| Posted: Fri Mar 23rd, 2007 04:07 PM |
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81st Post |
wyo300rum
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Like a .50 cal. ! FRM....
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23rd, 2007 04:09 PM |
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82nd Post |
klallen
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Force_Recon_Marine wrote: klallen wrote: 72COUPE, I don't know how may schools of thought we have going on this, but for me, I do not believe for a second that a light, low BC bullet is the way to go for consistent, extreme range success. >> klallen
The lighter bullet will not be as consistent by any means. Being lighter it is more affected by outside forces. But it still drops less.
It's all dependent on the distances of intended target we're using, FRM. There comes a point down range where the high velocity of a light bullet peters out, giving way to the benefits seen with the high ballistic coefficient of a heavy bullet. As flat as the light bullets trajectory is out to a given close range point, the heavier bullet will make this up and can present an even flatter arc of flight ... IF ... we stretch things far enough.
Just pulling from memory cause I'm at work right now but I think the 180 gr. BT from my Warbird with an initial velocity of 3500 fps catches up to the 125 gr. BT (4000 fps), around 575 yds, velocity wise. We know from this point on, with equal velocities, the 180 is flying flatter then the 125. With that 500 zero I was using in my first post, the 125 is noticabley flatter to 500. No doubt about it. But in that next 500 yds., it's caught and passed by the 180 at the 1000 yd. mark and sag behind considerably the farther we work out. It happens in any caliber comparison between bullet weight extremes.
I will submit, if ya never shoot a particular cartridge at extreme ranges (say 1100 - 2000+ yds.), then yes, for all practical purposes, lighter will be flatter. But there is always that point where it'll loose the trajectory battle. Chat with ya later. >> klallen
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23rd, 2007 05:41 PM |
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83rd Post |
Force_Recon_Marine
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Sounds good to me klallen. I'll go for that. 
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23rd, 2007 05:42 PM |
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84th Post |
Force_Recon_Marine
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wyo300rum wrote: Like a .50 cal. ! FRM....
A fifty works for me...
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23rd, 2007 06:11 PM |
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85th Post |
billt
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klallen wrote: For me, "time of flight" tells me very little, in the grand scheme of things. I guess I agree with the notion that in it's simpliest form, knowing "time of flight" can suggest the flattest trajectory, but knowing "how much flatter" is what's important to me. You gotta have the basics (bullet weight, bc and velocity) to get full understanding. >> klallen
I agree. I'm not much, if ever concerned about "how flat" a cartridge shoots. While velocity and "flat shooting" sells a lot of cartridges and guns, it has little to do with much of anything of value. The old Sharps Buffalo hunters proved that over 100 years ago with their long kills with cartridges that were anything but "flat shooting". The only thing time of flight relates to is drop, period. If all a shooter cares about is "how flat" his cartridge, gun combination shoots, then time of flight is important. Achieving a short time of flight is where everything else like Velocity, B.C. and everything else comes in. A lot of guys take a gun like a .300 Win. Mag or Weatherby, and shoot 150 gr. bullets in it. They see the ultra high muzzle velocity and are mesmerized by it. That to me is totally counterproductive of what the cartridge is designed to do. As you mentioned the lighter bullets bleed off their velocity much too fast, limiting range. It's amazing how many handloaders don't understand this. Ballistics in general isn't that complicated. My whole point of the time of flight issue is to better relate to velocity downrange of a heavier bullet with a good B.C. over a much lighter one with a higher muzzle velocity, but much slower downrange velocity allowing the heavier bullet to overtake it, thus achieving a overall shorter time of flight resulting in less overall drop from muzzle to target. Roy Weatherby argued for decades that a lighter bullet traveling at a higher velocity will achieve a greater impact. That may or may not be true, as shooters still argue about it today. The trick is to have the lighter bullet traveling faster well downrange. That's a feat that will never be accomplished. Bill T.
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23rd, 2007 08:25 PM |
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86th Post |
wyo300rum
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5 pages ! Hey Force, I used the caculator last night on the 130 and 180 gr bullet out to 1000 yds. but couldn't get on site. With the 130 gr. at 3750 fps and the 180 gr. at 3360 fps. The 180 gr. caught it at 700 yds and over took it at 800 yds. and at 1000yds. was (not at home with correct figures) I think the 130 gr. was a bout 10 in. lower. Then I did both 130 and 180 gr. at 3360 fps. Amazing the 130 gr. petered out way faster. at 200 yds it was already 2.0 in lower. I don't remember the 500 yd. but the 1000 yd. the 130 gr. was 44.0 in. lower. That tells me the lighter bullet looses velocity faster right there. I don't know what the fps differences are at those yardages but I bet they are substantial. Then back to kenetic energy. The 180 gr. with it's higher velocity remaining and heavier weight, is going to penetrate more and have more muzzle energy left. I caculated a 22-250 with a 55 gr. bullet at 3700 fps. At 1000 yds. if I remember correctly dropped 444.0 in. ! it was over 200 in. more than the 180 gr. at 3360 fps. What's that tell you ? My last reply.  Last edited on Fri Mar 23rd, 2007 08:27 PM by wyo300rum
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23rd, 2007 08:34 PM |
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87th Post |
Force_Recon_Marine
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Apple to oranges. Try it with the .50 cal out to 1000 with the 750 A-max and the 647 X-bullet. Riddle me this; If you fire two identicle rifles with one heavy (slow) and one light (fast) bullet strait toward the ground which will get there first?  Last edited on Fri Mar 23rd, 2007 08:38 PM by Force_Recon_Marine
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23rd, 2007 10:11 PM |
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88th Post |
wyo300rum
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Try it with your .50 cal ! We are talking long range not 3 ft. I wait, I replied again. 
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| Posted: Sat Mar 24th, 2007 12:40 AM |
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89th Post |
camotruck
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R ollingO n theF loor L aughing M y A ss Off
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| Posted: Sat Mar 24th, 2007 02:42 AM |
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90th Post |
wyo300rum
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Camo, found out this morning on a credit card hit That I got drawn for Ariz. archery elk . 3 yrs. in a row now. I don't now if it is for bull or cow. Can't get through on the phone line and no results posted online yet. So far a cow elk and deer tag in Wy. (Reg. F is 100 % draw for deer) And for sure will at least draw a gen. deer tag in Utah. (maybe a bighorn too...) and a archery elk tag in Ariz.. Still have Nev, deer, New Mex. deer, Az. deer and Cal. deer,elk and antelope to draw. Point's only for elk,bighorn and ant. in Nev. . Pts. only for deer and elk in Col. and pt. only for ant. in Az. (have 11 pts. now) . busy time of the year !
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| Posted: Sat Mar 24th, 2007 06:42 AM |
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91st Post |
camotruck
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congrats I need to get my stuff together and start putting in for points if nothing else
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| Posted: Sat Mar 24th, 2007 03:40 PM |
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92nd Post |
wyo300rum
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You still have time to apply for Nev. 4/17,Col. 4/4.N. Mex. 4/7 but no points, Az. deer and bighorn 6/13. Wy. leftover ant. and deer late July. Deadline was 3/15 for deer and elk was 1/31. Ut. is past also.
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