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nitis
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Posted: 11 August 2008 01:06 AM |
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My dad wants to dust off the old 721 in 300 h&h this year talking about gettin a new scope and everything. He quit using it ever since he had a casing come apart on him basically the base came off leaving the casing in the chamber.
My grandfather used to load for him and he has since passed. He has several boxes ( like 6or 7) of ammo dated 1992 question is we dont know how many times these cases have been loaded and dont want to wind up with another seperated case in the field.
Has anyone else experienced this? Is this commin in the 721 or 300hh? Is there anything to look for on the brass that could give a sign as to weakness? He is probably just going to buy some factory ammo to be safe but at 50 bucks a box for the least expensive that is tough to swallow when you have that much ammo that could be used righ there at home.
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miestro_jerry
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Posted: 11 August 2008 01:35 AM |
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With Magnum cartridges, loading them over and over again will stress them to the point of fatigue. If they are anealed after each use with heavy loads, that should solve the problem for a while. But I go about 5 or 6 reloads with my 300 RUM and then buy new brass.
At this moment, it seems thatMidway is out of stock on 300 H&H brass. Midsouth has some in stock.
My Uncle Walter's 375 H&H only got a couple of reloads out of each case, because he loaded max loads and this was back in the 60s when some brass didn't hold up well.
Jerry
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Jmatson
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Posted: 11 August 2008 03:43 AM |
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One thing great about the 300 and the 375 H&H magnums is the uniform powder ignition and good accuracy associated those long slender cases. they also feed out of the magazine better than the more bottle neck cases. All that being said, those nice long slender case stretch more than the bottle necks after repeated firing and resizing. I have two 375's and a 404 Jeffery and I watch case OAL and apparent head separation. To check for head separation all you have to do is take a long pointed tool like an ice pick and bend about an 1/8 of an inch of the tip over to 90 degrees. Insert this new tool into the case down to the bottom of the case, running the tool up and down while rotating the case you may feel small ridge a about 1/4 of an inch up from the bottom this is the first sign of case separation.
Hope this helps!!
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nitis
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Posted: 11 August 2008 03:49 AM |
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| ok this is all somewhat helpful but all this ammo is loaded can you tell anysigns from the oout side?
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miestro_jerry
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Posted: 11 August 2008 04:59 AM |
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Feel the case, look at it with a magnifying glass. If you can get some materials to do Magna Flux testing that would help a lot.
Myself, when I suspect a case of being bad, I throw it in my recycle bucket.
Jerry
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Timberghozt
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| Joined: | 11 February 2005 |
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Posted: 11 August 2008 12:23 PM |
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nitis wrote: My dad wants to dust off the old 721 in 300 h&h this year talking about gettin a new scope and everything. He quit using it ever since he had a casing come apart on him basically the base came off leaving the casing in the chamber.
My grandfather used to load for him and he has since passed. He has several boxes ( like 6or 7) of ammo dated 1992 question is we dont know how many times these cases have been loaded and dont want to wind up with another seperated case in the field.
Has anyone else experienced this? Is this commin in the 721 or 300hh? Is there anything to look for on the brass that could give a sign as to weakness? He is probably just going to buy some factory ammo to be safe but at 50 bucks a box for the least expensive that is tough to swallow when you have that much ammo that could be used righ there at home.
This is not common in any rifle nitis..The 300 H&H is a excellent cartridge,(has nothing to do with its date of origin).My father had reloads in his 32-20 that seperated the case head His problem was the fella who loaded them and gave em to him,forgot how many times that brass had been run through a die..After one came apart on him,he tossed the ammo,took his 92 Winchester to the gunsmith and had it removed..
The 721 is an excellent action as well.I hope he does start shooting that 300 H&H,its a legend in the cartridge community and well worth shooting and hunting with
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bea175
Board Founder
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Posted: 19 August 2008 02:48 PM |
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| I just purchased a 300 H&H reamer and will build my next magnum in this cal.
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Innovative
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Posted: 31 August 2008 01:26 AM |
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nitis,
The only thing that can cause headspace separation is pushing the case shoulder back too far when reloading. Visit our website, and you can find everything that is unique to reloading belted magnum calibers. Unlike factory ammo, your handloads need to headspace on the shoulder.
- Larry
Last edited on 31 August 2008 01:27 AM by Innovative
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miestro_jerry
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Posted: 31 August 2008 02:33 AM |
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Larry,
I like your website, but you don't have anything for my 300 Ultra Mag. Many long years ago, I saw case separation in the heavy calibers that was not due to over sizing, it was a combination of metal fatigue and work hardening. Today I haven't seen this problem with modern brass and reasonable loading practices. I just don't trust old brass if I don't know it's history, but I have been reloading some brass many times over, probably 20 years or so, while others have primer pocket enlarging and some other problems with multiple reloads.
I do like many of the article on your website, good help.
Where in Florida do you cold weather hunt, I would like to come down and join you in December or January on such a hunt. :)
Thanks,
Jerry
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Innovative
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Posted: 31 August 2008 03:43 AM |
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Jerry,
I'm glad you enjoy our website. I'll be adding to it as I get more spare time. I don't shoot the 300 Ultra Mag, but I am very familiar with case separations. 99% of the time case separations are caused by pushing the shoulder back too far during resizing. There's only one way to harden cartridge cases ..... stretching it, and that can be avoided. Non-belted calibers don't have the same problems as belted magnums when reloading. However, the 300 Ultra mag has some unique problems of its own.
Enlarged primer pockets are another issue, and also easy to solve.
My cold weather hunting is in PA or farther north. I'd like to find a "hot spot" to hunt in Kansas or Nebraska - anywhere the whitetail are extra large, and the trip is affordable.
- Larry
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miestro_jerry
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Posted: 31 August 2008 04:11 AM |
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Larry,
I like in the Ohio River Valley, the Ohio side we are restricted to deer slugs, the WV side you can use rifles, not too far away is Pa. Great hunting in all three states, plus a Cabela is in the northern panhandle of WV, in the middle of all three states.
In my county in Ohio, I am allowed 7 deer, it WV, my take on my property is pretty much what I want to hunt. In Pa, I generally get one. In all three states you can find the legendary monster bucks.
As to cases, stretching is one factor that if you tune your loads back a little the problem isn't too bad, work harden can be undone with annealing, but I have seen brass that came from the 40s and 50s that people pull out of their barns some where, as well as one of my neighbors was using brass that was classified as balloon. Modern brass if take care of, will load generally forever, but my Ultra Mag is meant to be a very powerful cartridge and I do load them to what I consider to be max, it does stretch.
I have the primer pocket problem with 5.56/223 in my AR, but not in 223 single shot carbine. My solution is nail polish on the primer.
Jerry
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Innovative
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Posted: 31 August 2008 02:22 PM |
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Jerry,
Brass will only stretch significantly if it has some place to move (like excessive headspace clearance).
Nail polish may waterproof your primers to some small degree, but it won't help keep them tight and secure. Loose primers can be caused by several problems.
-- Defective primers (cup may be too thin). Try using CCI primers, because they're known to have harder and thicker cups than other primers.
-- Don't recut your primer pockets on high pressure loads, especially if you're already getting loose primers.
-- Try using a different powder (one with a slower burning rate), verify your load data, and be sure your load is safe in your rifle. There's no need to make wimpy loads either.
-- If you debur your flash holes - don't overdo it. Some of these cutters can cut a large taper in the web of your case if used incorrectly.
-- Use the best quality brass you can find. If the case heads are too soft you will get loose primers.
The new ultra mags and short mags have EXTREMELY high chamber pressure. Expect to get loose primers with these calibers if you always load them at maximum levels.
- Larry
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miestro_jerry
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Posted: 31 August 2008 03:09 PM |
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Larry,
When I use nail polish as a sealant, it does glue the primers in. I know exactly what you are saying, but my middle son and I have done this little trick over the last 20 years to our brass with the enlarged primer pockets. It works for us.
Jerry
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Innovative
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Posted: 31 August 2008 03:53 PM |
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Jerry,
I just mentioned those tips to let you know there are "better" ways to keep your primers tight. If you create the slightest weak spot around primers, you might experience some serious gas blowby one day. It only has to happen once .... and you'll never forget it, because 60,000 PSI comes at you pretty fast.
- Larry
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wheezengeezer
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Posted: 31 August 2008 05:24 PM |
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| i blew a primer into the magazine well on my FN M98 in .264/06.didnt even notice the hot gas.some rifles are not as good at handling it.if i were bringing the 721 in 300 H&H out of retirement i would pull the bullets from the old ammo and start with fresh cases.headspacing on the belt and not on the shoulder will cause premature case failure.necksizing may work even better.for the longest case life,size the cases to where the bolt closes with a bit of resistance.for dangerous game you will want them to drop in like factory ammo.
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miestro_jerry
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Posted: 31 August 2008 10:49 PM |
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I had some surplus ammo from Greece that the primers would blow out once in a while in my Mauser 98K. It really wasn't anything bad, but I know with a 300 Mag in a bolt gun or even a hot 223 in M16/AR-15 you will know there is a problem.
Jerry
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Innovative
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Posted: 31 August 2008 11:21 PM |
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Jerry ..........
"Usually" when a primer blows, it just cuts the surface of the bolt. Even that's not a good situation, especially when it's so easy to avoid altogether.
nitis ..........
You can always pull the bullets and inspect the cases. Then just reseat the bullets. It would be a learning experience, and you'll have complete confidence in your handloads. Be sure to headspace on the shoulder, or your case separations will continue.
- Innovative
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wheezengeezer
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Posted: 1 September 2008 05:28 AM |
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nitis wrote: My dad wants to dust off the old 721 in 300 h&h this year talking about gettin a new scope and everything. He quit using it ever since he had a casing come apart on him basically the base came off leaving the casing in the chamber.
My grandfather used to load for him and he has since passed. He has several boxes ( like 6or 7) of ammo dated 1992 question is we dont know how many times these cases have been loaded and dont want to wind up with another seperated case in the field.
Has anyone else experienced this? Is this commin in the 721 or 300hh? Is there anything to look for on the brass that could give a sign as to weakness? He is probably just going to buy some factory ammo to be safe but at 50 bucks a box for the least expensive that is tough to swallow when you have that much ammo that could be used righ there at home.
looking at the origional question;your cases are questionable.seperations may happen.if you can reload,new cases and detail as to the the sizing is in order.if not buy factory ammo.get it sighted in.it only takes one shot to kill a deer.enjoy the old gun.
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miestro_jerry
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Posted: 1 September 2008 06:09 AM |
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With the 300 H&H, it only takes one to kill an Elk.
Enjoy the Mag! Become one with it.
Jerry
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