed some 140 gr. 7mm XBT Moly coated. out of 17 (all I had) 2 only weighed 140.2 and one 140.1. . I weighed 20 .30 cal. 180 gr. TSX. Had 4 that weighed between 180.1 and 180.4. I don't know what's up with the MRX. I have one other unopened box of 20 MRX's. I'm going to weigh them and see if there is any difference. I'll let you know. Don
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Force_Recon_Marine
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That MRX just sounds like bad news. And for what they cost... They should half inch at 100 yards for that kind of money.
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wyo300rum
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Some of the Barnes I weighed out last night I sent in the box to you. I'm stickin with the TSX.
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22nd, 2007 03:20 AM |
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robk
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not sure if i answered this before but i have hard time with using other than my tsx bullets. they fly extremely well and open very well out to longer yardage with no problems. i tried the mrx and went back to the tsx
rob k
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22nd, 2007 03:51 AM |
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wyo300rum
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Well I don't feel alone then . Thanks. They shot like crap compared to the TSX. Too much $ to blow on 20 bullets that aren't accurate. I feel like calling Barnes. I shot every type bullet they have made for years and the MRX was the biggest dissapointment. Last edited on Thu Mar 22nd, 2007 03:52 AM by wyo300rum
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Nighthunter264WM
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I'm sure this has been considered, but have to mention that starting out around .050 off the lands can usually put you in the ballpark; where Barnes bullets are concerned, but if the weights vary that much, there's no way they can be a reliable long distance bullet!
I've been happy with the now obsolete XLC and the TSX, but for really long range hunting, I prefer SGK's. I made several 500+ yard shots last Whitetail season that landed exactly where I wanted them to go. My son used my rifle and made a 600 yd shot on a Whitetail doe that was facing him, and he put the SGK in the center of her neck and down she went. Also bear in mind that he doesn't shoot at the range and this is the first and only time he's shot my rifle.
I appreciate your experience and don't plan on buying any of those! Consistant weight is critical factor in any long range bullet.
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wyo300rum
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I think you and I are the only ones on line ! Who makes SGK's ? The TSX are pretty consistant when I weigh them no more than .4 grs. difference in the whole box. Noslers,Sierras and Hornady's are even better but not a better bullet for staying together , that's for sure. Last edited on Sun Apr 1st, 2007 07:08 AM by wyo300rum
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Nighthunter264WM
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SGK stands for Sierra Gameking. They are similar and fly like the Matchking - competition bullets, but hard to beat for long range precision hunting.
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wyo300rum
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I have some of the in 7mm , etc. I have some .30 cal. 150's. I think even in 165-180 up to 150 yds. they would blow up like all the others I've tried. The 150's except Barnes at 3650 fps. were like grenades out to 200 yds. I started using Barnes XBT, XLC and TSX again, in 180 gr. . Perfect.
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Nighthunter264WM
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I was impressed with the XLC bullets performance and still don't understand why Barnes is taking it off the market???? I just bought 500 so I don't run out anytime soon. I agree that the TSX's are hard to beat also. I don't push em much more than 3000 fps so I've never experienced the issues you're talking about. Good luck and good shooting! Mike
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wyo300rum
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Well me too now ! More accurate and seating the same as the die is set thay are faster too ! I've had excellent resultes on elk and deer with them. You get 50 for the price of 20 MRZ's too. They did shoot better once I cleaned the hell out of my barrel but shoot same load as TSX and the TSX was about .25 in better with every powder I tried. I'm stickin' with the TSX. Might try one of the MRX on a deer or elk this year to see how they do. They sure ain't solid copper though....
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wyo300rum
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I still have some XLC and XBT's left also. Haven't found them as accurate as the TSX though.
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Nighthunter264WM
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Found some TSX on Gunbroker recently at a pretty decent price. Just have to keep looking.
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wyo300rum
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No work today or did you get off early ? I've always been lazy and bought them from Cabelas.
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