| Posted: Thu Mar 15th, 2007 12:47 AM |
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Force_Recon_Marine
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I havent tried any Retumbo in the 7mm. It calls for it with some of the heavier bullets. I will have to work some up and see.
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| Posted: Fri Mar 16th, 2007 10:32 PM |
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42nd Post |
camotruck
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Hey RFM here's a string of questions for ya. What powder were you burning in the 257 that was too fast. how long is the BBl on it and what are you burning now. I think we've jumped threads now, between the heavy BBL, this, and my fireball thread.
WYO I'll take all the info you can give I thought about the High velocity up close impacts. I'm developing a load and havent settled on any one projectile yet if you guys have been there done that let me know. I'll deffinatly look into the barne bulletd I shoot them from my Knight muzzleloader and I think in my shotgun. I shoot the Remmington solid copper sabots, I don't know who makes the slugs for them.
Another guy that built one of theese ( I got the idea from him ) shoots ? 87gr. ? Barnes from his. I was also thinking of tring the 110 gr. Accubonds. I don't want to go too light I'm hopeing to make this my PBGR ( Primary Big Game Rifle ) Large wWitetail Big Mulies and hopefully someday some Pronghorn
Last edited on Fri Mar 16th, 2007 10:41 PM by camotruck
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| Posted: Fri Mar 16th, 2007 11:15 PM |
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wyo300rum
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Camo, that would make a hell of an antelope rig like i told FRM. I'm no expert by I can claim allot of data on animals which bullets work got at long and close distances. The only advice I would give, especially if you want to eat the animal is is you want to shoot alight weight bullet at high velocity, you out to shoot a Barnes X , TSX are pretty accurate, or maybe you could get away with an Accubond , Hornady Interbond or a Swift Scirroco. (I feel like I have said this 10 times on diifferent post, sorry) I tried the Interbonds and Accubond, Combined Techs and Scirrocos all on deer from 50 to 300 yds. with a 150 gr. going out the muzzle at 3660 fps. And thay all blew apart pretty much and ruined more meat than neccessary. Out of those, I had better luck with the Scirrocos , especialy when I shot the heavier 180 gr. at 3350 fps. It still looses half of it's weight. Like the Nosler Partition. It's an excellent bullet and accurate. Used it in my 7 mags for many years but it will loose the whole front of the bullet to the partition and weigh exacly half of the weight of the bullet . Weighed them many times. Weighed many Barnes x bullets too. Both recovered from game and sand at 100 yds. They loose from 0 to 10%. Usaully if one of the 4 pedals breaks off. Take it for what it's worth. Man, I should be a salesman for Barnes ! Last edited on Fri Mar 16th, 2007 11:16 PM by wyo300rum
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| Posted: Fri Mar 16th, 2007 11:21 PM |
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Force_Recon_Marine
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Camo, I started playing with it using some IMR4831. It has a 26" Barrel. I am now using around 90 grains of Retumbo.
Hey Wyo, I got care package #2 today.  Thanks again. If you shoot at super high velocity you have to have a harder bullet for up close stuff of you will have serious explosion instead of expansion. It will ruin a lot of meet.
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| Posted: Sun Mar 18th, 2007 10:15 PM |
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45th Post |
camotruck
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Thats a 257 STW right with 90 gr. of IMS 4831. I also have a 26 in. BBL and have ued IMR 4831 up to 65 gr. and it shoots well with a 90 gr. Sierra Gameking. Your using 90 gr.? I don't think I can get that much powder in a WSM case. I think max volume for this case is around 72 gr. I wonder how it would react that short fat case VS your long thin case. I need help with pressure signs so I know what to look for while buinding this load up to it's full potential.
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| Posted: Sun Mar 18th, 2007 10:22 PM |
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Force_Recon_Marine
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NO! That is with Retumbo. It is much slower than IMR4831. That much 4831 would be very dangerous. Just look for splits in the cases, any and all signs around the primer, opening the chamber after you fire, and you can check your case before you load and after you fire for length. Just anything you see out of the ordinary. If you see something strange or if you are unsure, take a pic and post it. If I cant answer it, someone on the board will. Just be careful with your loading. It takes a lot of loads to get it all just right but it only takes one to get it all wrong. Be safe.
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| Posted: Sun Mar 18th, 2007 11:17 PM |
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47th Post |
wyo300rum
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Trim your cases to length after firing once too. The first things I notice with to much pressure are the bolt hard to lift (sticky bolt). When that happens I always have a shiney spot on the case head (where stamp is). I will have a flattened primer. The indentation from the firing pin could be dished out (not smooth/flat) or even pierced/blown through. You can measure the base of the case above the head too. Compare it to an unfired case or look at the book for diameter. As a simple not scientic man, this is what I do. I don't push my loads unless the max listed shows no pressure signs at all. I've had too hot of loads even with some listed max loads in some rifles. Last edited on Sun Mar 18th, 2007 11:18 PM by wyo300rum
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| Posted: Mon Mar 19th, 2007 03:15 AM |
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camotruck
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so far everything looks ok with 65gr.of IMR 4831 the bo;t lifts the same. The primers lok ok. I did see a shiny spot on one but only one of my headstamps. I always put the fored cases back in the same spot in its box,so I can still go back and look and see what exactly I had loaded with that one and go from there. I think I can get just a little more 4831 in there.
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22nd, 2007 01:26 AM |
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Allister
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Hey All. I would like to share my .02 on this. If you dropped a 10lb rock or 15 lb, it would normally be the heavier one hitting first, because the wieght would be acted upon by gravity more than the light one. Because of more mass. If you want them, a feather and rock to hit at the same time, you would have to do it in a complete vacuum. The feather will hit much later than the rock, because of wind resistence That is why on the moon they hit at the same time. NO ATMOSPHERE to interact with them. The heavire bullet overtakes the lighter one from inertia, more mass moving along, takes more resistance to slow it down. I have also studied in ballistics, Forensic Investigation, and have noted the extreme resistance that air itself has on a projectile. It is amazing to see the numbers. I do not remember the formula of the top of my head! Sorry! t is interesting to note, as some have said, the time of flight acting on the trajectory, totally true, to an extent. If the lighter bullet flies along a long flight path, the wins resistance will affect ti so it losses speed before the starting speed cando what you want. If the light bullet strikes befoe this, then it is shooting seemingly flatter. The BC of the longer heavier bullet, plus the remaining speed from its mass, will let it fly further. BC makes a huge difference. If you are shooting a large caliber bullet with a large meplate, it will loss velocity very quickly the faster it is started out. Started fast, a bullet will loose speed fast, because of wind resistance. If I sound a little goofy here I am sorry, but you can laugh at me and get a could mood going with that beer in your hand. It was worth something reading this after all!!! Just my thoughts again, and if I need to get some more info or correct something or expound on anything, it will have to what until I get back from Brazil next week. Enjoy shooting and I Love to read this board, you guys rock, I love all the diversity on hear. lots of things to think about. And my wife doesnt roll her eyes and say OKAY DEAR< WHATEVER YOU SAY!!!!!
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22nd, 2007 01:37 AM |
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camotruck
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I'M NOT TOUCHING THIS ONE
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22nd, 2007 01:51 AM |
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billt
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Allister wrote: If you dropped a 10lb rock or 15 lb, it would normally be the heavier one hitting first, because the wieght would be acted upon by gravity more than the light one. If you want them, a feather and rock to hit at the same time, you would have to do it in a complete vacuum.
Thats a contradictory statement. If weight and mass regulates gravity, it's going to do it regardless of atmosphere. Bill T.
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22nd, 2007 01:57 AM |
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billt
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camotruck wrote: Like newton said an object in motion tends to stay in motion unless acted opon by an outside force. Our outside force is gravity and a bullet dropped from 3 ft high and a bullet fired from a gun at the same 3 ft hit the ground at the same time. In order to get the pill out there futher it needs to go faster because gravity is going to pull it down at the same rate no matter what speed it is launched.
Exactly correct. Bill T.
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22nd, 2007 01:59 AM |
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Force_Recon_Marine
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There have been some great theories, but I still stick to a lighter bullet will drop less. Any ballistics calculator will back this up as well. I am not looking to argue, We can all agree to disagree. Or agree.
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22nd, 2007 02:09 AM |
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54th Post |
wyo300rum
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Crap ! I don't know what to beleive about two things of different weight hitting the same time. I just did a lame test but as far as I can see I dropped a rubber band and a 300 RUM round at the same time. Everytime they hit the floor at the same time. I dropped the rubber band and a heavier yet folding allen wrench set. Same thing. As far a heavy/light bullets (I can't beleive I started all this) I know the heavier one will shoot farther. Fact. If it wasn't true, why would long range target shooter's use heavy bullets and not light ones. The peter out faster at long range. I like I said before , I think a 180 gr. at long range will have more kinetic energy than say a 130 gr. Thats what kills. Just my opinion though.... Last edited on Thu Mar 22nd, 2007 02:10 AM by wyo300rum
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22nd, 2007 02:15 AM |
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Force_Recon_Marine
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Just good conversation WYO. Here is a good example. Go to Barnes website and get the BC for a 647 grain .50 cal X-bullet. Get the BC for a 750 grain A-max. Go here and put the info in. 3050 f.p.s. out of the Barnes bullet. 2700 f.p.s. out of the Hornady. Then view the results. http://www.hornady.com/ballistics/ballistics_calculator.php
You can also do this with one brand of bullet in different weights. Try the V-max in .22. Just be sure you get the velocity difference in and the lighter bullets drop less according to Hornady's calculator.
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22nd, 2007 02:26 AM |
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billt
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A good example of this weight, gravity, mass, thing is when the Twin Towers collapsed. They weighed 500,000 tons each. They hit the ground at terminal velocity, or roughly 125 MPH., which is close to the same velocity a free fall parachutist reaches who weighs considerably less. Another example is NASA's "Vomit Comet" 707 it uses for astronaut traning. It flies a parabolic arc. At the top of the arc, with the aircraft at near stall speed, the pilot does a push over literally putting the aircraft into free fall for approx. 30 to 40 seconds. The passengers are weightless because they are falling as fast as the aircraft they're in which weighs considerably more. If weight governed gravity they would be plastered against the ceiling of the aircraft. This is also why astronauts are weightless in orbit. They along with the Shuttle, International Space Station, Soyuz, or whatever they are in are in constant free fall at the same rate. Their distance to the Earth remains constant because they are falling as fast as the Earth is curving, while traveling foward at 17,500 MPH, or 5 miles per second. These orbiting objects are much heavier than the occupants contained within them, yet all are in the same orbit at the same speed. Therefore the weightlessness. Bill T.
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22nd, 2007 02:33 AM |
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billt
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While BC is important in velocity retention of a given bullet, it can, and does confuse things. If you were shooting a .22 cal. bullet with a very high BC, and a .45 cal. round nose with a low BC and the time of flight to the target was identical, regardless of the distance, the trajectory would also be equal. Bill T.
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22nd, 2007 02:37 AM |
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Force_Recon_Marine
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The time of flight wouldnt be identical though. A 22-250 at 4000+f.p.s. or a .45 acp at 900 f.p.s.?
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22nd, 2007 02:38 AM |
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wyo300rum
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22nd, 2007 02:47 AM |
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wyo300rum
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I did the calulater two ways. 180 , 150 and 130 gr, all at same fps. and at 500 yds the 180 was 33.0 in, the 150 was 36.0 in and the 130 was 38.2 in. drop. Then I did it with realistic velocities 180 gr. at 3360 fps, 150 at 3650 fps. and 130 gr at 3750 fps. Never shot a 130 out of my rifle but the Barnes manual had them all the way up to 3882 fps. ! The 180 and 150gr. are what I have chronoed at listed max loads. So, I had the 180 gr. at 500 yds. 33.0 in., 150 gr. 29.3 in. and 130 gr. 29.1 in. . 4 in. difference. I would have liked to see 100 yd. increments out to 1000 yds. I bet around 700 yds. it would have evened out. Pretty cool stuff FRM . Thanks. I still think I'll give that 4 in. and hammer em with a 180 instead of a 130 gr. Will stay together better too. I went through that 3650 fps 150 gr. exploding grenade things before. Not including Barnes though.  Last edited on Thu Mar 22nd, 2007 02:49 AM by wyo300rum
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