| Posted: Thu May 19th, 2005 12:54 PM |
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21st Post |
HondoJohn6508
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Fiftydriver wrote: Hondo,
Yes, I use the Holland brakes.
Let me know if you come up, we can go out and bust some rocks at 1K if you like!!
Good Shooting!!
Kirby Allen(50)
Kirby,
Busting rocks at 1K sounds like a pleasant past-time. Now where is Ft. Shaw, MT.? Inquiring minds want to know!
Ol' John
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| Posted: Thu May 19th, 2005 03:14 PM |
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22nd Post |
Fiftydriver
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Hondo,
Find Great Falls in North Central Montana and Fort Shaw is about 15 miles to the west. Actually I live about 3 miles north of Sun River which is a bit closer to Great Falls then Fort Shaw but my address is Ft. Shaw.
Good Shooting!!
Kirby Allen(50)
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| Posted: Sat May 21st, 2005 12:58 AM |
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23rd Post |
HondoJohn6508
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50,
I contacted Richard at Wildcat Bonded Bullets today with a bunch of questions on the 6.5 bullets of 120 & 125 grains. Nice feller and enjoyed our conversation. He is going to send me some bullets to check out and he takes care of the CAD/USD conversion with regards to payment. I hope you two get lined out and spend some time shooting. I will be most interested to get the BC data and the length on the bullets so I can compute the proper twist on the barrel I am going to use on the '03 Springfield action for my extra=long range varminter, going with the 6.5-06 AI. My apologies to you for the cartridge selection. His bullets sound like just the ticket!!!
Ol' John
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| Posted: Sat May 21st, 2005 01:13 AM |
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24th Post |
Fiftydriver
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Hondo,
Why apologize for the cartridge selection. First rifle I ever built was on a commercial Mauser 98 that my wife got me for a Christmas pressent. Added a Boyds laminated varminter stock and a 6.5mm barrel blank that I chambered to 6.5-06 AI. Damn thing has shot 1/2 moa from the get go.
Great round and offers a performance/recoil ratio that is very hard to beat.
You will be happy with the Wildcat Bullets if you give them a try.
For the 120 to 125 I would say the 1-10 twist would be perfect but personally I would go with a 1-9 twist just to allow use of the 140 gr class bullets if the desire ever came up.
Good Shooting!!
Kirby Allen(50)
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| Posted: Sat May 21st, 2005 03:23 AM |
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25th Post |
HondoJohn6508
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Kirby,
Thanks bud! I am going with a cut-rifle barrel from Dan Pederson. As you know with the cut rifle system, you can dial in whatever twist you want. If the modified Greenhill formula calls for a 1 in 9.75" twist, ol' Dan can dial it in. I am seriously considering a SS barrel, 28" with a MD of about .85, straight taper. Do you think with the 120, a 3600fps could be achieved? I haven't played with the LFAD program yet, I am just thinking out loud. Your thoughts would be appreciated.
Ol' John
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| Posted: Sat May 21st, 2005 03:09 PM |
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26th Post |
Fiftydriver
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John,
Well from what I have seen with my 6.5-06 AI and a few others I have built using Lilja 3 groove barrels I would say 3600 fps may be a bit high for a velocity goal.
I will admit though that most of the 6.5-06 AIs I have built have been on 26" pipes, one with a 27" and with those 3400 fps was about tops with max loads using Rl-22 which seemed to be about the best powder in these rifles.
Every barrel is different as you well know so its hard to tell what top velocity you will get.
If I would have to guess, I would say to get a legit 3600 fps with a 120 gr pill you would need to jump up to the 264 Win Mag level of case capacity.
Even at 3400 fps with a 120 gr Ballistic Tip you will have some very impressive ballistic and terminal performance on deer size game for sure. Thats the beauty of the 6.5mm rounds. The bullets are so efficent ballistically that the fly flatter then most would ever believe anyway.
Let us know how the project works out for you, sounds like a good one!!
Kirby Allen(50)
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| Posted: Sun May 22nd, 2005 09:31 PM |
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27th Post |
HondoJohn6508
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Kirby,
Thanks for the feedback.........and yes after doing a little further research the 3600fps is rather optimistic. But, as you stated, 3400fps is moving along rather well and certainly fast enough to " keep the flies off the BBQ'd brisket"!
I went back and looked again at the pic you posted of your rifle(really nice). Your choice of contour on the barrel intriges me and certainly the aesthetics are most pleasing. If you have another pic of just the barrel would you be so kind as to post it? Also the dimension data. I am thinking that would really look nice on the '03 Springfield action that I will be using.
One more question........do you "moly" your bullets? More questions latter I am sure!
Thanks, neighbor!
Ol' John
PS.......any data yet on the 6.5 AM?????? Interesting...yes--most interesting!!!!
Last edited on Sun May 22nd, 2005 09:55 PM by HondoJohn6508
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Mark Twain said it right - "There is no such thing as too much good whiskey."
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| Posted: Tue May 24th, 2005 06:37 AM |
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28th Post |
TasunkaWitko
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if i might jump in here, i have been toying with the idea of a semi-custom 6.5 for a couple years now. it started out as a simple 6.5x55, and about a year ago, i decided to go with the 6.5/06. now you guys are waving this AI in front of my nose!
i think i remember seeing that the AI adds 125fps or so to the MV. for the casual loader/shooter/hunter, would it matter enough to justify the fireforming and other extra work that goes into it? my intended barrel will be 24 inches long, and will be either a lilja or an MRC. the action will be MRC as well.
if spending a day at the range doing a little bit of fireforming will get me an extra 125fps, i might go for it.
any other pros or cons?
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| Posted: Tue May 24th, 2005 03:48 PM |
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29th Post |
Fiftydriver
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Tas,
From the AI rifles I have built in the past I would say the 125 fps velocity increase would be slightly conservative compared to what you would actually get. At least this is what I am seeing comparing 25-06 vs 25-06 AI and 280 Rem vs 280 AI. Its more like 150 fps and often more with some combinations.
With a 24" barrel I would say you will see 125 to 150 fps gain over a standard chambering.
Now is it worth it....
That is up to you. The AI rounds offer more to the handloader, shooter and hunter then just added velocity. They are more efficent with the sharper shoulder, they basically eliminate case stretching so if your using a load that will not open up your primer pockets, cases will last much longer and need less trimming for less bench time.
They are also, on average a more accurate design. I do not put a great deal of stock in this as I personally feel its the rifle and its internal machining that will make the accuracy potential come to life but there are some that say the AI rounds are more accurate then the standard.
Personally I feel this is because your comparing a standard chamber to a custom chamber.
Yes fireforming is a bit of a pain and this is why I only recommend a Wildcat that needs fireforming for a big game rifle or any other use where there is no need for a large volume of formed cases. For a big game rifle you can form 50 rounds(basically during the break in process) and have enough brass to last several years or even a lifetime with a big game rifle. For a varmint rifle the 6.5-06 would be a better option but for big game I would take the AI version any day over the standard.
You will get suprisingly close to 264 Win Mag performance with less recoil and muzzle blast as well as not needing a 26" barrel to get this velocity, espeically with the 100 to 130 gr bullet weights. With the heavy 140 and heavier bullets the Win Mag will obviously have an edge but there is not much a 6.5-06 AI can not do with a 120 gr Ballistic Tip on game up to 400 lbs.
Personally the AI would get my vote but both are great rounds.
Good SHooting!!
Kirby Allen(50)
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| Posted: Wed May 25th, 2005 03:40 PM |
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30th Post |
TasunkaWitko
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Kirby -
Thanks for the great information on the AI, especially the other benefits besides velocity. I think that I might go with this option, the benefits just seem to make sense, especially when I want a non-magnum cartridge. i also like the idea of extending case life. i learned to reload on a LEE LOADER, which also was good for extending case life, so i am naturally pre-disposed to something with these kinds of benefits!
I was wondering if you could tell me how difficult it is to get reloading dies for this wildcat chambering? also, is thee any "black magic" to fireforming cases for the cartridge, or can one simply load up the 6.5/06, go to the range and start shooting?
thanks for the info!
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| Posted: Wed May 25th, 2005 07:40 PM |
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31st Post |
Fiftydriver
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Tas.
The dies are easy to get, RCBS and Redding both make them. I have a set of RCBS but have ordered in several set of Redding sets and would recommend them over the RCBS as they produced better quality ammo and actually cost less.
To fireform cases, this is my proceedure.
1. Buy some 25-06 brass
2. Run them through the 6.5-06 AI die to expend the necks to 6.5mm. No need to actually full length size at this point just want to take out any dinks in the necks.
3. Debur both inside and outside of the case mouth, especially pay attention to the inside to make sure there are no burrs.
4. Find a good load for fireforming. Your gunsmith will generally supply you with this data. Or you can simply use data for the 25-06. Example. If you use a 100 gr bullet to fire form, you can simply use a medium to upper load for the 25-06 with the same bullet weight in the 6.5-06 fireforming rounds.
5. Load the ammo and fire and out pops a sexy sharp shouldered 6.5-06 AI case.
6. Trim all to same length and load with full tilt 6.5-06 AI loads.
You will notice that I do not trim virgin cases. The reason is because these case will expand and grow at slightly different rates. If you trim before fireforming, more them likely you will need to do it again after forming. I personally find case trimming busy work and the least amount of trimming the better so I trim after the cases are formed and after that trimming will not be needed very often.
Another trick is that you can simply take a bullet like the 6.5mm 100 gr Ballistic Tip and load it directly into unexpanded 25-06 brass. This will save you the expanding step and you will never know the difference when you seat the bullet with the solid base of the B. Tip. Really speeds things up.
Good Shooting!!
Kirby Allen(50)
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| Posted: Fri May 27th, 2005 01:53 AM |
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32nd Post |
TasunkaWitko
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thanks for posting this procedure; it looks easy enough so that even "i" can do it!
i really can't think of any reason not to do it, and it would add a little something to my project, so i think i will persue the 6.5/06AI as the goal for my project.
since i want this to be something in the class approaching semi-custom and want to make it a nice rifle to pass down in the family, i am considering components that are a little bit out of my price range. true, i will have to save up and this will drag the process out, but i believe that in the end, it will be a rifle to be proud of. it also looks like i can make a lot of it a "montana" rifle if i use and MRC action and MRC or lilja barrel. i ahve been strongly considering a stock from erengeti, but they are a little TOO far out of my league, unless i go with the zephyr stock that they offer. with that in mind, i am taking a look at accurate innovations in rapid city, which sorta fits in my theme since i lived very close to their for part of my life and, to be honest, the black hills belong in montana anyway!
do you (or anyone else who might be reading this) have an opinion on these components, or suggestions for possible alternatives? i have pretty much written off military actions such as mausers or springfields, but might consider a commercial action. same with the barrel; douglas barrels look pretty good.
suggestions and opinions would be welcome.
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| Posted: Fri May 27th, 2005 02:14 PM |
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33rd Post |
Fiftydriver
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Tas,
The MRC receivers make very classy rifles for sure. I have built a couple rifles using them and while they will not run with a trued Rem 700 receiver in the accuracy department they are very quality for a traditional big game rifle and will generally produce 1/2 moa accuracy if fitted correctly.
Again I would lean toward the Lilja but that is because I lean toward the extreme accuracy side of the equation. I feel the extra price is well worth it in the end result. The MRC barrel will certainly produce a fine rifle again if fitted correctly. Hell, I have yet to have an A&B barrel not shoot 1/2 moa that I have fitted. Some foul terribly but they have all shot very well with a clean bore so its really the fitting of the barrel compared to the barrel for a general big game rifle.
Good Shooting!!
Kirby Allen(50)
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| Posted: Fri Mar 10th, 2006 03:12 AM |
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34th Post |
oicme2
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New to the board, not only as member but as well as how things work.
Looking for source for 6.5-06AI reloading dies.
Please drop me a line at llwsr@ncn.net thanks
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| Posted: Fri Mar 17th, 2006 10:35 AM |
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35th Post |
rifleman
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I have a 6.5-06 and my son also has one. It is one of my favorite rifles I own. I am going to start a new 6.5 project called a 264 RLB soon from another forum. It is based off a 6.8 SPC Rem case. I am in the process of having a barrel made in a .243AI so I am pressed for the cash right now.
Here is a pic of the cartridge next to a 7.62X39mm.
I also thought about the 6.5-06AI. So many calibers and too little money. One day though!
Jude
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| Posted: Sun Dec 20th, 2009 01:31 PM |
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36th Post |
AlexHarpersGdaughter
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I will tell my grandpa Alex Harper about the showing his work on this forum. He is still working and would love to hear from his friends and business partners. Thank you (Alex) and so do I. Althea - Alex's Granddaughter Last edited on Sun Dec 20th, 2009 01:36 PM by AlexHarpersGdaughter
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| Posted: Sun Dec 20th, 2009 01:40 PM |
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37th Post |
fryboy
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AlexHarpersGdaughter wrote:
I will tell my grandpa Alex Harper about the showing his work on this forum. He is still working and would love to hear from his friends and business partners. Thank you (Alex) and so do I. Althea - Alex's Granddaughter
hola amiga ! ( ermm miss althea)and welcome to the board ! ur grandpa is welcome as well ( we love work type stories and foto's !! tho i myself have problems posting foto's lolz) all that aside happy holidays and other assorted seasonal greetings !
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